BoxRec

fergusg wrote:Here’s a list of common Mayweather Pacquiao opponents:
• Juan Manuel Marquez - beat 3 times in his prime (accounting for judging error of 10-7 instead of 10-6)
• Shane Mosley (put on his ass)
• Miguel Cotto (brutalised)
• Ricky Hatton (coma)
• Oscar De La Hoya (brutalised)

Let’s review these fights in context, without analysing the results:


Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

Shane Mosley – clearly washed up by Mayorga fight. Still had Floyd hanging on for grim life.

Miguel Cotto - a 1lb catchweight is "highly controversial"? What did that make the 2lb catchweight in Floyd vs Alvarez? Idiot. Brutalised by Manny, pounded Floyd on the ropes in a fight he believes he won.

Ricky Hatton - Was outside his weight class. Only had 1 ww fight prior to Floyd and took a pounding from Collazo. Impressed after Floyd by stopping Malignaggi. cited the hugher weightclass as reason for losing to Floyd, stated he was still the best 140lber in the planet before getting ktfo vs Pacquiao in his prime weight class.

Oscar De La Hoya - past it for both. Split Decision Floyd... beat into retirement by Pac. No catchweight for either. Oscar was a-side dictating terms.


Juan Manuel Marquez – coaxed into a 144lb catchweight that Marquez was well under and Floyd couldn't make. Floyd missed weight, Marquez accounted for the 2-weight class jump by eating cake, showing up with a burrito belly.

Ricky_ wrote:Brut / kbb / badhusker / nate jr / fergus


How many accounts does this Floyd Fanatic need?


"Dear floyd, I wrote you but you still ain't callin, I left my cell my home and my pager across the bottom..."

KBB wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Brut / kbb / badhusker / nate jr / fergus


How many accounts does this Floyd Fanatic need?


"Dear floyd, I wrote you but you still ain't callin, I left my cell my home and my pager across the bottom..."

Aww come on Rick, you know that's not me.

fergusg wrote:Here’s a list of common Mayweather Pacquiao opponents:
• Juan Manuel Marquez
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Ricky Hatton
• Oscar De La Hoya

Let’s review these fights in context, without analysing the results:

Manny Pacquiao:
The last time Pacquiao defeated Marquez in 2011; this was a catch-weight fight. De La Hoya, Mosley & Cotto were all natural 154lb-ers, but they had to agree to face the Filipino legend at a stipulated weight that was outside their natural habitat (i.e. lower than their normal weight). Ricky Hatton was past-his-prime by the time he faced Pacquiao.

Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

Shane Mosley – At the time he faced Floyd, he was ranked third in Ring Magazine’s top 100 pound-for-pound fighters (ahead of fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Wladimir Klitschko and Sergio Martinez), as well as the number two welterweight (only behind Floyd) and in his previous fight captured the WBA 147lb title from Antonio Margarito (who himself had only just became the first man to defeat Miguel Cotto).

Miguel Cotto - Prior to facing Floyd Mayweather Jr. his only losses were against Antonio Margarito & Manny Pacquiao, which were both highly controversial in nature (i.e. the loaded glove scandal and the catch-weight stipulation)... and he easily avenged one of those losses and subsequently claimed Sergio Martinez’s WBC & lineal middleweight crowns.

Ricky Hatton - An undefeated two-division champion, Ring Magazine’s 2005 fighter of the year, boasted a victory over the Hall-of-Famer Kostya Tszyu, (at the time of the Mayweather bout) held the Ring magazine's World Light Welterweight crown and had been ranked in the pound-for-pound top ten for three consecutive years prior to facing Floyd.

Oscar De La Hoya - At the time of the Mayweather fight, was ranked by Ring Magazine as one of the top three 154lb-ers in the world, he also held the WBC light middleweight crown… and apart from the Hopkins defeat, his only losses were against Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad, which were highly controversial in nature and by razor thin decisions. At the time of their fight, this was the most lucrative boxing match ever, because this was one of the most eagerly-anticipated bouts in the history of the sport.

Juan Manuel Marquez – Mayweather decked the 148lb Mexican, landed 59% of his punches and avoided 88% of the shots thrown by the Mexican legend… en route to scoring a lop-sided 120-107 victory. The year prior, only a knockdown caused Juan to drop a split decision to Pacquiao. The Mexican subsequently dropped another highly dubious decision at welterweight to Manny, which the majority of the boxing media thought he deserved to win, before eventually gaining his revenge and KO’ing the Filipino inside six rounds in 2012.

When Mayweather defeated Mosley and De La Hoya, it was more than a year before Pacquiao did, but fans of the Filipino legend are extremely proud of these victories. Also, when Floyd defeated Miguel Cotto, Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley, there were no catch-weight stipulations, which meant he fought those guys in their natural habitat... they weren't forced to gain or lose weight.

Thoughts? :??

IKSRTFO wrote:

fergusg wrote:Here’s a list of common Mayweather Pacquiao opponents:
• Juan Manuel Marquez
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Ricky Hatton
• Oscar De La Hoya

Let’s review these fights in context, without analysing the results:

Manny Pacquiao:
The last time Pacquiao defeated Marquez in 2011; this was a catch-weight fight. De La Hoya, Mosley & Cotto were all natural 154lb-ers, but they had to agree to face the Filipino legend at a stipulated weight that was outside their natural habitat (i.e. lower than their normal weight). Ricky Hatton was past-his-prime by the time he faced Pacquiao.

Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

Shane Mosley – At the time he faced Floyd, he was ranked third in Ring Magazine’s top 100 pound-for-pound fighters (ahead of fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Wladimir Klitschko and Sergio Martinez), as well as the number two welterweight (only behind Floyd) and in his previous fight captured the WBA 147lb title from Antonio Margarito (who himself had only just became the first man to defeat Miguel Cotto).

Miguel Cotto - Prior to facing Floyd Mayweather Jr. his only losses were against Antonio Margarito & Manny Pacquiao, which were both highly controversial in nature (i.e. the loaded glove scandal and the catch-weight stipulation)... and he easily avenged one of those losses and subsequently claimed Sergio Martinez’s WBC & lineal middleweight crowns.

Ricky Hatton - An undefeated two-division champion, Ring Magazine’s 2005 fighter of the year, boasted a victory over the Hall-of-Famer Kostya Tszyu, (at the time of the Mayweather bout) held the Ring magazine's World Light Welterweight crown and had been ranked in the pound-for-pound top ten for three consecutive years prior to facing Floyd.

Oscar De La Hoya - At the time of the Mayweather fight, was ranked by Ring Magazine as one of the top three 154lb-ers in the world, he also held the WBC light middleweight crown… and apart from the Hopkins defeat, his only losses were against Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad, which were highly controversial in nature and by razor thin decisions. At the time of their fight, this was the most lucrative boxing match ever, because this was one of the most eagerly-anticipated bouts in the history of the sport.

Juan Manuel Marquez – Mayweather decked the 148lb Mexican, landed 59% of his punches and avoided 88% of the shots thrown by the Mexican legend… en route to scoring a lop-sided 120-107 victory. The year prior, only a knockdown caused Juan to drop a split decision to Pacquiao. The Mexican subsequently dropped another highly dubious decision at welterweight to Manny, which the majority of the boxing media thought he deserved to win, before eventually gaining his revenge and KO’ing the Filipino inside six rounds in 2012.

When Mayweather defeated Mosley and De La Hoya, it was more than a year before Pacquiao did, but fans of the Filipino legend are extremely proud of these victories. Also, when Floyd defeated Miguel Cotto, Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley, there were no catch-weight stipulations, which meant he fought those guys in their natural habitat... they weren't forced to gain or lose weight.

Thoughts? :??

So let me get this straight. Mosley was a natural 154lber yet you don't refer to that when mentioning Floyd's victory over him?

Straight bias

fergusg wrote: De La Hoya, Mosley & Cotto were all natural 154lb-ers, but they had to agree to face the Filipino legend at a stipulated weight that was outside their natural habitat (i.e. lower than their normal weight).

hurricanemitch14 wrote:Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

tiny_acres wrote:

hurricanemitch14 wrote:Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

Not to split hairs but the catch weight was 145 lbs.

Ricky_ wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:

hurricanemitch14 wrote:Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

Not to split hairs but the catch weight was 145 lbs.

no it wasn't, it was fought at the 147lb Welterweight limit.

Pacquiao vs Cotto was a 145lb catchweight.

Ricky_ wrote:A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

1. Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


2. Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

3. Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

4. Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

KBB wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

1. Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


2. Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

3. Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

4. Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

1. Didn't Shane have another bad performance vs Mora before Manny faced him?? Regardless, Floyd had the much better version especially since Manny and Roach turned down facing Shane at 142 even though Mosley agreed to it.

2. Cotto was a battered and bruised fighter (body and ego) after the drubbing he received from Margarito loaded gloves, so there's no question that Floyd received a better version that was not only recovered but at a higher weight and not weight drained like Manny did to him for Miguel's title.

3. Hatton was garbage by the time Manny got to him, Lazcano had nearly KO'd him and before that there was no talk of Pacquiao wanting any part of him but then after they see he had been raped over the course of the entire fight taking damage from Floyd along with the KO and then being put on Queer Street vs Lazcano then and only then did they feel the cherry was ready to be picked. Another one that without a doubt Floyd had the better version of.

4. DLH did not overestimate his ability to make WW, he knew he couldn't but he wanted the big payday and everyone and their mommas reported that Oscar wasn't training, was totally drained and was getting mauled by the tiny Valero in sparring. Why this was such a big win for Manny is beyond me. Floyd faced a much better version without a doubt, not drained into a zombie skeleton like the version of DLH that Pacquiao faced.

5. I never saw a complaint by JMM about Mayweather having 20lbs over him, that never happens because Floyd rarely comes in at or above the WW limit, physically I would say that JMM was better prepared in his one punch sleepytime KO performance over Manny than he had been physically in his fight with Floyd. People might not remember that JMM was in great condition though because he was drinking his own piss (lol) and claimed that he was more ready then than he was in 3 fights vs Manny.

The difference being Floyd totally outclassed and befuddled Marquez all night long and Pacquiao was done like a baby by Marquez and put to sleep.

Edge goes to Mayweather by a landslide.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

KBB wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

1. Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


2. Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

3. Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

4. Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

1. Didn't Shane have another bad performance vs Mora before Manny faced him?? Regardless, Floyd had the much better version especially since Manny and Roach turned down facing Shane at 142 even though Mosley agreed to it.

2. Cotto was a battered and bruised fighter (body and ego) after the drubbing he received from Margarito loaded gloves, so there's no question that Floyd received a better version that was not only recovered but at a higher weight and not weight drained like Manny did to him for Miguel's title.

3. Hatton was garbage by the time Manny got to him, Lazcano had nearly KO'd him and before that there was no talk of Pacquiao wanting any part of him but then after they see he had been raped over the course of the entire fight taking damage from Floyd along with the KO and then being put on Queer Street vs Lazcano then and only then did they feel the cherry was ready to be picked. Another one that without a doubt Floyd had the better version of.

4. DLH did not overestimate his ability to make WW, he knew he couldn't but he wanted the big payday and everyone and their mommas reported that Oscar wasn't training, was totally drained and was getting mauled by the tiny Valero in sparring. Why this was such a big win for Manny is beyond me. Floyd faced a much better version without a doubt, not drained into a zombie skeleton like the version of DLH that Pacquiao faced.

5. I never saw a complaint by JMM about Mayweather having 20lbs over him, that never happens because Floyd rarely comes in at or above the WW limit, physically I would say that JMM was better prepared in his one punch sleepytime KO performance over Manny than he had been physically in his fight with Floyd. People might not remember that JMM was in great condition though because he was drinking his own piss (lol) and claimed that he was more ready then than he was in 3 fights vs Manny.

The difference being Floyd totally outclassed and befuddled Marquez all night long and Pacquiao was done like a baby by Marquez and put to sleep.

Edge goes to Mayweather by a landslide.

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:
That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

koolkc107 wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:
That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

It was not Pac's fault DLH was so full of hubris as to think he could drain himself down to a weight he hadn't fought at in 8 years and still function.

Anyone with common sense knew exactly what time it was when Oscar's bones stepped on the scale...and the odd idiots who didn't know got one more clue when they reported Oscar's lack of hydration pre-fight. Pac, who you rightly point out could have been considered a jr. lightweight at the time, outweighed DLH (a natural jr middleweight) on fight night.

People who knew, knew.

No argument that 147 was Cotto's best weight. But that has nothing to do with the fact that by the time he fought Pac, he was no longer a natural 147 pounder. Miguel was talking about how hard making 147 was the fight prior to the one he had with Pac. Cotto never fought below jr. middle again (yeah, the catchweight with "Cheato was bogus, but not even close to the crap Pac pulled fighting Margarito, and even understandable in certain sense given what Antonio did the first fight).

Trout did not 'manhandle" Cotto. He boxed extremely well and rightfully earned a lopsided decision. But a lot of the rounds were close even though they rightfully went to Austin. And you have some who who even say Cotto was still "hung over" from what Floyd did to him.

But, when Cotto fought Floyd, he was two and a half years removed from the fight with Pac- plenty of time to get over any damage especially given the fact Miguel had a pretty easy time of it in the fights leading up to his match with Floyd. By contrast, less than 16 months went by between the cement beating and Cotto's forced catchweight with Manny and in that time he'd had at least one grueling encounter (with Clottey) to boot.

Just no comparison if you look at it objectively.

koolkc107 wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:
That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

It was not Pac's fault DLH was so full of hubris as to think he could drain himself down to a weight he hadn't fought at in 8 years and still function.

Anyone with common sense knew exactly what time it was when Oscar's bones stepped on the scale...and the odd idiots who didn't know got one more clue when they reported Oscar's lack of hydration pre-fight. Pac, who you rightly point out could have been considered a jr. lightweight at the time, outweighed DLH (a natural jr middleweight) on fight night.

People who knew, knew.

No argument that 147 was Cotto's best weight. But that has nothing to do with the fact that by the time he fought Pac, he was no longer a natural 147 pounder. Miguel was talking about how hard making 147 was the fight prior to the one he had with Pac. Cotto never fought below jr. middle again (yeah, the catchweight with "Cheato was bogus, but not even close to the crap Pac pulled fighting Margarito, and even understandable in certain sense given what Antonio did the first fight).

Trout did not 'manhandle" Cotto. He boxed extremely well and rightfully earned a lopsided decision. But a lot of the rounds were close even though they rightfully went to Austin. And you have some who who even say Cotto was still "hung over" from what Floyd did to him.

But, when Cotto fought Floyd, he was two and a half years removed from the fight with Pac- plenty of time to get over any damage especially given the fact Miguel had a pretty easy time of it in the fights leading up to his match with Floyd. By contrast, less than 16 months went by between the cement beating and Cotto's forced catchweight with Manny and in that time he'd had at least one grueling encounter (with Clottey) to boot.

Just no comparison if you look at it objectively.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:People who knew excluded a vast majority of boxing writers, bookmakers, Team DLH including Oscar, Schaefer, Nacho, Dundee. Mostly message board posters from the future.

Cotto never talked about moving up before Pac, easily made weight one fight prior, and later on requested a 160 rehydration limit for a 154 title defense. doesn't sound like a guy that outgrew 147. If he was drained, how come he ran like the wind from the midget for 6+ rounds straight? Can't do that drained. Having a couple of gimme fights will not heal your confidence after getting demolished like that 2x.