BoxRec

The mega-fight is signed which, win or lose, signals the beginning deathknell for the career of his perennial cash-cow, Pacquiao.

Zou Shiming has just been dealt his first loss which might auger Arum's China gambit going belly up.

Any good news for Flappy Bob after 2015?

He's making a ton of money, and will make a ton more. One loss doesn't end a career, and as one of the MAJOR players in boxing, it's not like he can't get more talent.

So no, the answer is no.

Yea 2015 is gonna suck for Bob being involved in the biggest fight in boxing history. Poor guy.

Jfc man lmmfao.

The whole concept of being a promoter is a L for one of your fighters doesn't end your career. Bob has a bunch of guys coming up. He gots the best class of 2012 roster of any promoter. Zou ain't done. He'll be a draw til he retires. Guy is like the Michael Jordan of China ffs. And worst case he grabs some money & goes shopping around for some new guys if all his current guys start sucking.

If anything is going to be bad for Bob its Al Haymon & Jay Z getting their toes into the boxing world in a big way this year. Al is seemingly picking up new guys for his roster every week. Jay Z has only done one show iirc & has two of the biggest names in the sport under his banner now. That sorta sh!t is more likely to cut into Bob's business than what any particular guy does in the ring.

if its goes on the way it is going on there will only be one promoter who promotes everything and thats AH

punchoutsb wrote:He's making a ton of money, and will make a ton more. One loss doesn't end a career, and as one of the MAJOR players in boxing, it's not like he can't get more talent.

So no, the answer is no.

I hope I am not being misinterpreted.

I didn't say "Will The Flapster go broke?". I asked is 2015 shaping up to be a "Year of Suck" for him, especially given his past successes.

I agree with some of what you guys said.

If Zou comes back strong, the story is actually better in a way.

And yes, TR (and GBP for that matter) has major competition that wasn't so readily apparent just a few months ago.

But of very serious concern is how TR has been experiencing a lot of big name defections. And the biggest guy they've signed recently is who?

Lomachenko?

Not good and not spin-able.

koolkc107 wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:He's making a ton of money, and will make a ton more. One loss doesn't end a career, and as one of the MAJOR players in boxing, it's not like he can't get more talent.

So no, the answer is no.

I hope I am not being misinterpreted.

I didn't say "Will The Flapster go broke?". I asked is 2015 shaping up to be a "Year of Suck" for him, especially given his past successes.

I agree with some of what you guys said.

If Zou comes back strong, the story is actually better in a way.

And yes, TR (and GBP for that matter) has major competition that wasn't so readily apparent just a few months ago.

But of very serious concern is how TR has been experiencing a lot of big name defections. And the biggest guy they've signed recently is who?

Lomachenko?

Not good and not spin-able.

Bob is a businessman. He seems like a jerk, but he is a dang good businessman. Businessmen never have all their eggs in one basket. 2015 will be another profitable year for Top Rank. Profitable year = not a year of suck.

punchoutsb wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:


I hope I am not being misinterpreted.

I didn't say "Will The Flapster go broke?". I asked is 2015 shaping up to be a "Year of Suck" for him, especially given his past successes.

I agree with some of what you guys said.

If Zou comes back strong, the story is actually better in a way.

And yes, TR (and GBP for that matter) has major competition that wasn't so readily apparent just a few months ago.

But of very serious concern is how TR has been experiencing a lot of big name defections. And the biggest guy they've signed recently is who?

Lomachenko?

Not good and not spin-able.

Bob is a businessman. He seems like a jerk, but he is a dang good businessman. Businessmen never have all their eggs in one basket. 2015 will be another profitable year for Top Rank. Profitable year = not a year of suck.

Quick hypothetical.

TR has been making at least "X" in profit most years.

This year, they will make a lot because of May 2, but counting everything except the mega-fight, they make half of "X".

Is Flappy Ok with that, or does he go baboon red-assed?

koolkc107 wrote: Quick hypothetical.

TR has been making at least "X" in profit most years.

This year, they will make a lot because of May 2, but counting everything except the mega-fight, they make half of "X".

Is Flappy Ok with that, or does he go baboon red-assed?

I doubt it. There's an ebb and flow in boxing, and he won't be unfamiliar with it.

koolkc107 wrote: But of very serious concern is how TR has been experiencing a lot of big name defections. And the biggest guy they've signed recently is who?

Lomachenko?

Not good and not spin-able.

Big name defections aren't anything new. Remember Oscar & Floyd?

And Bob's success in the promotion business has never been based on signing the big guys once they are big. He's a buy them when they are promising young guys type of cat.

Bob has been key to the early success of 3 outta the 4 biggest names fighting today (Floyd, Manny, Miguel with Saul being the other guy). And right now he's got the best of the last Olympics which always seems to be the guys who are good bets to become the future Floyd, Manny & Miguel type guys.

Now he has picked up some solid guys deep into their pro careers, most recent acquisitions would probably be Tim & Jessie iirc, but its not something he's done a lot of ever that I'm recalling.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: But of very serious concern is how TR has been experiencing a lot of big name defections. And the biggest guy they've signed recently is who?

Lomachenko?

Not good and not spin-able.

Big name defections aren't anything new. Remember Oscar & Floyd?

And Bob's success in the promotion business has never been based on signing the big guys once they are big. He's a buy them when they are promising young guys type of cat.

Bob has been key to the early success of 3 outta the 4 biggest names fighting today (Floyd, Manny, Miguel with Saul being the other guy). And right now he's got the best of the last Olympics which always seems to be the guys who are good bets to become the future Floyd, Manny & Miguel type guys.

Now he has picked up some solid guys deep into their pro careers, most recent acquisitions would probably be Tim & Jessie iirc, but its not something he's done a lot of ever that I'm recalling.

Great points.

But with JCC gone and Mikey going and Donaire no longer a player, exactly what big ticket guy will he have left if Manny hangs it up soon?

The great point you made is also my argument as well.

After DLH, he had Floyd.

After Floyd he had Manny and for a time, Cotto.

Who steps into the shoes when Manny leaves?

koolkc107 wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: But of very serious concern is how TR has been experiencing a lot of big name defections. And the biggest guy they've signed recently is who?

Lomachenko?

Not good and not spin-able.

Big name defections aren't anything new. Remember Oscar & Floyd?

And Bob's success in the promotion business has never been based on signing the big guys once they are big. He's a buy them when they are promising young guys type of cat.

Bob has been key to the early success of 3 outta the 4 biggest names fighting today (Floyd, Manny, Miguel with Saul being the other guy). And right now he's got the best of the last Olympics which always seems to be the guys who are good bets to become the future Floyd, Manny & Miguel type guys.

Now he has picked up some solid guys deep into their pro careers, most recent acquisitions would probably be Tim & Jessie iirc, but its not something he's done a lot of ever that I'm recalling.

Great points.

But with JCC gone and Mikey going and Donaire no longer a player, exactly what big ticket guy will he have left if Manny hangs it up soon?

The great point you made is also my argument as well.

After DLH, he had Floyd.

After Floyd he had Manny and for a time, Cotto.

Who steps into the shoes when Manny leaves?

Crawford would be the logical next guy... But it's not like Tso, Murata, Yang, Lomachenko and Walters are unable to draw. What Arum has done, quite cleverly, is spread out his best guys which all draw a slightly different demographic.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

Big name defections aren't anything new. Remember Oscar & Floyd?

And Bob's success in the promotion business has never been based on signing the big guys once they are big. He's a buy them when they are promising young guys type of cat.

Bob has been key to the early success of 3 outta the 4 biggest names fighting today (Floyd, Manny, Miguel with Saul being the other guy). And right now he's got the best of the last Olympics which always seems to be the guys who are good bets to become the future Floyd, Manny & Miguel type guys.

Now he has picked up some solid guys deep into their pro careers, most recent acquisitions would probably be Tim & Jessie iirc, but its not something he's done a lot of ever that I'm recalling.

Great points.

But with JCC gone and Mikey going and Donaire no longer a player, exactly what big ticket guy will he have left if Manny hangs it up soon?

The great point you made is also my argument as well.

After DLH, he had Floyd.

After Floyd he had Manny and for a time, Cotto.

Who steps into the shoes when Manny leaves?

Crawford would be the logical next guy... But it's not like Tso, Murata, Yang, Lomachenko and Walters are unable to draw. What Arum has done, quite cleverly, is spread out his best guys which all draw a slightly different demographic.

Really?

Which of those guys are as charismatic or can be as charismatic as Pac?

None are great talkers and Lomo doesn't even speak english yet.

Lotta work to do.

koolkc107 wrote: Who steps into the shoes when Manny leaves?

I'd put my money on Terence Crawford.

I still think Zou is gonna be HUGE & quite possibly the biggest return on investment Bob has made due to the China invasion angle Bob has made moves on that others have slept on.

Theres several guys waiting in the wings regardless though. Jesse Hart. Felix Verdejo. Ryota Murata. I'd put those 3 highest on the most likely to become mainstream cash cows list.

koolkc107 wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
Great points.

But with JCC gone and Mikey going and Donaire no longer a player, exactly what big ticket guy will he have left if Manny hangs it up soon?

The great point you made is also my argument as well.

After DLH, he had Floyd.

After Floyd he had Manny and for a time, Cotto.

Who steps into the shoes when Manny leaves?

Crawford would be the logical next guy... But it's not like Tso, Murata, Yang, Lomachenko and Walters are unable to draw. What Arum has done, quite cleverly, is spread out his best guys which all draw a slightly different demographic.

Really?

Which of those guys are as charismatic or can be as charismatic as Pac?

None are great talkers and Lomo doesn't even speak english yet.

Lotta work to do.

That's the first time I've ever seen Pacquiao called charismatic.

koolkc107 wrote: None are great talkers and Lomo doesn't even speak english yet..

Lets be honest. Manny is no great talker & barely speaks English himself. I've seen a few interviews where he just laughs out of context or nods his head in agreement cuz I'm almost positive he doesn't understand the question.

I'd agree there is a English speaking bias, but your ability to entertain fans can lower that need. Manny is a great example of this. Julio Sr., hell Julio Jr. kinda isn't the most fluent guy either, my favorite fighter Felix Trinidad are all examples of still drawing fans without the ability to speak the language.

expe wrote: That's the first time I've ever seen Pacquiao called charismatic.

Cmon man. He's a staple on the Jimmy Kimmel show cuz the guy gots some charisma thing going on. I mean they ain't just letting any bad singer sing on that show on virtually every visit just cuz its kinda funny.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: None are great talkers and Lomo doesn't even speak english yet..

Lets be honest. Manny is no great talker & barely speaks English himself. I've seen a few interviews where he just laughs out of context or nods his head in agreement cuz I'm almost positive he doesn't understand the question.

I'd agree there is a English speaking bias, but your ability to entertain fans can lower that need. Manny is a great example of this. Julio Sr., hell Julio Jr. kinda isn't the most fluent guy either, my favorite fighter Felix Trinidad are all examples of still drawing fans without the ability to speak the language.

Over the years Manny has learned enough english to have great interviews on TV. With no interpreter.

He cracks jokes, is insightful, and is always upbeat while at the same time managing to communicate the gravity of his piety.

He's an American role model, for chrissakes.

Lomo, Crawford, and Nicholas are going to have to study Manny's textbook and fast.

koolkc107 wrote: Over the years Manny has learned enough english to have great interviews on TV. With no interpreter.

He cracks jokes, is insightful, and is always upbeat while at the same time managing to communicate the gravity of his piety.

He's an American role model, for chrissakes.

Lomo, Crawford, and Nicholas are going to have to study Manny's textbook and fast.

Pretty sure Crawford can speak English since he's from Nebraska or w/e godforsaken state he's from lol. But all that other stuff is just an extra plus, not a disqualifier for others.

And I think language is becoming less of a barrier & the world is opening up more. And sh!t man how long before their is some cat who invents some sort of device for your TV/Computer/Phone that'll just translate everything for you so you can understand anyone of any language. Basically though language is less of a barrier & in our lifetimes it won't be a barrier.

Manny wasn't always Manny. And neither will any of these other guys be what you see today indefinitely.

Skillwise, yeah, they all have a shot. Hell, Lomo has already done semi-legendary crap in his few fights and who can forget Crawford turning southpaw against a southpaw- a world class one at that- and not only making it work but KOing the guy.

So they have the skill. But can they sell or be sold?

Language counts. You can get away with speaking spanish because there is a huge spanish market in and outside the US.

But just look at GGG. No matter what you think of him being proven or unproven, is there any doubt that if Gennady could run smack in english like Broner or come off like apple pie as Oscar did that he'd not only be household but probably fighting PPV by now?

And yeah, Crawford and Walters DO speak english but neither has shown themselves to be all that "exciting" pre or post fight.

Both nice enough fellers, but no flash or extraordinary charm. Can't sell that to average sports fan.

That is Arum's problem. No marquee guy on the horizon.

Meanwhile, tonight's card is literally chock full of guys who are either well down the road PR wise or can be molded and sold if they get bigger.

koolkc107 wrote:Skillwise, yeah, they all have a shot. Hell, Lomo has already done semi-legendary crap in his few fights and who can forget Crawford turning southpaw against a southpaw- a world class one at that- and not only making it work but KOing the guy.

So they have the skill. But can they sell or be sold?

Language counts. You can get away with speaking spanish because there is a huge spanish market in and outside the US.

But just look at GGG. No matter what you think of him being proven or unproven, is there any doubt that if Gennady could run smack in english like Broner or come off like apple pie as Oscar did that he'd not only be household but probably fighting PPV by now?

And yeah, Crawford and Walters DO speak english but neither has shown themselves to be all that "exciting" pre or post fight.

Both nice enough fellers, but no flash or extraordinary charm. Can't sell that to average sports fan.

That is Arum's problem. No marquee guy on the horizon.

Meanwhile, tonight's card is literally chock full of guys who are either well down the road PR wise or can be molded and sold if they get bigger.

You mean the Broner that was booed and gave a tame bout against a made to order opponent, and Thurman who was booed last time out for a dull effort against a 40 year old Italian non puncher? Wow go Haymon!

koolkc107 wrote: This year, they will make a lot because of May 2, but counting everything except the mega-fight, they make half of "X".

not so sure about that. we'll see how much he made at the end of the year but
i think the question will be more about 2016 than 2015. next year is an olympic
year and rio is only an hour difference from USA EST so the americas and europe
will probably be able to watch most of the boxing live on real channels or stream.
a lot of those guys will be fighting their debuts in the fall, and the guys who don't
make the olympics will be having their debuts probably before or just after the
olympics in the summer. if arum and oscar cooperate some good fights could be
made, maybe even work with sauerland or matchroom and there are always up
and comers. a lot of people said boxing would die when oscar retired. impossible
to know what will happen in boxing a year or two down the line, and arum is 83
so in the next few years there will be a transition at top rank.

koolkc107 wrote:Skillwise, yeah, they all have a shot. Hell, Lomo has already done semi-legendary crap in his few fights and who can forget Crawford turning southpaw against a southpaw- a world class one at that- and not only making it work but KOing the guy.

So they have the skill. But can they sell or be sold?

Of course they can be sold. Zou is already sold like it or not. Floyd & Manny combined wish they had Zou's fanbase. But obviously selling to the US public is a different animal. I think half the battle is just throwing a guy on fans. Manny wasn't grown overnight. It took time to get him to be the chill ass guy singing on national tv that everyone knows today. And its not like being Manny Jr. is the only blueprint to follow. I've always thought TR should take more time promoting Antonio Margarito type cats they got as the villain cuz Floyd has made more money being the bad guy than Manny has made being the charismatic, foreign, happy go lucky, good guy.

fergusg wrote:It’s abundantly clear that Al Haymon’s stable, in terms of quality and quantity of big names, is now far bigger the total combined stables of Top Rank and GBP

al haymon is a manager, not a promoter. TR and GB are promoters.
al haymon uses goosen, dibella, and warriors as promoters.
compare TR and GB to dibella, warriors, goosen, duva's main events, etc.

sucracristo wrote:

fergusg wrote:It’s abundantly clear that Al Haymon’s stable, in terms of quality and quantity of big names, is now far bigger the total combined stables of Top Rank and GBP

al haymon is a manager, not a promoter. TR and GB are promoters.
al haymon uses goosen, dibella, and warriors as promoters.
compare TR and GB to dibella, warriors, goosen, duva's main events, etc.

I dont think Al Hamon is even a manager isn't he an 'advisor'

No, because he's rich. Yes because he's old.