BoxRec

There's a discussing in the current scene about where Mayweather or Pacquaio will rank in the ATG list if they win in May.

There are a few posters agreed that they will rank above Duran, due to longevity and weight climbing success.
now I'm sure that opinion wont go down well on here

but the question I posed and I want to ask here isn't so much where they would rank, but more specifically, who would actually win if?

1. Prime lightweight Duran fought Mayweather or Pacquiao at Lightweight? (lets say the 2002 mayweather that fought Castillo & 2008 Pac that fought Diaz)

2. Who do you think would win if 1980 welterweight Duran who beat Leonard fought say the 2007 Mayweather who face Hatton or the 2009 Pacquiao who beat Cotto? (IMO their respective "primes")

If i were to answer to all 4 bouts, my response would look similar to if i were asked 1. who sang hungry like a wolf? 2. who sang girls on film?

I think Chavez or Whitaker would beat them both at light weight. So for me it's hard to argue against Duran beating them both as well.

I'm not sure lightweight is either of them's best weight class. Do you?

BoxBuzz wrote:I think Chavez or Whitaker would beat them both at light weight. So for me it's hard to argue against Duran beating them both as well.

I'm not sure lightweight is either of them's best weight class. Do you?

No, that's why i gave option 1 & 2, lightweight where Duran was at his best and Welterweight where Pac and Mayweather were probably at their strongest

davie wrote:There's a discussing in the current scene about where Mayweather or Pacquaio will rank in the ATG list if they win in May.

There are a few posters agreed that they will rank above Duran, due to longevity and weight climbing success.
now I'm sure that opinion wont go down well on here

but the question I posed and I want to ask here isn't so much where they would rank, but more specifically, who would actually win if?

1. Prime lightweight Duran fought Mayweather or Pacquiao at Lightweight? (lets say the 2002 mayweather that fought Castillo & 2008 Pac that fought Diaz)

2. Who do you think would win if 1980 welterweight Duran who beat Leonard fought say the 2007 Mayweather who face Hatton or the 2009 Pacquiao who beat Cotto? (IMO their respective "primes")

If i were to answer to all 4 bouts, my response would look similar to if i were asked 1. who sang hungry like a wolf? 2. who sang girls on film?

Have to agree. Just a different level of fighter IMO than PAC and May. Almost as good defensively as Floyd yet more capable offensively than Manny. I mean SRL would trounce either the two as well but he is naturally much bigger. I had Roberto beating Ray by five rounds in a fight that had all the boxing tricks as well as action.

Quoted from current scene.


tiny_acres wrote:
"20 years down the road the winner of this fight will be held in top 10 if not top 5 ATG status.
We might not agree now but history will paint it as such." end quote

Only one poster mentioned Duran losing to Mayweather or Pacquiao..That poster was KBB.

Anyone who has been a member of this forum for over a day knows not to even bother with 99%
of kbb's posts.
My argument as it has always been is that the winner of Pac-FMJ will be in the eyes
of history a top 10 if not a top 5 ATG.

ALMOST ALL FIGHTERS STAR SHINES BRIGHTER AFTER THEY ARE GONE.

tiny_acres wrote:
Only one poster mentioned Duran losing to Mayweather or Pacquiao..That poster was KBB.

Anyone who has been a member of this forum for over a day knows not to even bother with 99%
of kbb's posts.

I always like to give people a chance, but i'm slowly starting to realise KBB is, how can I put this, a poster I'm likely to disagree with, more often than not.

davie wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:
Only one poster mentioned Duran losing to Mayweather or Pacquiao..That poster was KBB.

Anyone who has been a member of this forum for over a day knows not to even bother with 99%
of kbb's posts.

I always like to give people a chance, but i'm slowly starting to realise KBB is, how can I put this, a poster I'm likely to disagree with, more often than not.

KBB once in a while nails things straight on the old nail head.
But most of the time he hits his thumb instead.

In the long run the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight will mean almost nothing. The loser will have the "Past His Prime" excuse.
It won't mean anymore than Lewis-Tyson.

Ambling Alp II wrote:In the long run the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight will mean almost nothing. The loser will have the "Past His Prime" excuse.
It won't mean anymore than Lewis-Tyson.

No way will historians view it as such.
The winner will gain in the atg argument in years to come.

Really?

Lets say Pacquiao wins. Nobody is going to say point out that he beat a 38 year old?

Lets say Mayweather wins. Nobody is going to point out that he beat a 36 year old who was in his 65th fight, with a ton of ring wars?

This fight needed to be at least 4 years ago to mean much. It's a payday, nothing more.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Really?

Lets say Pacquiao wins. Nobody is going to say point out that he beat a 38 year old?

Lets say Mayweather wins. Nobody is going to point out that he beat a 36 year old who was in his 65th fight, with a ton of ring wars?

This fight needed to be at least 4 years ago to mean much. It's a payday, nothing more.

Agreed.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Really?

Lets say Pacquiao wins. Nobody is going to say point out that he beat a 38 year old?

Lets say Mayweather wins. Nobody is going to point out that he beat a 36 year old who was in his 65th fight, with a ton of ring wars?

This fight needed to be at least 4 years ago to mean much. It's a payday, nothing more.

I disagree, on the basis that both are still ruling the welterweight roost. Lewis-Tyson was some time ago but i think it was plainly obvious Tyson was completely washed up long before Lewis got to him. Floyd & Pac on the other hand are still rated #1 & #2 by most having eased to wins over Canelo & Bradley who are among the best of the rest.

As for the Duran question, it's tough to say. When i think of SRL winding up bolo-feints i tend to think Mayweather would clown Duran, but Duran finding the pocket like Cotto or Maidana did is probably going to bust Floyd up real bad. As for Pacquaio, again tough to say, the Pacquiao that stopped Barrera would be 1 hell of a fight against Duran but if the fight got hot and leather was swapped I could see Pacquaio coming off worse.

BoxBuzz wrote:I think Chavez or Whitaker would beat them both at light weight. So for me it's hard to argue against Duran beating them both as well.

I'm not sure lightweight is either of them's best weight class. Do you?

I actually think Floyd and Manny were both probably at their peak at 135-140.

But either way Duran beats both of them.

The great Roberto Duran was in another level, man. Those guys would not beat him in a 3 fight series.

Ricky_ wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Really?

Lets say Pacquiao wins. Nobody is going to say point out that he beat a 38 year old?

Lets say Mayweather wins. Nobody is going to point out that he beat a 36 year old who was in his 65th fight, with a ton of ring wars?

This fight needed to be at least 4 years ago to mean much. It's a payday, nothing more.

I disagree, on the basis that both are still ruling the welterweight roost. Lewis-Tyson was some time ago but i think it was plainly obvious Tyson was completely washed up long before Lewis got to him. Floyd & Pac on the other hand are still rated #1 & #2 by most having eased to wins over Canelo & Bradley who are among the best of the rest.

As for the Duran question, it's tough to say. When i think of SRL winding up bolo-feints i tend to think Mayweather would clown Duran, but Duran finding the pocket like Cotto or Maidana did is probably going to bust Floyd up real bad. As for Pacquaio, again tough to say, the Pacquiao that stopped Barrera would be 1 hell of a fight against Duran but if the fight got hot and leather was swapped I could see Pacquaio coming off worse.

But that's just it, an awful lot of people did not think Tyson was washed up going into the fight. He was considered past his best, but still having a lot left. We kept hearing from many people how he would knockout the "glass jaw" Lewis. Many people thought that he would knockout Lewis. It was only after the fight, that so many people were saying that Tyson was washed up.

This is going to happen with Pacquaio and Mayweather. They aren't washed up, but they aren't a their best either. Historically, people will look back at this fight and say the loser was past it. Down the road, it will not be that important when rating these fighters.

Duran beats Pacquiao by KO. The Filipino doesn't take it well to the body, and Duran would dissect him down there.

All elite pure boxers have a great chance to upend Duran, who's main drawback was his very average foot speed.
Manos de Piedras would have had a helluva time connecting consistently on Mayweather. He was impotent against Benitez, another outstanding defensive fighter with smart movement.
A step behind all night, Duran would have been similarly frustrated and beaten by Mayweather.

SenorPipino wrote:Duran beats Pacquiao by KO. The Filipino doesn't take it well to the body, and Duran would dissect him down there.

All elite pure boxers have a great chance to upend Duran, who's main drawback was his very average foot speed.
Manos de Piedras would have had a helluva time connecting consistently on Mayweather. He was impotent against Benitez, another outstanding defensive fighter with smart movement.
A step behind all night, Duran would have been similarly frustrated and beaten by Mayweather.

Anything is possible.I agree with your description of Pac-Duran.
I am uncertain on the Mayweather-Duran description.My heart says Duran
but my head says it is a toss up.

tiny_acres wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:Duran beats Pacquiao by KO. The Filipino doesn't take it well to the body, and Duran would dissect him down there.

All elite pure boxers have a great chance to upend Duran, who's main drawback was his very average foot speed.
Manos de Piedras would have had a helluva time connecting consistently on Mayweather. He was impotent against Benitez, another outstanding defensive fighter with smart movement.
A step behind all night, Duran would have been similarly frustrated and beaten by Mayweather.

Anything is possible.I agree with your description of Pac-Duran.
I am uncertain on the Mayweather-Duran description.My heart says Duran
but my head says it is a toss up.

Maybe the Duran of the first Leonard fight could beat Mayweather.
Duran was a relentless animal that night, and that type of pressure and furious work rate might do the trick.
But remember, Floyd would never have fought the type of toe-to-toe battle that Leonard foolishly waged that night, making it easier for Duran to reach and connect.

Otherwise, Duran seldom displayed that sustained fury in any of his bouts at welter or higher (except for the classic battle with Iran Barkley) that would have been necessary for him to overtake Mayweather.

RE: Pac vs FMJ

I agree this is not these fighters prime.

But I have to ask. In their weight classes.....who are the two top fighters in the world?

If it's still them.....and I think it might be....this fight is VERY relevant.

Even if on a compromised basis.


Speaks to just how good they are/were, if they are still the best 4 years later.

BoxBuzz wrote:RE: Pac vs FMJ

I agree this is not these fighters prime.

But I have to ask. In their weight classes.....who are the two top fighters in the world?

If it's still them.....and I think it might be....this fight is VERY relevant.

Even if on a compromised basis.


Speaks to just how good they are/were, if they are still the best 4 years later.

Neither definitely are in their respective primes.
But both are universally recognized as top 10 p4p boxers.
Arguably #1 and 2 p4p.
So yes I agree this fight is very very relevant.

SenorPipino wrote:Duran beats Pacquiao by KO. The Filipino doesn't take it well to the body, and Duran would dissect him down there.

All elite pure boxers have a great chance to upend Duran, who's main drawback was his very average foot speed.
Manos de Piedras would have had a helluva time connecting consistently on Mayweather. He was impotent against Benitez, another outstanding defensive fighter with smart movement.
A step behind all night, Duran would have been similarly frustrated and beaten by Mayweather.

The prime Duran of the 1970s had very fast feet . . .fat bloated Duran of the 1980s is a different fighter.

tiny_acres wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:RE: Pac vs FMJ

I agree this is not these fighters prime.

But I have to ask. In their weight classes.....who are the two top fighters in the world?

If it's still them.....and I think it might be....this fight is VERY relevant.

Even if on a compromised basis.


Speaks to just how good they are/were, if they are still the best 4 years later.

Neither definitely are in their respective primes.
But both are universally recognized as top 10 p4p boxers.

Arguably #1 and 2 p4p.
So yes I agree this fight is very very relevant.

It seems relevant now. There has not been a fight to get excited about in years. Many people have waited a long time for this.

However, down the road, when people argue who was better, the loser's fans are going to use the past their primes excuses.

And it's not going to help much when comparing to other greats. If for example, someone says that Pac was better than say Duran, Duran fans are going to say why, because he beat an ancient Mayweather? How does that compare to beating Leonard?

Or if someone is going to say Mayweather is better is better than say Ray Leonard, Leonard fans will say why? How does beating a shopworn Pac (who lost to two different other guys not that long ago) compare to beating Duran, or Hearns or Benitez?

It might seem like a big deal immediately following the fight whoever wins. However, as time goes on, it will lose it's luster considerably.

In my opinion Duran at his BESTwould beat any lightweight that ever lived.

No matter who wins, both of them are all time greats. But I could never rate them above the great Roberto Duran or Sugar Ray Leonard

I should think Mayweather would rank above Leonard based on consistency and number of top fighters beaten. If Mayweather beats more top contenders than Leonard and is more consistent than I would think he would rate higher.