BoxRec

Looks like Al just came to a deal with Disney to get on ABC and ESPN:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/bo ... /24953921/

More money spent that he's not going to get back.

Just gonna post this myself.

This whole PBC thing is gonna be the biggest success boxing has ever seen or the biggest failure boxing has ever seen. I can't see any boxing fan feeling neutral, thinking it was sorta good or sorta bad in 5-6 years when the final outcome is known.

Either way I'm watching this intently & with hopes it does become something successful for the sport. Boxing could use some innovativation.

Also boooooooooo that Atlas keeps his job. I hope they put that mfer thru A Clockwork Orange reprogramming before he hosts these new shows cuz its getting old seeing that grumpy bastard sh!tting on fights all the time.

ReggieDiggs wrote: Just gonna post this myself.

This whole PBC thing is gonna be the biggest success boxing has ever seen or the biggest failure boxing has ever seen. I can't see any boxing fan feeling neutral, thinking it was sorta good or sorta bad in 5-6 years when the final outcome is known.

Either way I'm watching this intently & with hopes it does become something successful for the sport. Boxing could use some innovativation.

Also boooooooooo that Atlas keeps his job. I hope they put that mfer thru A Clockwork Orange reprogramming before he hosts these new shows cuz its getting old seeing that grumpy bastard sh!tting on fights all the time.

I just don't see how he makes all the money back. He spent $8 million marketing the Thurman-Guerrero show and got a peak of 4.2 million viewers, Kathy Duva spent $5,000 marketing an NBC show and got a peak of 3.2 million viewers, that's a lot of money to only get an extra million viewers and that's without considering the cost of buying the airtime and the inflated purses being paid for the show. It's no worry to him because it's all investors money and he still gets his cut from the fighters, he can't really lose and the investors won't be that bothered because they'll have invested in loads of different projects, as long as one of them comes off, they make their money back and a lot more on top, anything they lose on projects that don't come off is a tax write off. But eventually the investment money will dry up if they're getting no return and what happens then?

Randomly I heard rumors that the Bounce TV deal is going to be more a replay of fights on other channels than it'll have its own series of live fights. Since most of these deals are time buys that means PBC is the content creator thus own the fights from my understanding. So they can show them elsewhere.

So that partially helps explain where some small amount of the revenue is going to be coming from with all the money being spent. Thing is the first two cards cost $8M for fighter purses ($6M for NBC, $2M for Spike) + who knows for other expenses so imho these shows will have to diminish in purse expenses, there is a giant pot of gold at the end of the PBC rainbow that no one is really seeing yet or Haymon is pimping out Keith Thurman to some gay Saudi prince for $20M a pop & is already bathing in Ben Franklin's.

ReggieDiggs wrote:Randomly I heard rumors that the Bounce TV deal is going to be more a replay of fights on other channels than it'll have its own series of live fights. Since most of these deals are time buys that means PBC is the content creator thus own the fights from my understanding. So they can show them elsewhere.

So that partially helps explain where some small amount of the revenue is going to be coming from with all the money being spent. Thing is the first two cards cost $8M for fighter purses ($6M for NBC, $2M for Spike) + who knows for other expenses so imho these shows will have to diminish in purse expenses, there is a giant pot of gold at the end of the PBC rainbow that no one is really seeing yet or Haymon is pimping out Keith Thurman to some gay Saudi prince for $20M a pop & is already bathing in Ben Franklin's.

The more I think about it, this could be a very shrewd plan from Haymon. If he hasn't put any of his own money in, with the huge purses and his 15% cut, he could still make a fortune from it while it lasts. Not all of that $8m will have been to his fighters, but even if only $5m was paid to his fighters, 15% is $750k, not bad for two shows. I think it will fail in a commercial sense, the investors won't get their money back, but the fighters will be well paid and Haymon will make a load of money by spending practically nothing.

expe wrote: I just don't see how he makes all the money back. He spent $8 million marketing the Thurman-Guerrero show and got a peak of 4.2 million viewers, Kathy Duva spent $5,000 marketing an NBC show and got a peak of 3.2 million viewers, that's a lot of money to only get an extra million viewers and that's without considering the cost of buying the airtime and the inflated purses being paid for the show. It's no worry to him because it's all investors money and he still gets his cut from the fighters, he can't really lose and the investors won't be that bothered because they'll have invested in loads of different projects, as long as one of them comes off, they make their money back and a lot more on top, anything they lose on projects that don't come off is a tax write off. But eventually the investment money will dry up if they're getting no return and what happens then?

I'd assume he's an investor too.

I don't think whatever this is is that careless. I think there is a well thought out plan thats going into all this. Haymon is a focused cat & between his brother being a boxer & him being Vernon Forrest's manager going back a decade & change iirc I think he has a genuine love for the sport & its participants that would compete with if not trump most people on this forum. My opinion is speculative obviously as are all things Haymon, but I believe it makes more sense then this is some make money with a bunch of failures plan.

I think the sport is ripe for a revolution or takeover attempt or whatever you wanna call it. And I think when you do something like that you don't necessarily play by the rules everyone else is playing by to do that. Its obvious Haymon gots his own blueprint that his gameplan seems largely unknown or impossible to be successful by us amateur boxing power brokers on this & other forums at this point.

I'm leaning toward optimism and hope all turns out good in the long term for Al Haymon.
So far the vast majority of the PBC fights have been excellent, I feel Haymon is doing a great job so far, keep up the good work.

expe wrote:Not all of that $8m will have been to his fighters, but even if only $5m was paid to his fighters, 15% is $750k, not bad for two shows. I think it will fail in a commercial sense, the investors won't get their money back, but the fighters will be well paid and Haymon will make a load of money by spending practically nothing.

I can't believe this is all some elaborate plan to make bank off of the 15% he has of fighters. He could seemingly do that without all the drama & expenses. I think there is more money out there that would make more sense with all the sh!t thats going on right now.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

expe wrote:Not all of that $8m will have been to his fighters, but even if only $5m was paid to his fighters, 15% is $750k, not bad for two shows. I think it will fail in a commercial sense, the investors won't get their money back, but the fighters will be well paid and Haymon will make a load of money by spending practically nothing.

I can't believe this is all some elaborate plan to make bank off of the 15% he has of fighters. He could seemingly do that without all the drama & expenses. I think there is more money out there that would make more sense with all the sh!t thats going on right now.

Before he had to rely on other promoters to pay the fighters, now he has investors doing it with over inflated purses, making him a shitload more money. I can't think of any other reason why they would be paying silly money to fighters that would fight for a lot less, they'll never make a profit like that and I don't think Haymon is stupid enough to believe he will.

Does the P in PBC stand for Ponzi?

expe wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

expe wrote:Not all of that $8m will have been to his fighters, but even if only $5m was paid to his fighters, 15% is $750k, not bad for two shows. I think it will fail in a commercial sense, the investors won't get their money back, but the fighters will be well paid and Haymon will make a load of money by spending practically nothing.

I can't believe this is all some elaborate plan to make bank off of the 15% he has of fighters. He could seemingly do that without all the drama & expenses. I think there is more money out there that would make more sense with all the sh!t thats going on right now.

Before he had to rely on other promoters to pay the fighters, now he has investors doing it with over inflated purses, making him a shitload more money. I can't think of any other reason why they would be paying silly money to fighters that would fight for a lot less, they'll never make a profit like that and I don't think Haymon is stupid enough to believe he will.

I don't think Al & you are thinking under the same umbrella is the thing. I'm not under that umbrella either so thats not even a insult to you by saying that.

Al created ~12 other related business off of his concert promotion business to keep even more money in house. I think there is something bigger like that going on here. I mean with the current Success in Boxing blueprint guys have been using for the last several decades, sure I can see what you are saying. Thing is I think there are some untapped or undertapped revenue streams that are likely the "endgame" so to speak here.

15% of fighter purses is a low level play when you think of all the money guys like Bob, Don, HBO, Oscar, etc & so on have made in the game. And from my understanding of the Al contracts that have been released publicly I think half are only 15% on anything over 1.8M (Peter Quillin's contract) so if Peter makes $2M for his next fight Al sees $30k not $300k. And most cats aren't making millions in the first place so again it seems like a lot of work for lil ROI.

Article says a dozen broadcasts yearly.

So is that all the boxing the espn networks are going to have?
espn2 has been airing anywhere from 25 to 40 boxing shows a year since 1998.

Now they're going down to a dozen?

I think that no matter what happens the PBC will be an ultimate plus.

Haymon has already won.

He has already guaranteed, at least for the short term, a much higher profile for boxing as a sport than anyone imagined recently.

That alone has to be worth something.

How many live dates does he now have across all channels? Is he getting close to a show every week of the year?

koolkc107 wrote:I think that no matter what happens the PBC will be an ultimate plus.

Haymon has already won.

He has already guaranteed, at least for the short term, a much higher profile for boxing as a sport than anyone imagined recently.

That alone has to be worth something.

This +1!!

chad wrote:How many live dates does he now have across all channels? Is he getting close to a show every week of the year?

Over the course of the two-year deal, which runs through July 2017, at least two of the 24 two-hour cards will air on ABC, ESPN's sister network, on Saturday afternoons. Haymon is buying the air time for the 24 cards. ESPN is footing the bill for the production and holds an option for six additional cards. Haymon also has to pay the fighter purses and the other expenses related to putting on an event.

Haymon's investors are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into the PBC, which this year already announced deals with NBC/NBCSN (40 shows through 2016), CBS (at least eight shows this year in a multiyear deal), Spike TV (at least 33 monthly shows through 2017) and Bounce TV (monthly prospect-oriented cards beginning in July on the network Haymon helped found in 2011).

Its well over a 100 shows for the next two years so a show a week is a good estimate.

One thing that made Haymon so successful as a concert promoter is good ability to maximize profits. He finds earning potential in overlooked areas. Did you know Floyd gets a cut of concession sales at MGM when he fights there? I go by track record and so far Haymon has a winning track record. You don't just go to people and say you want $100 mil to put boxing on TV. You have to have a business plan to show them how you'll make them a profit. People complain about the ring walks, no ring announcers or ring girls or toning down boxers. These aren't just ideas, these are consumer tested ideas. People compare his model to the UFC but I see a lot of comparisons to the NFL.

the promoters are staging the events and must be paying out something off the gate,
concessions, parking and other revenues toward the purses, and then there are the tv
revenues, which are not going to the network because haymon purchased the air time.
i used to wonder how the hell can nbc pay the friends cast like $1mil each per episode
x 22 episodes x 6 cast + all the other production costs. same with seinfeld and all
these other shows. they must be getting enough revenue to pay those crazy salaries.
now haymon is getting the tv revenue instead of the networks + whatever comes from
the promoters for the gate and concessions and merchandize and whatever else and
paying for the purses and airtime. his investors might not be losing money. also, if he
has one of those deals where he collects all the money but doesn't have to pay all the bills
until later, he could hop on a private jet one night and take off with a fortune.