BoxRec

Scypion wrote:Some heavyweight contenders from the 1950's were Nino Valdez, Bob Baker, Bob Satterfield, Rex Layne, and Roy Harris. You can pick any three that you want, if you think they are worthy of your list.

HomicideHenry wrote:2011-Present

Vladimir Klitschko (2009-Present)


In this era, I think the only person who really qualifies or stands much of a chance against all the all-time legends is Vladimir Klitschko. Let's be honest here, most of the top ten men of the passed 4-5 years are still either in development, or proved to be cannon fodder. This is about the best of the best, not the best of the rest. So Klitschko is the lone man to move forward.

Bundana wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:2011-Present

Vladimir Klitschko (2009-Present)


In this era, I think the only person who really qualifies or stands much of a chance against all the all-time legends is Vladimir Klitschko. Let's be honest here, most of the top ten men of the passed 4-5 years are still either in development, or proved to be cannon fodder. This is about the best of the best, not the best of the rest. So Klitschko is the lone man to move forward.

So you don't believe guys like Povetkin, Haye, Wilder, etc. would stand much of a chance against true legends like Hart, Burns and Gunboat Smith?

HomicideHenry wrote:

Bundana wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:2011-Present

Vladimir Klitschko (2009-Present)


In this era, I think the only person who really qualifies or stands much of a chance against all the all-time legends is Vladimir Klitschko. Let's be honest here, most of the top ten men of the passed 4-5 years are still either in development, or proved to be cannon fodder. This is about the best of the best, not the best of the rest. So Klitschko is the lone man to move forward.

So you don't believe guys like Povetkin, Haye, Wilder, etc. would stand much of a chance against true legends like Hart, Burns and Gunboat Smith?

I have a hard time believing so yes, because outside of Haye that you mentioned, the rest of the field (in essence) are still being developed or are old-timers (Tarver, for instance) who make up the top 50 in the world, etc. I have a hard time seeing Wilder beating a Gunboat Smith, in all honesty. I have a hard time seeing alot of guys from today like Andy Ruiz being able to beat a Burns or Hart--- after all, Hart defeated Johnson over 20 rounds, and Burns was a giant killer and worldclass p4p skilled boxer in three different weight classes. Etc etc etc.

No, the only man who deserves to move forward and compete against the all-time greats, is the only man in the entire field who keeps on winning, keeps on collecting belts, keeps on raking in millions--- and thats Vladimir Klitschko. Unless you are 110% sure that there is someone out there right now who can beat Klitschko and prove to be better than he is. And if so, you better have alot of paper to prove so, or show me your crystal ball.

HomicideHenry wrote:1941-1950

Joe Louis (1937-1949)
Ezzard Charles (1949-1951)*
Jersey Joe Walcott (1951-1952)*
Jimmy Bivins
Joey Maxim
Elmer Ray
Harold Johnson

(Need three more names)

*Charles and Walcott, the bulk of their careers and their prime years, were of THIS time frame, rather than their own title reigns. Which is why I have them here, rather than in the following time period.

Crease wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:1941-1950

Joe Louis (1937-1949)
Ezzard Charles (1949-1951)*
Jersey Joe Walcott (1951-1952)*
Jimmy Bivins
Joey Maxim
Elmer Ray
Harold Johnson

(Need three more names)

*Charles and Walcott, the bulk of their careers and their prime years, were of THIS time frame, rather than their own title reigns. Which is why I have them here, rather than in the following time period.

I would suggest - Lee Savold, Bruce Woodcock & Tami Mauriello - the three of them were considered "top 10" guys during the era.

HomicideHenry wrote:1991-2000

Buster Douglas (1990-1990)
Evander Holyfield (1990-1992) & (1993-1994) & (1996-1999) & (2000-2001)
George Foreman (1994-1999)
Lennox Lewis (1992-1994) & (1995-2001) & (2001-2004)
Shannon Briggs (1997-1998)
Ray Mercer
Tommy Morrison
Tony Tucker
Riddick Bowe (1992-1993)
Oliver McCall (1994-1997)

Crease wrote: I find the inclusion of Briggs to be very strange. And what's with those years? Briggs never made a significant impact in the division until he won the WBO Title in 2006. I would suggest that he would be more of a candidate in that decade, rather than being in the top 10 of the nineties, which he clearly wasn't.

cfang wrote:I'd add larry Gaines to the 20s or 30s lists.

dempseyfire wrote:Just because a guy held a paper belt doesn't mean he was elite. Get Briggs, Peter, Rahman, Valuev, McCall, Ruiz off of there . . .

In the 1930s add Bob Pastor, Ernie Schaff (despite his early departure), Lou Nova, and Nathan Mann.

Add Turkey Thompson and Lee Q Murray to the 1940s . . take out Woodcock and if you're going to have Savold in there you have to include Joe Baski.

HomicideHenry wrote:Last year, the forum put on the "Best White Heavyweight of All Time" tournament, which Jack Dempsey prevailed as the victor defeating James J. Jeffries in the finals. Considering there has been so many arguments as of late concerning such men as Jack Johnson, Primo Carnera, and Mr. Dempsey himself--- I think it may be in order (once, again) to do a tournament of the greatest heavyweights of the 20th (and 21st) centuries. 1900-Present. No color lines drawn.

The top ten best by era, represented, and randomly matched. The winners/losers will be determined by forum poster vote, as before. A record of their wins/losses will be kept in account and discussed at the tournaments end. The goal in mind with this tournament? Not only to have fun and to share ideas and opinions on the fighters and possible outcomes in these hypothetical scenarios, but to determine (once, again) the all-around ranking of these men from bottom to top, top to bottom.

I will start of the list, and others can throw in additional names, or make better suggestions than I have listed.

1900-1910

James J. Jeffries (1899-1905)
Marvin Hart (1905-1906)
Tommy Burns (1906-1908)
Jack Johnson (1908-1915)*
Tom Sharkey
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons
Sam Langford
Joe Jeanette
Sam McVey

*Johnson makes the list, despite going beyond the time gap as champion, because he was one of the premiere contenders for most of those years and was the Colored Champion of The World for a number of years also. He cannot be ignored for the era, and considering he was (more or less) inactive for some time before facing Willard anyways, he must be forgiven.

1911-1920

Jess Willard (1915-1919)
Luther McCarty
Ed Gunboat Smith
Frank Moran
Jack Dempsey (1919-1926)*
Fred Fulton

(Need four more names)

*Same with Jack Johnson, Dempsey cannot be overlooked or ignored in this time frame though he was champion will into the next time period, because he essentially cleaned out the division on the way up. Every remaining 'white hope' from the previous era, the Arthur Pelkey's the Carl Morris's, etc. Dempsey defeated them all and his beat down of Willard is considered by many to of been his best performance of all.

1921-1930

Harry Wills
George Godfrey
Gene Tunney (1926-1928)
Max Schmeling (1930-1932)*
Jack Sharkey
Tommy Loughran
Mickey Walker
Young Stribling
Larry Gaines

(One more name)

*Same with the previous two men, for the same reasons (more or less). Sharkey also fits into this time frame, more so than his own championship reign (1932-1933), because he was a certified contender and considered one of the best ring wizards of the 1921-1930 era. From that time on Sharkey's career rapidly declined. Hence it is more fair to list him here, than in the next era when he wasn't at his best.

1931-1940

Primo Carnera (1933-1934)
Max Baer (1934-1935)
James J. Braddock (1935-1937)
Tommy Farr
Arturo Gudoy
Tiger Jack Fox
Ernie Schaaf
Lou Nova
Bob Pastor
N. Mann


*Note: This time frame was difficult to chose, because of Joe Louis. He was champion from 1937-1949. Four years of that reign, went to the Army. So that leaves 5 years of competition, for the 1941-1950 era, which truly was his era. So that is why I did not put him in this time frame of 1931-1940, though in this time frame some of his greatest fights took place.


1941-1950

Joe Louis (1937-1949)
Ezzard Charles (1949-1951)*
Jersey Joe Walcott (1951-1952)*
Jimmy Bivins
Joey Maxim
Elmer Ray
Harold Johnson
Tami Mauriello
Lee Savold
Turkey Thompson

*Charles and Walcott, the bulk of their careers and their prime years, were of THIS time frame, rather than their own title reigns. Which is why I have them here, rather than in the following time period.

1951-1960

Rocky Marciano (1952-1956)
Floyd Patterson (1956-1959) & (1960-1962)*
Archie Moore
Ingemar Johansson (1959-1960)*
Roland LaStarza
Tommy Jackson
Eddie Machen
Nino Valdes
Bob Baker
Bob Satterfield


*Patterson and Johansson, for the same reasons for Charles & Walcott, that the bulk of their careers and their primes were in this time frame, rather than in the 1960's, which they did compete (briefly) as champion.

1961-1970

Sonny Liston (1962-1964)
Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali (1964-1970) & (1974-1978) & (1978-1979)*
Cleveland Williams
Zora Folley
Ernie Terrell
George Chuvalo
Doug Jones
Henry Cooper
Karl Mildenberger
Jimmy Ellis


*Because Ali had three title reigns essentially through the biggest part of the 60's and 70's, he will be factored in mainly by his peak performance years, when he was his fastest and most skilled. Which is why he is in this era, rather than in the 1971-1980 era, when he was slower and relied more on taking punishment. However, in all fairness, the 1970's was also the Ali era so all the fighters listed in that time are considered 'second best'.

1971-1980

Jerry Quarry
Oscar Bonavena
Ken Norton
George Foreman (1972-1974)
Joe Frazier (1970-1972)
Buster Mathis
Ron Lyle
Jimmy Young
Earnie Shavers
Leon Spinks (1978-1978)

1981-1990

Larry Holmes (1978-1985)
Michael Spinks (1985-1988)
Gerry Cooney
Tim Witherspoon
Trevor Berbick
Gerrie Coetzee
Greg Page
Michael Dokes
John Tate
Mike Tyson (1986-1990)

1991-2000

Buster Douglas (1990-1990)
Evander Holyfield (1990-1992) & (1993-1994) & (1996-1999) & (2000-2001)
George Foreman (1994-1999)
Lennox Lewis (1992-1994) & (1995-2001) & (2001-2004)
Shannon Briggs (1997-1998)
Ray Mercer
Tommy Morrison
Tony Tucker
Riddick Bowe (1992-1993)
Oliver McCall (1994-1997)

2001-2010

Vitali Klitschko (2004-2005) & (2008-2013)
Samuel Peter
Ruslan Chagaev
Nicolai Valuev
Oleg Maskaev
Corrie Sanders
Lamon Brewster
Chris Byrd
John Ruiz
Hasim Rahman (2004)

2011-Present

Vladimir Klitschko (2009-Present)


In this era, I think the only person who really qualifies or stands much of a chance against all the all-time legends is Vladimir Klitschko. Let's be honest here, most of the top ten men of the passed 4-5 years are still either in development, or proved to be cannon fodder. This is about the best of the best, not the best of the rest. So Klitschko is the lone man to move forward.

dempseyfire wrote:I'dd do Jack Renault for the 1920s and Billy Miske, Jim Coffey, Battling Levinsky, and Jeff Clark.

Charley Weinert might deserve a mention too in either the teens or the 20s.

Crease wrote:I actually did something VERY similar a few months back. I wanted to fight the best ten Heavyweights from the each decade in the most objective and impartial way possible. So what I did was:

I went through every year of The Ring Magazines Annual Heavyweight rankings and I put a very simple scoring system in place for boxers. It went like this:

Champ - 11 pts (if there was no Champion, then nobody got the full 11 pts)
1st - 10 pts
2nd - 9 pts
3rd - 8 pts
4th - 7 pts
5th - 6 pts
6th - 5 pts
7th - 4 pts
8th - 3 pts
9th - 2 pts
10th - 1 pt

I then collated all the scores of the fighters to have a comprehensive top 10 for his decade.
(Granted, the Ring Magazine's rankings didn't start until 1924, so its useless before that year)

It has some very interesting outcomes, just a brief summary of The Number One man from each decade:

20s Best Man was Jack Dempsey
30s Best Man was Max Schmeling
40s Best Man was Joe Louis
50s Best Man was Rocky Marciano
60s Best Man was Muhammad Ali (2nd was Floyd Patterson)
70s Best Man was Muhammad Ali (2nd was George Foreman)
80s Best Man was Larry Holmes
90s Best Man was Evander Holyfield
00s Best Man was Wladimir Klitschko

HomicideHenry wrote:Interesting analysis... we will have to do comparative notes between this tournament and yours... to see if the All-Time List matches that of the comprehensive top ten per decade list.