BoxRec

I was hoping that, in the interests of journalistic integrity, they would get this one right.

But, I must admit I knew better given what you see on Lampley's show. And of course HBO proved me right.

They had a chance to set the record straight, to accurately portray how the idea of Floyd running from this fight for 5 years was a myth, created mostly by Arum and Pac to take attention away from the truth- that it was mostly them walking away from negotiations over testing or money or ego.

I am not going to bother with every single inaccuracy in the propaganda piece, just a few of the tastier ones.

SPIN

1) The show makes a big point of Pac's victories over DLH and Hatton making him a mega-star.

Nothing wrong with this except they downplay how Floyd's defeats of the same men made him an even bigger star. Floyd's PPV numbers for both fights exceeded Pac's, with the DLH fight doing so by almost 2 to 1. Then they add insult to injury by having Mark Wahlberg comment about how Pac's victories over the same two men were "better" without bothering to mention how both DLH and Hatton were significantly diminished versions of the guys Floyd faced and beat.

HALF-TRUTHS

2) They portrayed the blood testing issue as coming up at the last minute. Yes and no. Prior to November of 2009, you heard allegations being made by many in the boxing community (not just Floyd Mayweather Sr.) that Manny might be "on something". But there were no calls for blood testing I can find before then. The broadcast tried to give the impression that all the details had been ironed out and then Floyd Jr. added blood testing at the last minute. The truth is, from the onset of real negotiations in the beginning of Nov. 2009, Floyd was calling for USADA testing. There are stories from early November quoting Freddie Roach as saying blood testing is not an issue when asked about Mayweather's unusual demand. Then, for some unexplained reason, the Pacquiao camp changed and were resistant to the tests.

3) The so called ghost negotiations (the second negotiation where Arum imposed a deadline for Floyd to accept ) were presented in as biased a manner as one can imagine. How can they show Mayweather (after the Shane fight) saying no USADA, no fight, then present little or no details of what supposedly was allegedly presented for Team Mayweather to agree to before the now infamous midnight deadline? If they had, then the truth- that what they were asking for agreement to WAS NOT random testing- would have explained the lack of a response. Of course, if you are not even negotiating, that would also explain a lack of response. So, it would have also helped a whole lot in the objectivity department if they had included Arum's own admission that he was aware of Floyd not being in ANY WAY onboard with these negotiations.

4) They presented the first flat 40 million dollar offer out of context as well. That offer took place months after the controversial 3rd JMM fight, a fight many ringside observers had Manny losing. Folks forget that after seeing the same JMM that Floyd had handled with ease do a schooling of Pacquiao, Pac's brand had taken a serious hit. 40 million, although it was not a fair offer, did represent what would have been Pac's biggest payday.
And it made sense in the same way the price of a once costly object goes south once some flaw is discovered that greatly devalues it. And his value was even more decreased by his next 2 fights- the controversial loss to Bradley that should have been a win and the KO loss to JMM. Not presenting Mayweather's offers in the context of these events is incredibly biased.

Bald-Faced Lies

5) There is an incredibly uncomfortable segment where Manny Pacquiao is sitting there staring into the camera talking about the Dec. 2009 negotiations and saying unequivocally that blood testing was not the issue then. This in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to his own statement released around the time and the statements of both his promoter and trainer. The implication Manny himself is making is that the impasse was not the reason the fight didn't happen when everyone knows it is the reason they walked away. The hypocrisy is further compounded later in the broadcast by having Manny and Roach say it isn't about testing then seconds later complain about Floyd trying to make up his own rules on testing protocols. Any moron can see it has to be one or the other, any moron except the editors of this broadcast at HBO...and the public they expect to swallow this crap.


All in all, a very disappointing broadcast. They had a chance to do things right, to present the truth and let THAT sell the fight. The truth would have been something "new" something for folks to talk about and debate.

All we have now is the same old lies and myths...

Well done. I was disappointed also....especially the parts where Pacquiao lied about the drug testing issue not being the reason they didn't fight. They should have brought up the catch-weight issues and as you mentioned the diminished state of the common opponents when Pacquiao faced them.

All that being said, the more they build Pac up before the fight, the better it will make Floyd look when it is done.

How many accounts do you need brut?

Badhusker wrote:Well done. I was disappointed also....especially the parts where Pacquiao lied about the drug testing issue not being the reason they didn't fight. They should have brought up the catch-weight issues and as you mentioned the diminished state of the common opponents when Pacquiao faced them.

All that being said, the more they build Pac up before the fight, the better it will make Floyd look when it is done.

this is for the casual fan, not for your purposes (a pacquiao hating loser) Fans dont care about that sh1t.

Rodian wrote:

Badhusker wrote:Well done. I was disappointed also....especially the parts where Pacquiao lied about the drug testing issue not being the reason they didn't fight. They should have brought up the catch-weight issues and as you mentioned the diminished state of the common opponents when Pacquiao faced them.

All that being said, the more they build Pac up before the fight, the better it will make Floyd look when it is done.

this is for the casual fan, not for your purposes (a pacquiao hating loser) Fans dont care about that sh1t.

I blame HBO for putting this stupid piece out there right now. This is a subject to bring up on the 10 year anniversary of the fight, not part of the build up. How does this piece of rubbish get anyone pumped up for this fight?

I wouldn't call anyone a loser but i do agree that most fans are over this. We've got the fight now so who gives a damn how it happened or who was right or wrong? The truth is always somewhere in the middle of everything you hear so i choose to think that each side had a hand it but i'm done thinking about it. I'm focused on who's doing what in camp right now because that's where this fight will be won.

http://youtu.be/XwbGSug-nJE --------------- watch this, you can't argue when it actually comes out of floyds mouth, this would hold up in a court of law, when you call yourself a rich coward for not fighting pacquaio, I'd call that an admission regarding ducking pacquaio, what else could it be

Pureist wrote:http://youtu.be/XwbGSug-nJE --------------- watch this, you can't argue when it actually comes out of floyds mouth, this would hold up in a court of law, when you call yourself a rich coward for not fighting pacquaio, I'd call that an admission regarding ducking pacquaio, what else could it be

It is not an admission of ducking, it is an admission by Floyd of what he consistently maintained from Dec. 2009: that without random blood testing there would be no fight.

Uploaded almost 2 and a half years after the first negotiation, and almost 2 years after the ghost negotiation, all this does is underline how much Manny waffled back and forth on drug testing. He'd maintain he agreed to testing, when in fact all he agreed to were dates he knew in advance. That aint random blood testing.

The fact that Manny did not use totally random testing until the Rios fight- over 4 years after he supposedly agreed to it- speaks more volumes than any video Floyd ever made.

Haven't had a chance to watch HBO's "Spin Off", but considering Pac is their fighter, of course they're going to be hyping Manny up and you're going to get one side of the story.

I watched Showtime's "Inside Mayweather vs. Pacquiao" and it focused on mainly on Floyd. He pretty much claims the only reason the fight is happening is because he made it happen for the fans. That and $$$$ of course.

I'm just glad the fight is finally on, and while at this point in there careers I think 40% for Manny is fair, there was a time when 50/50 completely legit. But you had 2 boxers/teams used to claiming 90% of the purse so even 50% would have been a loss for them. That and egos was why it never happened.

Now with so much hype and a $100 PPV it's the biggest payday out there. I'm just glad it's finally happening. And it's still as intriguing as it was 5 years ago.

koolkc107 wrote:I was hoping that, in the interests of journalistic integrity, they would get this one right.

But, I must admit I knew better given what you see on Lampley's show. And of course HBO proved me right.

They had a chance to set the record straight, to accurately portray how the idea of Floyd running from this fight for 5 years was a myth, created mostly by Arum and Pac to take attention away from the truth- that it was mostly them walking away from negotiations over testing or money or ego.

I am not going to bother with every single inaccuracy in the propaganda piece, just a few of the tastier ones.

SPIN

1) The show makes a big point of Pac's victories over DLH and Hatton making him a mega-star.

Nothing wrong with this except they downplay how Floyd's defeats of the same men made him an even bigger star. Floyd's PPV numbers for both fights exceeded Pac's, with the DLH fight doing so by almost 2 to 1. Then they add insult to injury by having Mark Wahlberg comment about how Pac's victories over the same two men were "better" without bothering to mention how both DLH and Hatton were significantly diminished versions of the guys Floyd faced and beat.

HALF-TRUTHS

2) They portrayed the blood testing issue as coming up at the last minute. Yes and no. Prior to November of 2009, you heard allegations being made by many in the boxing community (not just Floyd Mayweather Sr.) that Manny might be "on something". But there were no calls for blood testing I can find before then. The broadcast tried to give the impression that all the details had been ironed out and then Floyd Jr. added blood testing at the last minute. The truth is, from the onset of real negotiations in the beginning of Nov. 2009, Floyd was calling for USADA testing. There are stories from early November quoting Freddie Roach as saying blood testing is not an issue when asked about Mayweather's unusual demand. Then, for some unexplained reason, the Pacquiao camp changed and were resistant to the tests.

3) The so called ghost negotiations (the second negotiation where Arum imposed a deadline for Floyd to accept ) were presented in as biased a manner as one can imagine. How can they show Mayweather (after the Shane fight) saying no USADA, no fight, then present little or no details of what supposedly was allegedly presented for Team Mayweather to agree to before the now infamous midnight deadline? If they had, then the truth- that what they were asking for agreement to WAS NOT random testing- would have explained the lack of a response. Of course, if you are not even negotiating, that would also explain a lack of response. So, it would have also helped a whole lot in the objectivity department if they had included Arum's own admission that he was aware of Floyd not being in ANY WAY onboard with these negotiations.

4) They presented the first flat 40 million dollar offer out of context as well. That offer took place months after the controversial 3rd JMM fight, a fight many ringside observers had Manny losing. Folks forget that after seeing the same JMM that Floyd had handled with ease do a schooling of Pacquiao, Pac's brand had taken a serious hit. 40 million, although it was not a fair offer, did represent what would have been Pac's biggest payday.
And it made sense in the same way the price of a once costly object goes south once some flaw is discovered that greatly devalues it. And his value was even more decreased by his next 2 fights- the controversial loss to Bradley that should have been a win and the KO loss to JMM. Not presenting Mayweather's offers in the context of these events is incredibly biased.

Bald-Faced Lies

5) There is an incredibly uncomfortable segment where Manny Pacquiao is sitting there staring into the camera talking about the Dec. 2009 negotiations and saying unequivocally that blood testing was not the issue then. This in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to his own statement released around the time and the statements of both his promoter and trainer. The implication Manny himself is making is that the impasse was not the reason the fight didn't happen when everyone knows it is the reason they walked away. The hypocrisy is further compounded later in the broadcast by having Manny and Roach say it isn't about testing then seconds later complain about Floyd trying to make up his own rules on testing protocols. Any moron can see it has to be one or the other, any moron except the editors of this broadcast at HBO...and the public they expect to swallow this crap.


All in all, a very disappointing broadcast. They had a chance to do things right, to present the truth and let THAT sell the fight. The truth would have been something "new" something for folks to talk about and debate.

All we have now is the same old lies and myths...

Outstanding breakdown!!

I had to turn off that BS about half-way through after the bogus lies they covered on the blood testing issue, they never brought anyone in to counter anything that Arum said.

They made Arum looked like an innocent Angel, I almost vomited when I listened to the crap that they allowed to be said on their network, what a f*cking disgust they made of themselves.

Total buffoonery and bold, bald-faced lies.!!

HBO=Honest Bullsh*t Only!!

Thanks man.

I was so disgusted with what I saw I had to comment.

koolkc107 wrote:Thanks man.

I was so disgusted with what I saw I had to comment.

Everyone else saw it too but the problem is that many won't comment here on it because they are the idiots who buy into the hypocrisy and lies that HBO spews on a regular regarding this subject of Floyd and Manny.

KBB wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:Thanks man.

I was so disgusted with what I saw I had to comment.

Everyone else saw it too but the problem is that many won't comment here on it because they are the idiots who buy into the hypocrisy and lies that HBO spews on a regular regarding this subject of Floyd and Manny.

Well, even if you hate Floyd, you shouldn't want things to be represented untruthfully.

When they had the press conference, it seemed like both sides were facing reality.

There was no talk of anyone avoiding anything and it seemed all parties were lined up with the truth- that Floyd always wanted the fight.

But it seems that as we have gone on, it is like Roach and Arum and yes, even Pac, have to convince themselves that Floyd has been avoiding the fight all along.

Just the other day, you have Pac making some idiotic statement about Floyd not having anywhere else to run.

Before that, Roach with the equally nonsensical "Floyd Had TO Make The Fight" mantra.

All of this ignoring the truth of 5 years of Mayweather trying time and time again to make the fight, offering career paydays on at least 3 different occasions, going to court to have his jail report date moved to a later day to facilitate a May 2012 fight with Pac (that ended up being Cotto instead) that was rejected by Arum and Manny because of 2 different excuses that made no sense (a cut needed to heal and a stadium needed to be built), and on and on.

It is like they know what destruction Floyd is going to have in store for them May 2 and they are doing everything they can to convince THEMSELVES it wont happen...

koolkc107 wrote:

KBB wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:Thanks man.

I was so disgusted with what I saw I had to comment.

Everyone else saw it too but the problem is that many won't comment here on it because they are the idiots who buy into the hypocrisy and lies that HBO spews on a regular regarding this subject of Floyd and Manny.

Well, even if you hate Floyd, you shouldn't want things to be represented untruthfully.

When they had the press conference, it seemed like both sides were facing reality.

There was no talk of anyone avoiding anything and it seemed all parties were lined up with the truth- that Floyd always wanted the fight.

But it seems that as we have gone on, it is like Roach and Arum and yes, even Pac, have to convince themselves that Floyd has been avoiding the fight all along.

Just the other day, you have Pac making some idiotic statement about Floyd not having anywhere else to run.

Before that, Roach with the equally nonsensical "Floyd Had TO Make The Fight" mantra.

All of this ignoring the truth of 5 years of Mayweather trying time and time again to make the fight, offering career paydays on at least 3 different occasions, going to court to have his jail report date moved to a later day to facilitate a May 2012 fight with Pac (that ended up being Cotto instead) that was rejected by Arum and Manny because of 2 different excuses that made no sense (a cut needed to heal and a stadium needed to be built), and on and on.

It is like they know what destruction Floyd is going to have in store for them May 2 and they are doing everything they can to convince THEMSELVES it wont happen...

It wasn't just career paydays, at that time it was the Largest Purse Offer In Boxing History!!

Some people don't want to hear or read the truth on this because it suits their egos to say that "Floyd is a duck or that he was ducking Manny" and that soothes them to believe that Floyd was so scared that he has been running from Manny.

It's amazing how in face of the facts out there like this http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--fl ... fight.html

That people continually perpetuate the lies and hypocrisy regarding this subject.

It is like a balanced view is too much to ask if it doesn't jibe with their hero worship.

Could Floyd have adopted a softer stance on some things and made the fight a while ago?

Of course he could have. But that is not the same as running or avoiding a fight.

No one accused Pac of running or avoiding JMM, even though after every single fight folks wanted an immediate rematch.

4 years between the first and second fight. 3 and 1/2 between the 2nd and 3rd.

Almost 8 years to do 2 fights that should have took place in a much shorter timespan.

But no one said Manny was avoiding anything though it is clear he was.

koolkc107 wrote:It is like a balanced view is too much to ask if it doesn't jibe with their hero worship.

Could Floyd have adopted a softer stance on some things and made the fight a while ago?

Of course he could have. But that is not the same as running or avoiding a fight.

No one accused Pac of running or avoiding JMM, even though after every single fight folks wanted an immediate rematch.

4 years between the first and second fight. 3 and 1/2 between the 2nd and 3rd.

Almost 8 years to do 2 fights that should have took place in a much shorter timespan.

But no one said Manny was avoiding anything though it is clear he was.

Furthermore no one accused Manny of being a Duck when he rightfully refused the blood testing

No one accused Manny of trying to duck when he instituted the 10 million dollar per pound penalty if Floyd came in over the weight limit for their fight.

The problem with most/the vast majority of Pacquiao fans is that they have NO/ZERO objectivity whatsoever, notice how they are avoiding this entire thread and they hate it and hate you when you tell the truth around here because they love to come back with personal and childish insults like a little 3rd grade girl when you say something factual and they have nothing tangible to refute it with.

fergusg wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:HBO's "At Last": Spin, Half Truths, And Bald-Faced Lies

Hasn’t Manny Pacquiao been affiliated to HBO for far more than a decade? Didn’t Floyd Mayweather Jr. jump ship from HBO to bitter rival Showtime a couple of years ago or so? Do you think that HBO aren’t being completely neutral from a journalistic perspective when they produced the “AT LAST” documentary? :??

If you are trying to present it as journalism, as an accurate chronicle of what it took to make the fight happen?

Then yes, you need to be neutral and objective.

I don't mind the Pac fans hating.

I only have to put up with it for a couple more weeks.

Then they will be forever silenced.

fergusg wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:I only have to put up with it for a couple more weeks.

Then they will be forever silenced.

I really don’t think that the anti-Mayweather brigade will be silenced if Money May successfully overcomes the challenge posed by Manny Pacquiao. They’ll find a way to criticise him regardless as to whether or not he wins his 48th fight.

Upon further review, fergusg's take of Pac fans finding SOMETHING to complain about NO MATTER WHAT holds MUCH MORE likelihood than my otherwise sensible take of them finally being quiet.

For a moment, I mistakenly assumed logic had something to do with it.

I stand corrected...

Ricky_ wrote:How many accounts do you need brut?

hahaha to true, but its a lot i think

it was never going to be accurate. Showtime barely even mentioned pacquiao. They will both continue to be bias, but it will all be irrelevant. Showtime will likely come out better as Mayweather will likely win and as the ol song goes, the winner takes it all'

95gerog wrote:it was never going to be accurate. Showtime barely even mentioned pacquiao. They will both continue to be bias, but it will all be irrelevant. Showtime will likely come out better as Mayweather will likely win and as the ol song goes, the winner takes it all'

I have yet to view the Showtime version.

But, I am guessing it doesn't contain as much misleading information as the HBO version.

95gerog wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:How many accounts do you need brut?

hahaha to true, but its a lot i think

Ask the Moderators how many accounts I have here and I guarantee that he will tell you that I only have this one, they banned the Brut account so I have never came here as any other name.

It's guys like Ricky that has multiple account and for all I know you (95gerog) are Ricky, you see how easy this works??

How many accounts do you and Ricky have?

I challenge you to contact any moderator and ask them how many accounts I have here. You guys are just pissed because there is someone else who doesn't see things the way you see them.

not pissed at all actually, amused. Ricky and i have never been seen in the same room together so maybe you're onto something

koolkc107 wrote:

Pureist wrote:http://youtu.be/XwbGSug-nJE --------------- watch this, you can't argue when it actually comes out of floyds mouth, this would hold up in a court of law, when you call yourself a rich coward for not fighting pacquaio, I'd call that an admission regarding ducking pacquaio, what else could it be

It is not an admission of ducking, it is an admission by Floyd of what he consistently maintained from Dec. 2009: that without random blood testing there would be no fight.

Uploaded almost 2 and a half years after the first negotiation, and almost 2 years after the ghost negotiation, all this does is underline how much Manny waffled back and forth on drug testing. He'd maintain he agreed to testing, when in fact all he agreed to were dates he knew in advance. That aint random blood testing.

The fact that Manny did not use totally random testing until the Rios fight- over 4 years after he supposedly agreed to it- speaks more volumes than any video Floyd ever made.

No, that's a duck, no question about it, pacquaio has never tested positive, ever, it's a duck, pacquaio agreed to a sample being taken straight after the fight, do you think in the space of 45 minutes any trace of peds would disappear, floyd was ducking, as for KBB saying about the 10 million penalty, do you remember what weight he came in at for JMM, he has history

As far as talking about common opponents I hate when people are so biased with their agenda. Yes, Pac beat Hatton, Cotto and Oscar much easier than Floyd beat them. Truths. But you could also argue that Pac fought a diminished Oscar and Hatton. However, Manny had 4 BRUTAL fights with JMM, and arguably lost more than he won against a guy who Floyd completely dominated. I'm tired of hearing people talk about this fight with their one sided BS. I really dont care what anyone has to say at this point. Just get these guys in the damn ring.

diddy wrote:As far as talking about common opponents I hate when people are so biased with their agenda. Yes, Pac beat Hatton, Cotto and Oscar much easier than Floyd beat them. Truths. But you could also argue that Pac fought a diminished Oscar and Hatton. However, Manny had 4 BRUTAL fights with JMM, and arguably lost more than he won against a guy who Floyd completely dominated. I'm tired of hearing people talk about this fight with their one sided BS. I really dont care what anyone has to say at this point. Just get these guys in the damn ring.

I agree!!!!
We have argued this fight to death for 5 plus years.It is time to just sit back and wait for May 2nd.

Then we can argue the result for the next 5 years