BoxRec

handsofstone wrote:I'm not psychic but I'd hazard a guess he's American

Caractacus wrote:

handsofstone wrote:I'm not psychic but I'd hazard a guess he's American

Nah,Ive seen a pic of him and he has Big Ears and Bad Teeth
so no doubt he is a Brit.

TheDennisMoore wrote:I'M new here but in this thread there are people who know about boxing and others who are clueless.Joe Frazier is only a foil to Ali and any real punchers would slap him silly like Foreman did.He had trouble with Oscar Ie Ringo Bonavena who was shot and killed in a brothel.Fraziers only win of note was against Ali.Jimmy Ellis Jerry Quarry are glass jawed fighters made to order for Frazier.Bonavena almost beat him.Bonavina had above average power.Frazier like Patterson was carefully managed and the likes of Shavers Lyle were kept from him until they took Foreman and Frazier was pummelled into Oblivion.Liston a more skilled and harder puncher than Big George would knock Frazier out in round 1 in 1-3 knockdowns.Liston would have crushed Ali if the mob and boxing powers did not order Liston to take a dive.Newly realeased FBI reports from the time said that the fight was fixed from spying the FBi was doing at the time due to reports that the fight was being fixed before the fight.We are talikng the first fight not the blantant obvious phatom Punch fix of the seecond fight.Frazier camp would not even consider fighting liston post Ali fights because Fraziers camp knew punchers would starch smoking Joe.Frazier was like Norton a good foil for boxers but a feast for any good punching heavyweights.

TheDennisMoore wrote:I used to believe Ali was the greatest but being older now and watching his fights and how his career was launched on two fixed fights.If the first Liston fight was not fixed Ali at least for the time right after would have been thought of as either a big mouth clown or a funny self promoter who really didn't believe what he was saying but liked to entertain to pump up the gate and the take home pay.The second group would think that he was worth watching reguardless of the quality of opponent.From a business point it was obvious post Marciano the sport was dying Patterson was an over protected pretender who Liston exposed.Liston to most was a detestable thug with mob ties who had to go.Enter young Cassius Clay a charasmatic, annoying,enertaining fast handed fan producing curiousity who like Howard Cosell got the coins cha chinging because young Cassius was loved and hated and not ignored.This means money.Money changes everything especially in boxing.Ali is one of the greatest but if they didn't fix the first Liston fight he may not have won a title until his draft battle was over.I think that Ali would have beaten Frazier if he had the title.But someone else would have to dispose of Liston and frazier would not have been able to.Foreman sparred with Liston and wanted no part of him.Liston of course could have self destructed which would be the most likely.Somewhere around the time he was murdered would be my guess.Liston was killed because of a knockout of another alledged mob controlled fighter Chuck Webner the famed bayonne bleeder who Liston cut to ribbons.Keep in mind Webner was not a great puncher or a skilled boxer yet in 1975 gave ALI lots of trouble because of his chin.This wasn't a case of styles making fights.A forty something Liston destroyed Webner 5 years earlier and Ali barely beat the same guy five years later.Ali s skills diminished some but it shows just how much better Liston was than ALI.

TheDennisMoore wrote:Its sad that Hagler like esau of the bible sold his legacy for a bowl of soup.The fix he performed in the Leonard fight was pathetic.Hagler pitty patted his punches whenever Leonard could be hit after his long runs around the ring.Hagler was always resentfull that he never got the really big money.He dominated his division and the only marketable matches were welterweights and junior middleweights.He took the money and ran and hid from shame in Italy to become the David Hasslehoff of Italy.A fourth rate actor in Italy.I think Hagler is self loathing since.He had a good name and reputation,a legacy and he chucked it for a big payday.Leonard a fourth rate Ali Clone whole career was based on fixes.The early Stoppages of Benitez and Ayub Kylule and Hearns,the outright screwing of hearns in the second fight,the badly fixed no mas fight,the slightly better fixed uno mas fight.The crowinng fix is the Hagler fix which deceives the ignorant fight fans into calling Leonard an alltime great or legend.Leonard was only good at running away possed no punching or boxing skills.Note to ignorant boxing fans running is not skill its running.Skillfull fighters like Hagler Duran and even hearns can slip punches and feight.Leonard just ran.Running should not score points no more than clinching would on a judges scorecard.The whole Ray lenord the master of pysch jobs and strategy master is laughable.Again another feeble attempt to somehow ride Alis coat tails.Duran was not tormented by Leonard acting like a pompous ass in the no mas fight.Duran was supposed to lay down got pissed at Leonard overdoing his role and said No mas Ill quit instead of laying down.Leonards numerous stories of how he knew he could come back and beat Hagler.Story one he saw how diminished hagler looked against Mugabi,story two he watched how duran fought Hagler and used that strategy of lead right hands.Three he figured it out himself.I know like aAli Liston one of these fixes will come out in an FBI report someday in the next 10-15 years.