BoxRec

Posted: **22 Apr 2015, 19:17**

fergusg wrote:In less than 22 months, between November 1979 and September 1981, Sugar Ray Leonard:
• Competed in seven world title fights
• Captured the WBC 147lb world welterweight title by inflicting the first defeat on the unbeaten future Hall-of-Famer Wilfred Benitez's record
• Engaged in two bouts (against a man considered an all-time great) Roberto Duran, losing the first and then regained his world WBC 147lb belt by making his Panamanian rival quit
• Became the first man to not only defeat but stop the undefeated Ayub Kalule to win a world title at a second weight division (at 154lbs)
• Competed in a Ring Magazine Fight of the Year when he stopped the legendary Thomas Hearns to add the WBA belt to his WBC 147lbs world title

In nine days’ time, after six years of frustration and false promises, the world will finally get to see Floyd Mayweather Jr. & Manny Pacquiao share the ring!

When you consider what Sugar Ray Leonard achieved in 656 days, in comparison to fighters in the modern era, do you ever wish that the sport of boxing today could change and return to what it once was 35 years ago? :??

Do you think the fighter that emerges victorious in the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight deserves more praise for their achievement than Sugar Ray Leonard received when he defeated the undefeated Tommy Hearns in 1981?

Well you also have to factor in the ugly for SRL if you are going to do the pretty:

He never faced Pryor

It took him XXXXX amount of years before he finally saw enough slippage in Hagler to finally face him, this is as worse as it was for Manny to finally stop ducking Mayweather to finally face him.

He made Lalonde drain down to a ridiculous weight in order to fight for Donny's title.

He didn't win vs Hearns in the rematch no matter what the decision was

He got his ass handed to him by Norris and Camacho at a time in his career where both Floyd and Manny are still going strong.

I don't see that much of a difference in his time and now with the things that has gone on then are seemingly still going on today (look how Manny drained Cotto down for Miguel's title at a CW).

What has changed???

Posted: **22 Apr 2015, 19:28**

fergusg wrote:Donny Lalonde still maintains today that the so-called "weight loss" for the Sugar Ray Leonard fight wasn't an issue for him, as he only had to lose a few pounds... nothing "ridiculous" happened in that catchweight contest!

Aaron Pryor was competing in a different weight division to Ray Leonard.

When the boxers weighed in on the morning of the fight, Leonard's weight was announced as 165 pounds, two pounds lighter than Lalonde. He said in the postfight press conference, however, that his true weight was 159-and-a-half pounds. Leonard, who had weighed in wearing a track suit, said he had secretly placed weights in each pocket.

https://books.google.com/books?id=O8LSB ... ed&f=false

Posted: **22 Apr 2015, 22:40**

fergusg wrote:@KBB - Donny Lalonde still maintains today that the so-called "weight loss" for the Sugar Ray Leonard fight wasn't an issue for him, as he only had to lose a few pounds... nothing "ridiculous" happened in that catchweight contest!

Aaron Pryor was competing in a different weight division to Ray Leonard.

Sugar Ray's period of prolonged inactivity was caused by a detached retina... and he was still a massive underdog for the Hagler fight. In fact, they were concerned about Ray's very well-being!

You really need to try harder!

Lalonde said he felt weakened back when this fight was going on, everyone who is anyone knows that Pryor vs Leonard was the fight but Ray was too scared to go down that road because he know how badly The Hawk was beating him in sparring, knocking him down on a regular.

You're right about Ray being an underdog to Hagler and you're right about Leonard being concerned about his well-being, that is exactly why he ducked him for so many years and deliberately waited until Hagler slowed down (this he openly admitted on the show with Stephen A. Smith).

I don't need to try harder, I've already proven my point that nothing much has changed, SRL ducked Hagler and Pryor just as Manny has ducked Floyd for all these years.

Your original post was in reference to how things were then and all I did was shed a little light on the situation to show you that there hasn't been much change since then.

Posted: **23 Apr 2015, 02:15**

Posted: **23 Apr 2015, 10:23**

fergusg wrote:None of what you've said is correct. None of it is relevant to what actually occured in the real world.

I know it must hurt your heart to hear this about your hero (Leonard).

SRL admitted that he waited til Hagler got a little older on the show he did with Stephen A. Smith, go look at the one they had him on talking about Floyd vs Manny, he clearly stated it.

You said that Pryor and him wasn't in the same weight class, I know this but that did not matter; The Hawk would've moved up or down to fight anyone and that was a fight that could've been easily made back then.

Pryor calling Leonard out- www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcIMjktBrU

Lalonde admitting weight was a factor and being overtrained: http://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/no ... s-on/20464

Everything I stated occurred in the real world, you just refused to accept or acknowledge it. I have nothing against SRL but I always keep it 100 and not allow my personal admiration of the fighters I like to get in the way of the truth about them.

Posted: **23 Apr 2015, 10:41**

Leonard essentially had two careers. His post-Hagler career he was clearly just trying to make as much money as possible and physically and mentally was not the same young man who of the late 70s/early 80s.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 09:44**

fergusg wrote:Once again, I have debunked all the nonsense that you’ve tried to perpetuate.

You didn't debunk anything, I debunked your nonsense and you came back with things like Lalonde contradicting himself, how can in one article he state "the weight thing was an issue" and then in the next "it wasn't an issue"?

Furthermore, as far as SRL vs MMH, if you claim all that, then why did it take him 5 years to finally grow the balls to face him?

The real story on Pryor vs Leonard: http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/07/aar ... ned-twice/

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 09:54**

fergusg wrote:
KBB wrote:
fergusg wrote:@KBB - Donny Lalonde still maintains today that the so-called "weight loss" for the Sugar Ray Leonard fight wasn't an issue for him, as he only had to lose a few pounds... nothing "ridiculous" happened in that catchweight contest!

Aaron Pryor was competing in a different weight division to Ray Leonard.

Sugar Ray's period of prolonged inactivity was caused by a detached retina... and he was still a massive underdog for the Hagler fight. In fact, they were concerned about Ray's very well-being!

You really need to try harder!
Lalonde said he felt weakened back when this fight was going on, everyone who is anyone knows that Pryor vs Leonard was the fight but Ray was too scared to go down that road because he know how badly The Hawk was beating him in sparring, knocking him down on a regular.

You're right about Ray being an underdog to Hagler and you're right about Leonard being concerned about his well-being, that is exactly why he ducked him for so many years and deliberately waited until Hagler slowed down (this he openly admitted on the show with Stephen A. Smith).

I don't need to try harder, I've already proven my point that nothing much has changed, SRL ducked Hagler and Pryor just as Manny has ducked Floyd for all these years.

Your original post was in reference to how things were then and all I did was shed a little light on the situation to show you that there hasn't been much change since then.
None of what you've said is correct. None of it is relevant to what actually occured in the real world.

It rarely is. Once you block his posts, threads become a whole lot clearer.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 11:15**

KBB wrote:
fergusg wrote:@KBB - Donny Lalonde still maintains today that the so-called "weight loss" for the Sugar Ray Leonard fight wasn't an issue for him, as he only had to lose a few pounds... nothing "ridiculous" happened in that catchweight contest!

Aaron Pryor was competing in a different weight division to Ray Leonard.

Sugar Ray's period of prolonged inactivity was caused by a detached retina... and he was still a massive underdog for the Hagler fight. In fact, they were concerned about Ray's very well-being!

You really need to try harder!
Lalonde said he felt weakened back when this fight was going on, everyone who is anyone knows that Pryor vs Leonard was the fight but Ray was too scared to go down that road because he know how badly The Hawk was beating him in sparring, knocking him down on a regular.

You're right about Ray being an underdog to Hagler and you're right about Leonard being concerned about his well-being, that is exactly why he ducked him for so many years and deliberately waited until Hagler slowed down (this he openly admitted on the show with Stephen A. Smith).

I don't need to try harder, I've already proven my point that nothing much has changed, SRL ducked Hagler and Pryor just as Manny has ducked Floyd for all these years.

Your original post was in reference to how things were then and all I did was shed a little light on the situation to show you that there hasn't been much change since then.

Incredible - Hagler was a naturally bigger man, a ATG middleweight, and Leonard hadn't fought in what - 4 years? Of course Leonard waited until he saw signs - FFS! Cut the guy some slack, the fact he came out of a long period of inactivity to beat Hagler is incredible, it's not like Hagler was shot is it?

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 11:23**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Incredible - Hagler was a naturally bigger man, a ATG middleweight, and Leonard hadn't fought in what - 4 years? Of course Leonard waited until he saw signs - FFS! Cut the guy some slack, the fact he came out of a long period of inactivity to beat Hagler is incredible, it's not like Hagler was shot is it?

Hagler wasn't shot but he wasn't the same MMH that beat Mugabi now was he? Furthermore I thought MMH won that fight but was robbed, SRL did not do enough to take the title away from the Champ, all that shoe shining and flamboyant crap he was doing was just a show for the people to influence the judges with their cheers.

Anyone who is totally unbiased will tell you SRL lost that fight, even Marvin admitted than Sugar whispered in his own ear and told him "man, you beat me, you won that fight".

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 11:27**

KBB wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Incredible - Hagler was a naturally bigger man, a ATG middleweight, and Leonard hadn't fought in what - 4 years? Of course Leonard waited until he saw signs - FFS! Cut the guy some slack, the fact he came out of a long period of inactivity to beat Hagler is incredible, it's not like Hagler was shot is it?
Hagler wasn't shot but he wasn't the same MMH that beat Mugabi now was he? Furthermore I thought MMH won that fight but was robbed, SRL did not do enough to take the title away from the Champ, all that shoe shining and flamboyant crap he was doing was just a show for the people to influence the judges with their cheers.

Anyone who is totally unbiased will tell you SRL lost that fight, even Marvin admitted than Sugar whispered in his own ear and told him "man, you beat me, you won that fight".

totally disagree - I've watched the fight many times, and I thought Leonard boxed his ears off, Hagler looked all at sea for much of the fight, and whilst he landed the more telling blows in the main, there just weren't enough of them. In round 11, Leonard was giving him a right pasting, it was by far the most dominant round either fight had.

Marvin 'admitted' that did he - how noble of him - I don't suppose it could possibly have been a self serving comment to prop up his ego.

I was a huge Hagler fan, I didn't really like Leonard back in the day, thought he was too fancy, so I was far from biased. Watching the fight I booed the decision, but watching it again on replay many times, I realised that I was just sore that Ray beat one of my heroes.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 11:41**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:totally disagree - I've watched the fight many times, and I thought Leonard boxed his ears off, Hagler looked all at sea for much of the fight, and whilst he landed the more telling blows in the main, there just weren't enough of them. In round 11, Leonard was giving him a right pasting, it was by far the most dominant round either fight had.

Marvin 'admitted' that did he - how noble of him - I don't suppose it could possibly have been a self serving comment to prop up his ego.

I was a huge Hagler fan, I didn't really like Leonard back in the day, thought he was too fancy, so I was far from biased. Watching the fight I booed the decision, but watching it again on replay many times, I realised that I was just sore that Ray beat one of my heroes.

I've watched the fight many times too and I don't see SRL doing anything but winning over the crowd with flashy combos that weren't landing and definitely wasn't hurting Marvin, sure Leonard won the crowd over ----he was supposed to win because he was the "Pretty Boy/The Good Guy".

I think most people just got caught up in the showboating Leonard was doing and they judged the fight based on all of that, I wasn't impressed and found it quite disgraceful for him to result to gimmicks and showmanship in order to win the fight.

I liked both guys but it's obvious that Leonard didn't do nearly enough to actually "beat" the man who was the Champion.....they gave it to Leonard.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 11:45**

KBB wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:totally disagree - I've watched the fight many times, and I thought Leonard boxed his ears off, Hagler looked all at sea for much of the fight, and whilst he landed the more telling blows in the main, there just weren't enough of them. In round 11, Leonard was giving him a right pasting, it was by far the most dominant round either fight had.

Marvin 'admitted' that did he - how noble of him - I don't suppose it could possibly have been a self serving comment to prop up his ego.

I was a huge Hagler fan, I didn't really like Leonard back in the day, thought he was too fancy, so I was far from biased. Watching the fight I booed the decision, but watching it again on replay many times, I realised that I was just sore that Ray beat one of my heroes.
I've watched the fight many times too and I don't see SRL doing anything but winning over the crowd with flashy combos that weren't landing and definitely wasn't hurting Marvin, sure Leonard won the crowd over ----he was supposed to win because he was the "Pretty Boy/The Good Guy".

I think most people just got caught up in the showboating Leonard was doing and they judged the fight based on all of that, I wasn't impressed and found it quite disgraceful for him to result to gimmicks and showmanship in order to win the fight.

I liked both guys but it's obvious that Leonard didn't do nearly enough to actually "beat" the man who was the Champion.....they gave it to Leonard.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 11:46**

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.

Yep!

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 12:02**

To be fair to Pac there were a number of years in his career in which he was creating his own golden era...in many ways at least as good as Leonard's achievements.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 12:19**

Ezzard wrote:To be fair to Pac there were a number of years in his career in which he was creating his own golden era...in many ways at least as good as Leonard's achievements.

The original OP's post was that this Golden Era all the best were fighting the best and he thinks that isn't happening which means that boxing isn't the same but he really only focused on one man (SRL) and I get it that he likes the guy but he totally digressed from his original topic because all he wanted to do is highlight his hero to which I showed his theory of the Golden Era and how nothing has really changed from then to now.

The use the same gloves, same size rings, with the exception of a few different weight classes all else remains the same. We didn't get to see many of the best not facing other greats and today is no exception to that as well.

He wrote this:

In nine days’ time, after six years of frustration and false promises, the world will finally get to see Floyd Mayweather Jr. & Manny Pacquiao share the ring!

When you consider what Sugar Ray Leonard achieved in 656 days, in comparison to fighters in the modern era, do you ever wish that the sport of boxing today could change and return to what it once was 35 years ago? :??

I broke that down to the fact that SRL took years of ducking to finally face Hagler, never faced Pryor just as Jones took years of ducking the Hopkins' rematch to finally face him. I can cite many instances of way back when of many of the greats never facing one another, hell even Hearns never faced Pryor in the Pros but did in the AMs.

So what has changed??

Not much IMHO.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 12:38**

fergusg wrote:In less than 22 months, between November 1979 and September 1981, Sugar Ray Leonard:
• Competed in seven world title fights
• Captured the WBC 147lb world welterweight title by inflicting the first defeat on the unbeaten future Hall-of-Famer Wilfred Benitez's record
• Engaged in two bouts (against a man considered an all-time great) Roberto Duran, losing the first and then regained his world WBC 147lb belt by making his Panamanian rival quit
• Became the first man to not only defeat but stop the undefeated Ayub Kalule to win a world title at a second weight division (at 154lbs)
• Competed in a Ring Magazine Fight of the Year when he stopped the legendary and unbeaten Thomas Hearns to add the WBA belt to his WBC 147lbs world title

In nine days’ time, after six years of frustration and false promises, the world will finally get to see Floyd Mayweather Jr. & Manny Pacquiao share the ring!

When you consider what Sugar Ray Leonard achieved in 656 days, in comparison to fighters in the modern era, do you ever wish that the sport of boxing today could change and return to what it once was 35 years ago? :??

Do you think the fighter that emerges victorious in the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight deserves more praise for their achievement than Sugar Ray Leonard received when he defeated the undefeated Tommy Hearns in 1981?

nostalgia is a common thing at all times. you can
rest assured that at the time of SRL's run, a solid
portion of the experts dreamed of the good all days
when the real sugar ray was roaming the earth.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 16:44**

fergusg wrote:Your recollection of history clearly does not reflect the historical events that actually took place!

Hell! You persistently claim that Lalonde was weight-drained when he fought Leonard, but you then ignore Donny's very own words refuting your claims!

My recollection is fine about history, your love for Leonard blinds you to the fact that you cannot use his detached retina as an excuse not to make a fight between him and all the top fighters. You gave him a pass on Hagler, how long was his retina detached? How long did that take to heal?

You gave him another pass on Pryor with the same lame retina excuse, what, did his retina never heal to the point where they could've fought at some point afterwards?? As far as Lalonde, I posted something where he stated "weight was an issue" and you posted something where he contradicted that, so does that make either of us correct on this??

Your entire thread was off point because you still have yet to tell us what is so different about boxing today that somehow makes yesterday so much better. You used SRL to make your case and that was disputed and you have not proven anything beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 17:49**

Have to log in just to filter-out KBB's idiotic posts, which otherwise ruin every thread and the forum as a whole.

Posted: **24 Apr 2015, 18:10**

Lackeos wrote:Have to log in just to filter-out KBB's idiotic posts, which otherwise ruin every thread and the forum as a whole.

Posted: **25 Apr 2015, 09:55**

Pryor never fought at welterweight and would have had almost no chance to beat Leonard.

Clearly the guy who makes the money always gets to load the dice. But it's taken to the extreme today.

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