BoxRec

i am reading the book about mike tyson and there is one story i like in particular and that is tyson vs bonecrusher, where tyson had problems punching bonecrusher at all, because as soon as tyson came close to him or tried to engage in a fight bonecrusher started crabing or holding and mills lane deducted a point for excessive holding around the 6 round i think it was.

all i am saying is, back than refferys did their fu$&ing job, they did what they are suppossed to do, what is written in the rules of boxing "you do not hold excessivly" or you get a warning, point deduction or dq.

imagine refferys from today doing their job, wlad would have around 10 DQ losses on his record (i am just saying povetkin fight, people realy didnt know for sure if they were seeing a boxing or wrestling match). mayweather would have had a point deduction, maybe even 2 point deduction in the second maidana fight, for excessive crabing and holding with mostly his elbows. it would certainly ended as a win for maidana on close points or draw.

I've seen plenty of pre- Tyson era fights where there was a lot of holding and never heard the ref. warn a single fighter or take a point from a fighter. Watch Ali/Spinks II, Ali held as much as Klitschko normally does in fights and was never warned or deducted a point. Hell in the Ali/Norton fights Ali pushed off more than Khan did in the Peterson fight and was never once warned or deducted a point. This old school refrees doing their job and todays referees doing a horrible job is a bunch of bullshit. There are so many fights I could use as a example to completely contradict the entire purpose of this thread. Todays boxing is a lot more like boxing from 30 years ago than it is different, I honestly do wonder if some people on this forum know fornicate all about boxing. I hate to question some peoples knowledge and intelligence but god damn some people on here make it too damn easy. lol

NateJR wrote:I've seen plenty of pre- Tyson era fights where there was a lot of holding and never heard the ref. warn a single fighter or take a point from a fighter. Watch Ali/Spinks II, Ali held as much as Klitschko normally does in fights and was never warned or deducted a point. Hell in the Ali/Norton fights Ali pushed off more than Khan did in the Peterson fight and was never once warned or deducted a point. This old school refrees doing their job and todays referees doing a horrible job is a bunch of bullshit. There are so many fights I could use as a example to completely contradict the entire purpose of this thread. Todays boxing is a lot more like boxing from 30 years ago than it is different, I honestly do wonder if some people on this forum know eff all about boxing. I hate to question some peoples knowledge and intelligence but god damn some people on here make it too damn easy. lol

yeah, but because ali was the superstar it way okay or what

my point is, i liked that part of the book and when the reffery steps into the ring, there should be no superstar or champion bonus, just fair refferying, thats all. and that goes for anybody, if manny starts out of the blue holding and crabing, than deduct him a freaking point. its boxing, you move, you punch, you step in, you step out, you move your upper body, you show some footwork and some times (but not always) you can crab or hold, but not excessivly, thats boxing. if you dont like it this way, than start greco roman wrestling or scrapple on the floor of a ufc octagon

Article Link - http://www.BS.com/shane-camero ... z3YDcYWRr1
This is a legal waiver.

In his first fight since being blown out in two rounds last October by David Tua, heavyweight contender Shane Cameron (24-2, 20 KOs) beat John Hopoate (12-5, 11 KOs) by disqualification at the Flemington Racecourse in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Australian referee Malcolm Bulmer stopped the fight 43-seconds into the second round of their fight, scheduled for ten rounds, because Hopoate refused to stop holding and wrestling from the start of the contest. He was issued warning for the holding/wrestling and even continued to do so after a final warning was issued.--------------- exactly how a ref should handle it

Pureist wrote:Article Link - http://www.BS.com/shane-camero ... z3YDcYWRr1
This is a legal waiver.

In his first fight since being blown out in two rounds last October by David Tua, heavyweight contender Shane Cameron (24-2, 20 KOs) beat John Hopoate (12-5, 11 KOs) by disqualification at the Flemington Racecourse in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Australian referee Malcolm Bulmer stopped the fight 43-seconds into the second round of their fight, scheduled for ten rounds, because Hopoate refused to stop holding and wrestling from the start of the contest. He was issued warning for the holding/wrestling and even continued to do so after a final warning was issued.--------------- exactly how a ref should handle it

exactly

because for a tall guy like wlad it is easy to jab and than as soon as the opponent comes close to grab and hold, it is a big advantage and illegal, therefore, like i said, either wlad would have much more dq losses or he would end up being brewstered

Have you ever had a thought that didn't involve Floyd?

NateJR wrote:I've seen plenty of pre- Tyson era fights where there was a lot of holding and never heard the ref. warn a single fighter or take a point from a fighter. Watch Ali/Spinks II, Ali held as much as Klitschko normally does in fights and was never warned or deducted a point. Hell in the Ali/Norton fights Ali pushed off more than Khan did in the Peterson fight and was never once warned or deducted a point. This old school refrees doing their job and todays referees doing a horrible job is a bunch of bullshit. There are so many fights I could use as a example to completely contradict the entire purpose of this thread. Todays boxing is a lot more like boxing from 30 years ago than it is different, I honestly do wonder if some people on this forum know eff all about boxing. I hate to question some peoples knowledge and intelligence but god damn some people on here make it too damn easy. lol

The only Ali fight that even is in Klitschko territory for holding is the Frazier rematch (and I would've deducted a point). But it pales to the amount of clinching Wlad did vs Povetkin, Thompson (first fight), Peter etc.

To see the amount of clinching Wlad does you really have to go back to the pre-1920s era, when guys were fighting in 5-6 ounce gloves and fights could exceed 20 rounds.

If you are going to call what Floyd did (which was tying up) holding then it's painfully obvious to me that you've never watched a John Ruiz fight.

Ali was the greatest, but he got away with holding Foreman and Frazier way too much.

Foreman had points taken away for pushing while Jimmy Young was allowed to hold all he wanted. So I hear you.

Tony1244 wrote:Ali was the greatest, but he got away with holding Foreman and Frazier way too much.

Foreman had points taken away for pushing while Jimmy Young was allowed to hold all he wanted. So I hear you.

NateJR wrote:I've seen plenty of pre- Tyson era fights where there was a lot of holding and never heard the ref. warn a single fighter or take a point from a fighter. Watch Ali/Spinks II, Ali held as much as Klitschko normally does in fights and was never warned or deducted a point. Hell in the Ali/Norton fights Ali pushed off more than Khan did in the Peterson fight and was never once warned or deducted a point. This old school refrees doing their job and todays referees doing a horrible job is a bunch of bullshit. There are so many fights I could use as a example to completely contradict the entire purpose of this thread. Todays boxing is a lot more like boxing from 30 years ago than it is different, I honestly do wonder if some people on this forum know eff all about boxing. I hate to question some peoples knowledge and intelligence but god damn some people on here make it too damn easy. lol

thnx.

Tony1244 wrote:Ali was the greatest, but he got away with holding Foreman and Frazier way too much.

Foreman had points taken away for pushing while Jimmy Young was allowed to hold all he wanted. So I hear you.

And let's not forget how Foreman always pushed off with both hands like he did vs Frazier in their bout.

KBB wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:Ali was the greatest, but he got away with holding Foreman and Frazier way too much.

Foreman had points taken away for pushing while Jimmy Young was allowed to hold all he wanted. So I hear you.

And let's not forget how Foreman always pushed off with both hands like he did vs Frazier in their bout.

I remember something pretty funny on that. Eddie Futch complained to the ref before Foreman-Frazier 2 about that. And Gil Clancy yelled that it's legal because GF is punching with both hands. Kind of open glove punches, but that was Gil being Gil.

Wlad and Ward are definitely current champions of holding among elite boxers. They would possibly not be in p4p top 5 if they were not allowed to grab so much.

ikorolev wrote:Wlad and Ward are definitely current champions of holding among elite boxers. They would possibly not be in p4p top 5 if they were not allowed to grab so much.

exactly....