BoxRec

Mayweather, Loi, Locche, Pep.

Instead of slagging Floyd off for being a defensive fighter - or listening to his foolish claims of being the best ever - let's appreciate Mayweather for what he is. A defensive genius.

He is up there with the other three greats of his ilk.

Is there anyone else? I considered Benitez and Griffo but they didn't have the longevity of the others.

Not Sweet Pea?

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Yeah Whitaker has to be up there. Might sound daft but I think big Wlad has mastered the art of defence (obviously his size plays a big part but he uses it correctly).

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Ha, I forgot one of the best of all time. That's what 36 hours of drinking will do to you.

Thanks Cholo. The Amazing Quintet....

Stuarty30 wrote:

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Yeah Whitaker has to be up there. Might sound daft but I think big Wlad has mastered the art of defence (obviously his size plays a big part but he uses it correctly).

Wlad executes the blueprint laid out by Steward. But he's not in the same group as the others. A middleweight sized Wlad wouldn't be successful.

I would add the best iterations of James Toney to your list, I think.

And I agree I view Floyd solely in the light of his defensive prowess, in which context I have never seen better.

Taansend wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Yeah Whitaker has to be up there. Might sound daft but I think big Wlad has mastered the art of defence (obviously his size plays a big part but he uses it correctly).

Wlad executes the blueprint laid out by Steward. But he's not in the same group as the others. A middleweight sized Wlad wouldn't be successful.

Yeah he's not a natural but as you say he's executing a gameplan laid out by one of the best boxing minds of our generation. He's affective at what he does. He's been KO'd before so he has learned the hard way. Leans and holds a bit too much for me but I can't help but admire what he's done.

Taansend wrote:

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Ha, I forgot one of the best of all time. That's what 36 hours of drinking will do to you.

Thanks Cholo. The Amazing Quintet....

Yes, a win against Burnley was worth celebrating...(from a fellow Hammer)

My own prejudice would exclude Wlad. If I am seeing a *great* defensive fighter, I am seeing a guy who can defend with body movement and head slips, so on. Dude who defends by either leaping out of range with this feet like a frightened animal or clinching like Hopkins, I don't consider to have fully mastered the technical side.of defence, whether it works or nit.

Counter-puncher wrote:My own prejudice would exclude Wlad. If I am seeing a *great* defensive fighter, I am seeing a guy who can defend with body movement and head slips, so on. Dude who defends by either leaping out of range with this feet like a frightened animal or clinching like Hopkins, I don't consider to have fully mastered the technical side.of defence, whether it works or nit.

Take your point but whatever way you do it, defence is not getting hit. I don't like holding, clinching myself but there is a bit more to Wlad than just that.

Wlad shouldn't be included.

Cholo_cws wrote:

Taansend wrote:

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Ha, I forgot one of the best of all time. That's what 36 hours of drinking will do to you.

Thanks Cholo. The Amazing Quintet....

Yes, a win against Burnley was worth celebrating...(from a fellow Hammer)

I was drunk long before that game, mate. Looks like Moyes for us next season.

Hopefully more exciting than the last few months.

Floyd is brilliant, the other boxers mentioned are also excellent, wasn't Canto also brilliant defensively?

McCallum had the skills to be a defensive ATG, but he preferred to get stuck in.

Jack Johnson anyone? In my book the greatest defensive fighter. He was a game changer.

In his time, for sure. Armstrong, too. But it's really hard to compare those guys from the low-quality footage we have of them, plus the endurance nature of their fights - more body shots, etc.

u ;;-)

Old Jack J wrote:Jack Johnson anyone? In my book the greatest defensive fighter. He was a game changer.

Johnson is the greatest heavyweight of all time in my opinion.

Taansend wrote: u ;;-)

Old Jack J wrote:Jack Johnson anyone? In my book the greatest defensive fighter. He was a game changer.

Johnson is the greatest heavyweight of all time in my opinion.

I rate him very very very highly. I wouldn't disagree with you much at all. I may throw the usual suspects like joe Louis and ali at you but Johnson was up there. Defensively i think he wins it hands down. The fact that he impacted pretty much every boxer since (game changer) is a testament to his techniques. Throw in the prejudice he faced and we are looking at someone who can eclipse muhammed ali in my opinion.

The first four are the right four, unless you count ducking below the waist as a skill. I would throw in Carlos Ortiz as a candidate, a vastly underrated lightweight with all the tools.

I'd add Gavilan, Loughran and Tunney (at heavy) in there too.

Taansend wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

Cholo_cws wrote:Not Sweet Pea?

Yeah Whitaker has to be up there. Might sound daft but I think big Wlad has mastered the art of defence (obviously his size plays a big part but he uses it correctly).

Wlad executes the blueprint laid out by Steward. But he's not in the same group as the others. A middleweight sized Wlad wouldn't be successful.

There's a kind of reverse pound for pound factor when comparing Wlad's defence to a middleweight. For a heavyweight it is very effective, but his long arms and height play no small part.

Taansend wrote:Mayweather, Loi, Locche, Pep.

Instead of slagging Floyd off for being a defensive fighter - or listening to his foolish claims of being the best ever - let's appreciate Mayweather for what he is. A defensive genius.

He is up there with the other three greats of his ilk.

Is there anyone else? I considered Benitez and Griffo but they didn't have the longevity of the others.

By "Griffo" are you referring to Young Griffo, the Australian fighter who left home to fight in America in the first half of the last century, regarded as one of Australia's best ever?

I imagine he is magwitch, there was a really good article in bits and pieces scrapbook thread about Griffo and Joe Gans a few days ago.

Yes i was, madwitch.

From what I read he was a defensive genius. The first of the genre. I threw him in out of respect to the sport we love.

Taansend wrote:Yes i was, madwitch.

From what I read he was a defensive genius. The first of the genre. I threw him in out of respect to the sport we love.

Hi, Taansend, have you checked out the bits and pieces thread on boxers of the past forum?