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Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 10:39
by palooka
Need got some résumé, to be great you've got to beat great fighters and he's done that.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 10:42
by koolkc107
JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 11:49
by Ricky_
koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Man brut you're utterly obsessed. It's insulting to Marquez's body of work to being only the man who got the better of Pacquaio, but i guess to a casual Floyd rider like you that's all he is.
I have no issue with Marquez being crowned the greatest ever Mexican, but that's not a title that should be thrown around lightly when you consider some of the contenders; MAD, EM, JCC, Salvador, Ricardo Lopez, ODLH
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 11:53
by stevedoc
marquez is a great fighter maybe a little underrated but chavez is the greatest mexican for me
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 11:57
by jamesmcdonnell
stevedoc wrote:marquez is a great fighter maybe a little underrated but chavez is the greatest mexican for me
I agree, Chavez' record is ridiculous. The manner in which he took his opponents apart is also pretty spectacular.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 12:02
by stevedoc
jamesmcdonnell wrote:stevedoc wrote:marquez is a great fighter maybe a little underrated but chavez is the greatest mexican for me
I agree, Chavez' record is ridiculous. The manner in which he took his opponents apart is also pretty spectacular.
i think chavez has become a bit underrated by some especially americans he was a machine for many years and i do think the whitaker draw is held to much against him he lost to randell 3 months later so he obviously was starting to slip a bit which after nearly 90 fights is understandable .
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 12:18
by jamesmcdonnell
stevedoc wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:stevedoc wrote:marquez is a great fighter maybe a little underrated but chavez is the greatest mexican for me
I agree, Chavez' record is ridiculous. The manner in which he took his opponents apart is also pretty spectacular.
i think chavez has become a bit underrated by some especially americans he was a machine for many years and i do think the whitaker draw is held to much against him he lost to randell 3 months later so he obviously was starting to slip a bit which after nearly 90 fights is understandable .
Yes it's odd how he seemed to just slip away in terms of his long term standing, as if the bad decision against Whittaker erased everything that had gone before. I think now he's being given his due.
The only person I think you can really hold up against his record is Finito Lopez, but I must confess, that at that weight class, the strength in depth tends to be quite poor, so it's hard to really know how to rate him. The lack of a great talent pool due to not many people being that bloody small, kind of dilutes it a bit.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 12:55
by Tanzio
JMM is my favorite Mexican fighter of all time. He also owns the biggest win by any Mexican of all time, imo. However, JCC has to be considered the greatest Mexican boxer of all time, even given the Sweet Pea debacle and the plethora of cans that fill out his resume.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 12:59
by koolkc107
Ricky_ wrote:koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Man brut you're utterly obsessed. It's insulting to Marquez's body of work to being only the man who got the better of Pacquaio, but i guess to a casual Floyd rider like you that's all he is.
I have no issue with Marquez being crowned the greatest ever Mexican, but that's not a title that should be thrown around lightly when you consider some of the contenders; MAD, EM, JCC, Salvador, Ricardo Lopez, ODLH
True boxing fans know that any meaningful conversation about one is incomplete without discussing the other.
Those 4 fights are a boxing masterpiece, and will be talked about a century from now.
And when they do talk about it, they will have to conclude what I have said.
Pac will have the legacy, but Marquez will have to be seen as better.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 13:03
by Ricky_
koolkc107 wrote:Ricky_ wrote:koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Man brut you're utterly obsessed. It's insulting to Marquez's body of work to being only the man who got the better of Pacquaio, but i guess to a casual Floyd rider like you that's all he is.
I have no issue with Marquez being crowned the greatest ever Mexican, but that's not a title that should be thrown around lightly when you consider some of the contenders; MAD, EM, JCC, Salvador, Ricardo Lopez, ODLH
True boxing fans know that any meaningful conversation about one is incomplete without discussing the other.
Those 4 fights are a boxing masterpiece, and will be talked about a century from now.
And when they do talk about it, they will have to conclude what I have said.
Pac will have the legacy, but Marquez will have to be seen as better.
Yes, you hate Pacquaio Brut, we get it, you probably cut yourself too, but anyone who thinks JMM is going to rank above Pacquiao is the ATG list is...well... as delusional as you.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 13:07
by koolkc107
Ricky_ wrote:koolkc107 wrote:
True boxing fans know that any meaningful conversation about one is incomplete without discussing the other.
Those 4 fights are a boxing masterpiece, and will be talked about a century from now.
And when they do talk about it, they will have to conclude what I have said.
Pac will have the legacy, but Marquez will have to be seen as better.
Yes, you hate Pacquaio Brut, we get it, you probably cut yourself too, but anyone who thinks JMM is going to rank above Pacquiao is the ATG list is...well... as delusional as you.
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 13:29
by hoagylt
Bull , Sal Sanchez
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 13:32
by kidbazooka1
Ricky_ wrote:koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Man brut you're utterly obsessed. It's insulting to Marquez's body of work to being only the man who got the better of Pacquaio, but i guess to a casual Floyd rider like you that's all he is.
I have no issue with Marquez being crowned the greatest ever Mexican, but that's not a title that should be thrown around lightly when you consider some of the contenders; MAD, EM, JCC, Salvador, Ricardo Lopez, ODLH
De la hoya is American.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 13:36
by palooka
fergusg wrote:Juan Manuel Márquez is not the only Mexican born all-time great :
•
Ricardo López - Retired undefeated, 26 consecutive world championship bouts.
•
Julio César Chávez Sr. - A six time world champion in three weight divisions. Ranked in Ring magazine's top ten pound-for-pound list for nine years. Competed in 37 world title fights.
•
Marco Antonio Barrera - A former three weight division champion.
•
Rubén Olivares - Greatest bantamweight of all time with 13 world title fights.
•
Erik Morales - The first Mexican-born boxer in history to win world titles in four different weight classes and has defeated 15 world champions.
•
Salvador Sánchez - Ten world title fights, and had it not been for his premature death, could have gone on to become the greatest featherweight of all time. He was also one of only two men to have beaten the legendary Azumah Nelson during a 13 year period (the other was Pernell Whitaker).
Great list and you could add Zarate, Chu chu Castillo, Lupe Pintor and for excitement Zamora.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 13:51
by koolkc107
kidbazooka1 wrote:Ricky_ wrote:koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Man brut you're utterly obsessed. It's insulting to Marquez's body of work to being only the man who got the better of Pacquaio, but i guess to a casual Floyd rider like you that's all he is.
I have no issue with Marquez being crowned the greatest ever Mexican, but that's not a title that should be thrown around lightly when you consider some of the contenders; MAD, EM, JCC, Salvador, Ricardo Lopez, ODLH
De la hoya is American.
I wasn't gonna say anything as there isn't enough time in the day to point out everything he gets wrong.
But, Yep.
And someone tell me who MAD is (I think I know, but with this guy nothing is a sure thing).
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 14:03
by Ricky_
kidbazooka1 wrote:Ricky_ wrote:koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Man brut you're utterly obsessed. It's insulting to Marquez's body of work to being only the man who got the better of Pacquaio, but i guess to a casual Floyd rider like you that's all he is.
I have no issue with Marquez being crowned the greatest ever Mexican, but that's not a title that should be thrown around lightly when you consider some of the contenders; MAD, EM, JCC, Salvador, Ricardo Lopez, ODLH
De la hoya is American.
He's Mexican American but whatever discount him if you like, he's not the owner of the title anyway but wrth a mention.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 15:23
by SenorPipino
You all must have forgot about Pipino Cuevas.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 15:26
by palooka
I think Jose Luis Ramirez was a very nearly great boxer, he could fight!
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 15:55
by Monte Fisto
koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Please stop.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 16:03
by Monte Fisto
So hard to say who the greatest Mexican fighter is. Every time I want to agree that it's Marquez all these other names above just put their case fwd.
Thank you Mexico..
Morales Barrera, definitely my favourite rivalry.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 16:32
by koolkc107
95gerog wrote:koolkc107 wrote:JMM will go down in history as the man who was better than Pacquiao when Pac was creating his legacy.
First ballot HOFer.
Please stop.
JMM thinks he won all 4 fights.
I think his actual record is 2-1-1.
First fight was a draw IMO.
Manny won the second in a close fight.
JMM won the third pretty easily.
JMM scored a KO in the 4th.
Marquez was better.
You ask me who I would have rather been inside those ropes, most of the time I would choose to be Juan.
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 19:25
by hurricanemitch14
Would have loved to seen JMM vs prime Morales ot Barrera. Morales beat a prime pacman and prime Barrera. Morales is #1 n my book but id settle for JMM : )
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 20:24
by ClivePatrickLyons
SenorPipino wrote:You all must have forgot about Pipino Cuevas.
The Motor City Cobra and Hand's of Stone didn't forget
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 20:57
by Lackeos
I'm not sure why the boxrec all-time standings list JMM as being the highest-ranked Mexican of all time, or how it computes the listed all-time ratings. I don't know if it's corrected for era or what. But based on their peak boxrec ratings, I've come up with the following list, with possibly some oversights, I dunno.
Jose Napoles 4128
Vicente Saldivar 2630
Juan Zurita 2475
Carlos Palomino 2088
Pipino Cuevas 1893
Kid Azteca 1849
Julio Cesar Chavez 1795
Lauro Salas 1769
Salvador Sanchez 1670
Carlos Zarate 1513
Chango Carmona 1513
Rodolfo Gonzalez 1508
Ruben Olivares 1403
Clemente Sanchez 1343
Juan Manuel Marquez 1273
Re: Juan Manuel Marquez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all-time
Posted: 19 May 2015, 21:20
by Tanzio
Lackeos wrote:I'm not sure why the boxrec all-time standings list JMM as being the highest-ranked Mexican of all time, or how it computes the listed all-time ratings. I don't know if it's corrected for era or what. But based on their peak boxrec ratings, I've come up with the following list, with possibly some oversights, I dunno.
Jose Napoles 4128
Vicente Saldivar 2630
Juan Zurita 2475
Carlos Palomino 2088
Pipino Cuevas 1893
Kid Azteca 1849
Julio Cesar Chavez 1795
Lauro Salas 1769
Salvador Sanchez 1670
Carlos Zarate 1513
Chango Carmona 1513
Rodolfo Gonzalez 1508
Ruben Olivares 1403
Clemente Sanchez 1343
Juan Manuel Marquez 1273
I can definitely see an argument for Jose Napoles, but Pipino #5 and Kid Azteca #6, among others? Whatever the system is that you are using, it is seriously flawed.