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Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 00:11
by KBB
PURE BOXERS LIKE FLOYD MAYWEATHER DESERVE MORE RESPECT

By Lang Greene | May 20, 2015

No matter how sickening or depraved it might be, people just love taking the obligatory glance over at the carnage of a fatal interstate wreck, standing and watching with lusty anticipation during the beginning moments of a street brawl, listening intently to the details of a murder story kicking off the local evening news, and routinely support violence – whether it's in television, movies, books, music or video games.

This is unescapable. This is unavoidable. This is a basic foundation of human nature.

We don fancy clothes, speak with high intellect, and have the tools to reason better than any other organism on the planet, but we'll never outgrow our thirst for brutality in its purest form. We are and will always be animalistic in nature.

Such is life.

It's the reason why ferocious dunkers in the NBA receive the most views on YouTube, the reason why home run hitters in baseball are known on a first name basis; it explains why cheers are often heard during crashes at NASCAR events and why bone crushing hits from defenders are widely celebrated in the NFL on Sundays.

Boxing, the sweet science, isn't immune to this primal desire for mayhem and destruction. It's the reason why pressure fighters, no matter the individual skill level, tend to receive more respect than a traditional boxer-puncher - and the gap continues to grow.

For instance, bring up the names "Irish" Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti and word such as courageous, toughness, bravery and warrior will top the list. Now bring up an all-time great such as Pernell Whitaker and ask yourself will the adjectives used to describe Gatti and Ward be applied to Sweet Pea? Probably not. But why? Didn't it take the heart of a warrior and courage for a well-faded Whitaker to stand toe-to-toe with an undefeated and prime Felix Trinidad in 1999 - and have a few moments? Did it take bravery and toughness for Whitaker to challenge an undefeated Oscar De La Hoya two years prior?

Whitaker embodied all of the adjectives used above, which are typically reserved for brawlers, but your first thought upon hearing his name was likely more of a slick, defensive-minded, smooth, witty, smart, careful and fast pure boxer. While those attributes are also accurate, failing to identify and label Whitaker as the ultimate warrior he was just because he didn't provide a highlight reel of career ending knockouts does a disservice to his legacy.

When did slick, elusive, unorthodox and crafty become synonymous with running, cowardice and frightened? Things are getting pretty ridiculous.

Now this brings us to current Pound-4-Pound King, Floyd "Money" Mayweather, who is winding down a Hall of Fame career where he spent nearly 15 years as a champion in one form or another.

Earlier this month, Mayweather systematically took apart and totally neutralized an all-time great pressure fighter in Manny Pacquiao, rolling to a clear, clean and undebatable unanimous decision.

Despite the clear domination, Mayweather was quickly labeled as running throughout the entire bout by more than a few fans of the sweet science. It's tough to weed out which of those fans were just unhappy that Mayweather emerged victorious and those who truly believe the undefeated champion put on his track shoes and went for a jog throughout the Pacquiao fight.

For clarity, Joshua Clottey's performance against Pacquiao in 2010 is a clear example of a guy who decided to put the earmuffs on and go into survival mode. Mayweather, on the other hand, out-landed and threw more punches than Pacquiao, who has traditionally always been the more frenetic-paced, high energy fighter.

There's a distinct difference between a guy running a marathon in the ring to avoid contact and a fighter completely nullifying an opponent's attack in every aspect due to supreme skill.

Some, perhaps knowing the running label against Mayweather was completely bogus, have opted to launch a campaign with a new charge levied against the undefeated champ. The rapidly growing sentiment is that Mayweather's style is...wait for it...boring.

It's a convenient label that most dominant boxers over the years have had to endure once they consistently outclass their opposition with seemingly little to no effort. Whitaker, Bernard Hopkins, Andre Ward, Mayweather and Guillermo Rigondeaux are just a small sample of extremely sharp boxers who are casually tossed into the "boring style" conversation because their opponents fail to make things exciting.

It took Hopkins most of his career to start demanding multi-million dollar paydays. Rigondeaux is one of the best technical fighters of the last 20 years and his star power is nowhere near the level it should be. And we can go on and on about Ward's lack of mainstream attention despite outclassing everyone in his division when he was much more active.

But further evaluating Mayweather's case, the boring label doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The Pacquiao fight was a strategic affair for sure, but the Filipino superstar failed to make Mayweather adjust, didn't punch through clinches or force him into more exchanges. If the old adage of "never hook with a hooker" holds true, why on earth was Pacquiao attempting to outbox Mayweather in the middle of the ring?

Digging deeper, most of Mayweather's recent fights have been filled with drama. Maybe not the same level of drama as Hearns-Leonard I, of course, but not many compare to an all-time classic.

Mayweather's two fights with Marcos Maidana were shootouts which forced Mayweather to adjust his game plan, fight under constant duress, and remain in pocket. Before the Maidana fights, Mayweather methodically picked apart an undefeated Saul "Canelo" Alvarez in a contest with high physical contact. A year before the Canelo fight, Mayweather stayed relatively close to the pocket all night earning an entertaining unanimous decision victory over current middleweight champion Miguel Cotto. Let's stay on Cotto for a moment; Mayweather threw 687 punches versus the current middleweight titlist in their bout. Cotto threw 506 shots in comparison. Versus Canelo, Mayweather threw only 21 punches less, but landed 115 more blows.

Mayweather's fights versus Sugar Shane Mosley, Ricky Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya were also high contact affairs. Mayweather also stayed in the pocket to pull out two close decision wins versus Jose Luis Castillo earlier in his career.

If there is a charge that can be levied against Mayweather, it is the lack of a desire to finish off opponents in later rounds. But as fans of the sweet science, you must also remember the unnecessary risk Meldrick Taylor took back in 1990 versus Julio Cesar Chavez in a fight he was clearly winning on all judges scorecards. All Taylor had to do was coast the twelfth round and the fame and fortune for becoming the first to beat a legend was his for the taking. But the primal need to go out like a warrior wouldn't allow Taylor to briefly consider he had dominated the fight all night and just needed to enjoy his victory lap. This allowed Chavez to sneak out of the Las Vegas Hilton undefeated, scoring a TKO with less than five seconds remaining.

Another fight to reference with misplaced bravado is the 1991 middleweight championship clash between Michael Nunn and James Toney. Nunn entered the bout, fought in his hometown of Davenport, Iowa, near the top of most experts' Pound-4-Pound lists and proceeded to give Toney a boxing lesson. Nunn's trainer, Angelo Dundee, implored his young charge to stick to the game plan of sticking and moving, but Nunn didn't heed the advice and was knocked out in the eleventh round in a fight he was cleanly winning.

Nunn and Taylor are just two examples of history forgetting two fighters who elected to go out on their respective shields. They chose to stay in their opponents' wheelhouse trying in vain to prove a point instead of getting the win and securing their individual legacies.

Asking and expecting a fighter to forcefully close the show late in a fight where they've already put in the work to build a sizeable lead only fits to feed our need for carnage. Often times the fighters who choose to foolishly attempt to feed our need for brutality ultimately end up forgotten warrior's decades later.

You clearly saw what happened when a brawler tried to outbox a masterful boxer on May 2. Maybe that masterful boxer could have chosen to walk through the fire of that brawler's onslaught earlier this month and still emerged victorious. Maybe. Just maybe. Or maybe not. But why even chance it? It would have been plain silly to do so when his natural ability afforded him the luxury of putting things on cruise control against a fellow all-time great


I'm sure there will be people who won't agree but I'm certain they will be the ones who were with the losing team.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 00:30
by Tanzio
Nobody lost but the paying public. They showed up for a mega fight and were treated to a choreographed dance exhibition.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 00:45
by KBB

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 00:47
by davie
Although i'm agreeing with the article, Mayweather vs Pacqiuao was a fairly dull fight

However....
As demonstrated in Lang Greens argument, this was as much, if not more, Pacquiaos fault as it was Floyds.

Also, as I pointed out to my outraged friend after watching the 12 rounds, If you expected a 12 round slug-fest in a Mayweather fight, you were kidding yourself.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 00:49
by KBB
davie wrote:Although i'm agreeing with the article, Mayweather vs Pacqiuao was a fairly dull fight

However....
As demonstrated in Lang Greens argument, this was as much, if not more, Pacquiaos fault as it was Floyds.

Also, as I pointed out to my outraged friend after watching the 12 rounds, If you expected a 12 round slug-fest in a Mayweather fight, you were kidding yourself.
Careful now, all of the forum's Pacquiao Experts will call you an idiot and whatnot for stating that it was Manny's fault.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 00:51
by Tanzio
I could tell from the final prefight press conference that it would be a love not slugfest.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 01:20
by davie
KBB wrote:
davie wrote:Although i'm agreeing with the article, Mayweather vs Pacqiuao was a fairly dull fight

However....
As demonstrated in Lang Greens argument, this was as much, if not more, Pacquiaos fault as it was Floyds.

Also, as I pointed out to my outraged friend after watching the 12 rounds, If you expected a 12 round slug-fest in a Mayweather fight, you were kidding yourself.
Careful now, all of the forum's Pacquiao Experts will call you an idiot and whatnot for stating that it was Manny's fault.
And I'm a fully signed up member of the Pactards :lol:

But common sense must prevail.

I'd have liked the fight to be more lively. Partly for entertainment purposes and partly because it would have given Manny a far better chance of winning

but you can only appreciate what Floyd does (unless of course you're the frustrated S.O.B trying to punch him)

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 01:50
by KBB
davie wrote:
KBB wrote:And I'm a fully signed up member of the Pactards :lol: But common sense must prevail.

I'd have liked the fight to be more lively. Partly for entertainment purposes and partly because it would have given Manny a far better chance of winning

but you can only appreciate what Floyd does (unless of course you're the frustrated S.O.B trying to punch him)
I respect you my man, you admit that you love Manny's style but yet you are objective enough to admit he lost fair and square.

You have my utmost respect, if only the Sore Losers on this forum had half as much grace as you do then we'd have reasonable discussions without all of the fantasies about scoring, slow mo, bum shoulder injuries that supposedly happen before the fight in 2008, and then the later flip-floppery of Arum saying that he injured it during the fight and whatnot.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 07:48
by caldo2025
I look back at the Hagler/SRL fight and because I was a huge SRL fan, I have been arguing with Pro-Haglerians that it was a clinic in scientific boxing. So it's pretty hypocritical of me to now forget that logic when it doesn't favor me as a Pactard. SRL never hurt Hagler in that fight and Hagler did chase him all around the ring that night. The similarities between these two fights are hardly mentioned and I wonder why? Why was there no outcry from the public in that fight? Why did fans not complain about the lack of action in that one? In fact, that fight is held pretty high on the all time fight lists out there.

The fans waiting over 5 years for this fight between Floyd and Manny and when the last bell rung the end of the bout, neither guy was hurt, cut, bruised or knocked down. It was an extremely uneventful fight and pretty similar to the way Floyd's been winning his fights late in his career and it's just not exciting for fans. I can appreciate Floyd's skills but after paying all this money to watch Floyd fight over the years, i've ended up being a disappointed investor. The investments into Manny's fights have been way more rewarding to invest in IMO.

Re: Great Article!!

Posted: 23 May 2015, 12:55
by KBB
caldo2025 wrote:I look back at the Hagler/SRL fight and because I was a huge SRL fan, I have been arguing with Pro-Haglerians that it was a clinic in scientific boxing. So it's pretty hypocritical of me to now forget that logic when it doesn't favor me as a Pactard. SRL never hurt Hagler in that fight and Hagler did chase him all around the ring that night. The similarities between these two fights are hardly mentioned and I wonder why? Why was there no outcry from the public in that fight? Why did fans not complain about the lack of action in that one? In fact, that fight is held pretty high on the all time fight lists out there.

The fans waiting over 5 years for this fight between Floyd and Manny and when the last bell rung the end of the bout, neither guy was hurt, cut, bruised or knocked down. It was an extremely uneventful fight and pretty similar to the way Floyd's been winning his fights late in his career and it's just not exciting for fans. I can appreciate Floyd's skills but after paying all this money to watch Floyd fight over the years, i've ended up being a disappointed investor. The investments into Manny's fights have been way more rewarding to invest in IMO.

Again your Mannytardism has blinded you once more, this was a Manny fight too, you know?? Pacquiao didn't make any adjustments, why don't you admit that is what made this fight boring, you said this was a Floyd fight, then wasn't it in Pacquiao's best interests to change that by making him fight differently??

Where were the punches in bunches? Where were the combos from the normal Manny we always saw? Why didn't he cut off the ring? Why didn't he parry the jab? Some very basic fundamentals were not exhibited by Packy.

Instead you still blame Floyd when we all know what he does, he isn't a KO puncher like GGG, he isn't a pressure fighter like Maidana, he isn't a toe to toe brawler like Gatti.

This was a Manny fight too, or at least he was in it, when will you blame him for not doing enough??