Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 09 Jun 2015, 19:08
Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson toughest foe?
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Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
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Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 09 Jun 2015, 19:49
Artie Levine might be worth a mention, he put Robinson down for a 21 second count and SRR aways claimed Levine hit him the hardest.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 09 Jun 2015, 20:49
By toughest, do you mean literally who was the "toughest"?
Or who was the best?
Toughest would be hard to choose between LaMotta,Basilio, and Fullmer. They were as tough as nails.
Best would be probably between Turpin (at the time they fought anyway) and Gavilan.
Or who was the best?
Toughest would be hard to choose between LaMotta,Basilio, and Fullmer. They were as tough as nails.
Best would be probably between Turpin (at the time they fought anyway) and Gavilan.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 05:17
Yes question not very clear, I thought he meant who gave him his toughest fight
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 07:05
Some more info on Levine and the long count please, Controversial.Controversial wrote:Artie Levine might be worth a mention, he put Robinson down for a 21 second count and SRR aways claimed Levine hit him the hardest.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 08:14
Exactly. In my view, Randy Turpin gave SRR the most fitsControversial wrote:Yes question not very clear, I thought he meant who gave him his toughest fight
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 14:10
Joey Maxim is a worth shout....a 6'1 light heavy world champ who'd been in with the likes of Ezzard Charles and Freddie Mills and the fight pitted Sugar Ray against a naturally bigger, slightly younger man on a scorching hot night that even had the ref needing to be replaced. That must have a been brutal experience for Robinson who was leading on the cards..... Maxim was as a tough, tough man who I think was a possibly an outstanding, natural cruiserweight before the division had been imagined/created.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 17:48
palooka wrote:Some more info on Levine and the long count please, Controversial.Controversial wrote:Artie Levine might be worth a mention, he put Robinson down for a 21 second count and SRR aways claimed Levine hit him the hardest.
Ray said that Levine hit him the hardest of any fighter. He heard the ref start the count at 5 so must have been really dazed. Robinson went on to brutally KO Levine in the 10th.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 02:03
sugar ray could never beat ralph "tiger" jones, he fought him once, jones could never get him to fight him again.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 02:21
I'm sure you've probably googled it since, I only know what I've read online. Sorry my post was slightly misleading (or badly worded) as Robinson was up at 9 but the refs error meant he was on the floor for around 21 seconds.palooka wrote:Some more info on Levine and the long count please, Controversial.Controversial wrote:Artie Levine might be worth a mention, he put Robinson down for a 21 second count and SRR aways claimed Levine hit him the hardest.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 6945&hl=en
I posted a thread on it in 2009. Shame there's no footage of it !!
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114313
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 09:31
Without question, LaMotta.
Why? Look at it this way, Robinson was considered to be the greatest Welterweight to have ever lived. He made the jump to Middleweight, and he decisioned LaMotta. Everyone thought Robinson was just going to steam roll through the Middleweights just as he did at 147. But then he found out that because he was "too good" he was in the same position as LaMotta, difficult to get the real fights necessary to get to the title. So, he rematched him. This time, LaMotta was ready and hitting his stride. He was at his peak. And he beat Robinson by unaminous decision. Of course, there had to be a rubber match--- and that was also a hell of a contest, with both men getting hurt and Robinson was floored. However, Jake lost that one on points. Was controversial in scoring.
Of course, in the years to follow, they would have three more fights. And it is the 5th contest, that Robinson said was the toughest bout he had with LaMotta. Robinson was awarded a split decision, and it was HIGHLY controversial. So far in the series, LaMotta won only one contest, "losing" the other four. Truth is, you may as well say the series was all but tied. 2-2-1 would of been more accurate to paint the picture of what happened between the two men. They wouldn't fight again until four years later, when LaMotta became the champion. And it is this fight, that Robinson (as a middleweight) finally reached his apex. LaMotta's best was 4 years before. This (also) was one of four times (three legit) that LaMotta ever lost by stoppage. The other two (legit) came when he was an old man and against light heavyweights.
No disrespect to the others on the poll... but by the time Fullmer, Basilio, etc. came around Robinson was already on the downside as a middleweight and had failed to wrest the 175-pound title from Maxim.
Why? Look at it this way, Robinson was considered to be the greatest Welterweight to have ever lived. He made the jump to Middleweight, and he decisioned LaMotta. Everyone thought Robinson was just going to steam roll through the Middleweights just as he did at 147. But then he found out that because he was "too good" he was in the same position as LaMotta, difficult to get the real fights necessary to get to the title. So, he rematched him. This time, LaMotta was ready and hitting his stride. He was at his peak. And he beat Robinson by unaminous decision. Of course, there had to be a rubber match--- and that was also a hell of a contest, with both men getting hurt and Robinson was floored. However, Jake lost that one on points. Was controversial in scoring.
Of course, in the years to follow, they would have three more fights. And it is the 5th contest, that Robinson said was the toughest bout he had with LaMotta. Robinson was awarded a split decision, and it was HIGHLY controversial. So far in the series, LaMotta won only one contest, "losing" the other four. Truth is, you may as well say the series was all but tied. 2-2-1 would of been more accurate to paint the picture of what happened between the two men. They wouldn't fight again until four years later, when LaMotta became the champion. And it is this fight, that Robinson (as a middleweight) finally reached his apex. LaMotta's best was 4 years before. This (also) was one of four times (three legit) that LaMotta ever lost by stoppage. The other two (legit) came when he was an old man and against light heavyweights.
No disrespect to the others on the poll... but by the time Fullmer, Basilio, etc. came around Robinson was already on the downside as a middleweight and had failed to wrest the 175-pound title from Maxim.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 10:54
I'm going with Turpin (at the time Robinson fought them.)
He fought Turpin only a few months after fighting LaMotta the 6th time. Turpin not only won their first fight, but was doing very well until getting stopped in the 2nd fight.
At the time, he was fighting at a very high level.
Hard to say in regard to La Motta compared to Fullmer and Basilio. LaMotta had to deal with a younger fighter than Fullmer and Basilio. On the other hand, Fullmer and Basilio were fighting a bigger version of Robinson than LaMotta did.
How would a 145 pound (but much younger) Robinson do against Basilio and Fullmer? Hard to say.
Turpin has to fight the bigger version of Robinson who while not young, was still just 30.
He fought Turpin only a few months after fighting LaMotta the 6th time. Turpin not only won their first fight, but was doing very well until getting stopped in the 2nd fight.
At the time, he was fighting at a very high level.
Hard to say in regard to La Motta compared to Fullmer and Basilio. LaMotta had to deal with a younger fighter than Fullmer and Basilio. On the other hand, Fullmer and Basilio were fighting a bigger version of Robinson than LaMotta did.
How would a 145 pound (but much younger) Robinson do against Basilio and Fullmer? Hard to say.
Turpin has to fight the bigger version of Robinson who while not young, was still just 30.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 12:33
There's a load of good fighters that aren't on that list.
Henry Armstrong, Sammy Angott, Carl "Bobo" Olson, Paul Pender... And I'd even throw Marty Servo in there as well, he gave Robinson hell when they met in 1942. Or so I've read.
Henry Armstrong, Sammy Angott, Carl "Bobo" Olson, Paul Pender... And I'd even throw Marty Servo in there as well, he gave Robinson hell when they met in 1942. Or so I've read.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 12:34
From that list, I'm going along with Jake LaMotta.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 13:41
Tommy Bell was supposed to be a really good fighter.Crease wrote:There's a load of good fighters that aren't on that list.
Henry Armstrong, Sammy Angott, Carl "Bobo" Olson, Paul Pender... And I'd even throw Marty Servo in there as well, he gave Robinson hell when they met in 1942. Or so I've read.
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 13:45
Thank youControversial wrote:I'm sure you've probably googled it since, I only know what I've read online. Sorry my post was slightly misleading (or badly worded) as Robinson was up at 9 but the refs error meant he was on the floor for around 21 seconds.palooka wrote:Some more info on Levine and the long count please, Controversial.Controversial wrote:Artie Levine might be worth a mention, he put Robinson down for a 21 second count and SRR aways claimed Levine hit him the hardest.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 6945&hl=en
I posted a thread on it in 2009. Shame there's no footage of it !!
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114313
Re: Who was the great Sugar Ray Robinson's toughest foe?
Posted: 12 Jun 2015, 19:07
The reason I voted for Randy Turpin is because when I saw their fights on film, it seems that the great original Sugar Ray could not figure him out. Turpin not only was strong, but clever. He used to go down in a crouch everytime Sugar Ray mounted an attack. He was pushing Sugar Ray on the clinches.
In the rematch, Robinson had to go very deep. He was losing the fight in that rematch according to reports. And he had a cut on the eyelids. The ref gave Robinson one more round, and Robinson stopped Turpin in the 10th, being behind on points. It was a great win for Robby. One of his most gutsiest performamces.
The second toughtest for me, was the great Kid Gavilan. According to the reports, many saw Gavilan winning both fights and the crowd booed fiercely.
And then, third and last, the great Carmen Basilio. No wonder the Sugar Man never gave him a rematch. Basilio was rough and tough, but very clever. It was hard for Robinson to hit him in the first fight because Basilio used to go down in a crouch.
In the rematch, Robinson had to go very deep. He was losing the fight in that rematch according to reports. And he had a cut on the eyelids. The ref gave Robinson one more round, and Robinson stopped Turpin in the 10th, being behind on points. It was a great win for Robby. One of his most gutsiest performamces.
The second toughtest for me, was the great Kid Gavilan. According to the reports, many saw Gavilan winning both fights and the crowd booed fiercely.
And then, third and last, the great Carmen Basilio. No wonder the Sugar Man never gave him a rematch. Basilio was rough and tough, but very clever. It was hard for Robinson to hit him in the first fight because Basilio used to go down in a crouch.