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the best version of hagler(pre Mugabe)vs roy jones jnr (pre toney)@middleweight
would be a humdinger,class of styles and a clash of personalities,who would prevail
would fancy jones jnr,stays out of haglers range and picks him off,marvelous just can`t get any momentum,duran,a blown up welterweight gave hagler a very arkward time,jones jnr would give him absolute fits

If RJ is clean :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? and no PED'S involved then Hagler does a Tarver on him D

How is Jones pre-Toney the best version of him?

Nevertheless, at the time you mention, I'd go with Jones by decision. He's just too damn fast. He could do what Leonard did at the end of rounds for the whole three minutes.

Bobbyptsd wrote:How is Jones pre-Toney the best version of him?

Nevertheless, at the time you mention, I'd go with Jones by decision. He's just too damn fast. He could do what Leonard did at the end of rounds for the whole three minutes.

That was not a prime Hagler. A prime Hagler would've probably stopped Jones Jr late. Roy was not at his peak at 160. A pre-prime Hopkins gave Roy a fairly competitive fight with his awkward pressure and a peak Hagler is well above that version of Bernard.

dempseyfire wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:How is Jones pre-Toney the best version of him?

Nevertheless, at the time you mention, I'd go with Jones by decision. He's just too damn fast. He could do what Leonard did at the end of rounds for the whole three minutes.

That was not a prime Hagler. A prime Hagler would've probably stopped Jones Jr late. Roy was not at his peak at 160. A pre-prime Hopkins gave Roy a fairly competitive fight with his awkward pressure and a peak Hagler is well above that version of Bernard.

I didn't say it was prime Hagler.

Jones is quickly becoming one of the most overlooked fighters. Suddenly everyone and their brother wears him down and stops him and Hopkins almost beat him by losing fairly wide. It's weird.

You must really hate Roy dont you? Hagler was made of the stuff nightmares come from. You stand with him, your dead. You try and box him, you will gas out before he does. No offense to Roy, but he never fought anyone like Marvin and no offense to the likes of Toney and Hopkins, they didn't quite reach their apex as fighters when Roy beat them. The most "dangerous" man he fought was Ruiz. And I have a feeling that Hagler probably would of kicked his ass better than Roy did.

HomicideHenry wrote:You must really hate Roy dont you? Hagler was made of the stuff nightmares come from. You stand with him, your dead. You try and box him, you will gas out before he does. No offense to Roy, but he never fought anyone like Marvin and no offense to the likes of Toney and Hopkins, they didn't quite reach their apex as fighters when Roy beat them. The most "dangerous" man he fought was Ruiz. And I have a feeling that Hagler probably would of kicked his ass better than Roy did.

Yeah, this is what I was talking about in my previous post.

RJJ HAS A HEAP OF :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? HANGING OVER HIS HEAD AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW
WHAT I'M SAYING THEN

I think that the great Roy Jones, Jr's speed is a factor and may give Marvelous a hell of a time. But, in the later rounds, I see Marvelous' will and desires plus his strength, overwhelms Roy. Remember that Roy didn't had the best of chins. Probably, the great Thomas Hearns' chin was better than Roy's.

At that stage Jones had a solid chin that was almost untouchable. I figure he'd frustrate Hagler and get a points win

I think Jones speed would trouble Marvin Hagler,but i think if Hagler put the pressure on Jones an don't allow him to fight on the outside,Hagler would win,all Hagler would have to do is make it a dog fight & that would keep Roy off balance.To tell u the truth most of the guys Jones fought at middleweight weren't that good only person gave him a fight was Bernard Hopkins & Montell Griffin,even when he was at light heavweight,the only fighters gave him a fight was Antonio Tarver,then Roy lost to Tarver twice an knockout by Glen Johnson.Then after that he beat 2 unknown fighters an had a fight with Felix Trindad,who just came out of retirement,after that he lost to Joe Calzaghe then beated two more bums & got knockout by Danny Green in the 1st Round & a year later lost Bernard Hopkins in the rematch & knockout again in the 10th round by the russian Denis Lebedev.Every since then Jones got old an wash up & been fighting bums every since,to be honest i never thought Roy Jones was a top pound 4 pound fighter ever.

psychod1986 wrote:I think Jones speed would trouble Marvin Hagler,but i think if Hagler put the pressure on Jones an don't allow him to fight on the outside,Hagler would win,all Hagler would have to do is make it a dog fight & that would keep Roy off balance.To tell u the truth most of the guys Jones fought at middleweight weren't that good only person gave him a fight was Bernard Hopkins & Montell Griffin,even when he was at light heavweight,the only fighters gave him a fight was Antonio Tarver,then Roy lost to Tarver twice an knockout by Glen Johnson.Then after that he beat 2 unknown fighters an had a fight with Felix Trindad,who just came out of retirement,after that he lost to Joe Calzaghe then beated two more bums & got knockout by Danny Green in the 1st Round & a year later lost Bernard Hopkins in the rematch & knockout again in the 10th round by the russian Denis Lebedev.Every since then Jones got old an wash up & been fighting bums every since,to be honest i never thought Roy Jones was a top pound 4 pound fighter ever.

I think the fact you've run down the first decade of his career as nothing special and then highlighted the last few years where he was past it is why he doesn't look so good. For that first part of his career good fighters could barely lay a glove on him. Not so sure Hagler would have done that much better and you could denigrate a lot of Hagler's opposition. I'm a Hagler fan and he was my favourite fighter in the 80s but I just can't see him winning against the best Jones. I'd be impressed if he made it close.

The great Roy Jones, Jr in my view, was very talented, but in the best night of his life, wouldn't beat Marvelous. Jones, Jr has never beaten a complete fighter like Hagler.

Jones fighting a young fresh Hagler,That type of Hagler would put a serious beating on Jones.

I think a prime Roy Jones beats anyone in history.

Jones v Hopkins was a pretty close fight I thought, I believe I had RJJ winning it by only 2. Hagler would eventually get to him.

ElJefe wrote:I think a prime Roy Jones beats anyone in history.

That's when he fights policemen and school teachers

GPTM1403 wrote:At that stage Jones had a solid chin that was almost untouchable. I figure he'd frustrate Hagler and get a points win

"solid chin"

And this is based on?

A prime Hagler was a frikkin' non-stop locomotive monster with a true iron chin. You think he's going to awed by Roy's speedy pot-shotting?

No way Jones would even have taken this fight.

elmersalsa wrote:

ElJefe wrote:I think a prime Roy Jones beats anyone in history.

That's when he fights policemen and school teachers

Or schooled that James Toney fella.

dempseyfire wrote:

GPTM1403 wrote:At that stage Jones had a solid chin that was almost untouchable. I figure he'd frustrate Hagler and get a points win

"solid chin"

And this is based on?

A prime Hagler was a frikkin' non-stop locomotive monster with a true iron chin. You think he's going to awed by Roy's speedy pot-shotting?

"Speedy pot-shotting" is seriously underestimating Roy's power.

Hagler by stoppage.

Jones' chin would eventually crumble under Marvin's non-stop assault. Ask Hearns, Mugabi, or Minter.

Don't know why some think that Jones had a solid chin during his prime. It's more likely that he was just hard to hit and did a good job protecting a very ordinary jaw. When his reflexes began to slow around the time of the Tarver bout, Jones demonstrated just how suspect his chin was.

Of course Jones movement and speed would give Hagler some trouble early but eventually Marvin would cut off the ring, find his rythym and begin dissecting Jones. Upstairs and downstairs.

Jones would crumble by the 10th.

SenorPipino wrote:Hagler by stoppage.

Jones' chin would eventually crumble under Marvin's non-stop assault. Ask Hearns, Mugabi, or Minter.

Don't know why some think that Jones had a solid chin during his prime. It's more likely that he was just hard to hit and did a good job protecting a very ordinary jaw. When his reflexes began to slow around the time of the Tarver bout, Jones demonstrated just how suspect his chin was.

Of course Jones movement and speed would give Hagler some trouble early but eventually Marvin would cut off the ring, find his rythym and begin dissecting Jones. Upstairs and downstairs.

Jones would crumble by the 10th.

Great view. I give Marvelous a winning stoppage by the 12th round

Hagler is a cut above in my view. He'd stop Jones

Jones Jnr would give Marvin a real go, he was a good puncher at middleweight. I'm not sure how it'd go but it wouldn't have been easy for either of them.

ElJefe wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

ElJefe wrote:I think a prime Roy Jones beats anyone in history.

That's when he fights policemen and school teachers

Or schooled that James Toney fella.

dempseyfire wrote:

GPTM1403 wrote:At that stage Jones had a solid chin that was almost untouchable. I figure he'd frustrate Hagler and get a points win

"solid chin"

And this is based on?

A prime Hagler was a frikkin' non-stop locomotive monster with a true iron chin. You think he's going to awed by Roy's speedy pot-shotting?

"Speedy pot-shotting" is seriously underestimating Roy's power.

What elite fighter did Roy ever stop or even seriously hurt with his power besides a perfect kidney shot vs Virgil Hill? I'm not saying he couldn't punch, but Hagler certainly faced many fighters with greater power than Jones Jr.