BoxRec

How common is it for boxers to use IVs for rehydration after weigh ins?


Please tell me.

I know little about the technical details, but you see some of the weight gains at low-ish weights (Porter, Paul Williams when he fought there, Maidana, Matthysse) & I can't honestly think of an alternative.

With the twenty-odd pound rehydration gains on a sub-150lb frame, I can only assume it's an IV filled with pasta.

I have a sneaking feeling that--like a lot of the "borderline" stuff in boxing, like getting fake testosterone pellets inserted under your skin, say, & going to GNC & totally accidentally happening to pick up the one new supplement that mysteriously contains something that will get you banned--there's gonna be few if any that admit to it, so I await with bated breath someone from the game to step forward to rubbish this & tell us it's just an economy sized crate of Dioralyte & some sandwiches, however.

EDIT: Couple of seconds of Googling & Victor Conte infers it's de rigour for top fighters:

The average IV bag of saline is 250 ml & boxers often use to 2-3 or more bags post weigh-in for rehydration. Let's be clear. Lots of top boxers are using IV 2 rehydrate post weigh-in & all violate WADA rule!

I mean, he'd know, FFS. There'll be lots of dudes in the game that will rush to rubbish this, but I think it's pretty obvious what the answer is, mate.

Datsue wrote:I know little about the technical details, but you see some of the weight gains at low-ish weights (Porter, Paul Williams when he fought there, Maidana, Matthysse) & I can't honestly think of an alternative.

With the twenty-odd pound rehydration gains on a sub-150lb frame, I can only assume it's an IV filled with pasta.

I have a sneaking feeling that--like a lot of the "borderline" stuff in boxing, like getting fake testosterone pellets inserted under your skin, say, & going to GNC & totally accidentally happening to pick up the one new supplement that mysteriously contains something that will get you banned--there's gonna be few if any that admit to it, so I await with bated breath someone from the game to step forward to rubbish this & tell us it's just an economy sized crate of Dioralyte & some sandwiches, however.

EDIT: Couple of seconds of Googling & Victor Conte infers it's de rigour for top fighters:

The average IV bag of saline is 250 ml & boxers often use to 2-3 or more bags post weigh-in for rehydration. Let's be clear. Lots of top boxers are using IV 2 rehydrate post weigh-in & all violate WADA rule!

I mean, he'd know, FFS. There'll be lots of dudes in the game that will rush to rubbish this, but I think it's pretty obvious what the answer is, mate.

Cheers for that, really good reply.

Its a pretty messed up situation having to drop 20 pounds of water in 3 days, then use an IV to rehydrate oneself, then fight for 12 rounds.

Surely the "benefits" of being so much bigger than an opponent are negated by the fact the fighters body has been put through such a draining and damaging cycle?

sometimes it shows very clearly in the ring, I think. Crolla - Murray a good example i think. the obviously much bigger at the weight Murray looked jaded and listless compared to the guy who makes weight pretty comfortably.

Paradoxically I wonder if refuelling via an I.V is actually quite progressive.
Fighters have always crashed the weight via multiple sauna's etc,at least now by using an I.V they're putting some safe weight back on rather than still being in shock from huge weight loss.
I've heard many times in the recent past of guys crashing the weight then struggling come fight-time as they struggled to eat and re-hydrate via mouth only.
I know that the NSAC are planning to ban and check for this soon,could mean the goalposts are moved once again.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:
Surely the "benefits" of being so much bigger than an opponent are negated by the fact the fighters body has been put through such a draining and damaging cycle?

You would think so mate, but on the other hand they wouldn't put themselves through the whole process of there wasn't a tangible benefit from doing so.

I guess it is like a lot of things to do with nutrition - there can be general assumptions made that will cover the majority of the population but the top top boxers do not fall into this category as they are genetically gifted.

I guess that this would not work for some but could work very well for others.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote: Surely the "benefits" of being so much bigger than an opponent are negated by the fact the fighters body has been put through such a draining and damaging cycle?

Counter-puncher wrote:sometimes it shows very clearly in the ring, I think. Crolla - Murray a good example i think. the obviously much bigger at the weight Murray looked jaded and listless compared to the guy who makes weight pretty comfortably.

Again, totally from an uninformed layman's point of view, like C-P said, there's a certain "look" fighters who've been doing something kerrrayyy-zeee with the weight have when their bodies are just saying "fornicate no" to one last attempt to make themselves a human sponge--Murray vs Crolla, Brandon Rios vs Abril & (irony alert!) Murray, for instance.

I think it's a massive, massive advantage (being a couple of divisions bigger, like) for however long the system can maintain it & still provide top athletic performance, until the one day when your system can't do it for whatever hideous biological reason & then like you said, K-G, the cumulative systems damage suddenly catches up with guys & then the wheels come off.

EDIT: Ninja'd by bripez, yes, that too.

Yes mate. I wonder if - irony alert - there is a cumulative effect, not unlike the effect of taking repeated punches to the head. What a fighter can gut his way through one year is more difficult the next, and so on until it becomes impossible. The system sort of rebelling against the demands placed on it.

Would it be on the whole safer if everyone gained access to this treatment so that there would be less brain trauma? Let's face it, we are never going to stop fighters cutting weight to be as low as possible

UFC has just banned it, which has made a lot of fighters go apeshit.

I think the rationale is that if IV's are banned (and god knows how you check for their use) then the crazy weight cutting and rehydration will stop, and fighters will fight at their natural division.

This is flawed thinking, Graham.

Fighters will still dehydrate like mad ban use less effective rehydration methods,.

Terry Dooley wrote:Cutting then putting weight on is untenable in the long-term. It makes people far too sluggish, does a lot of damage and is a false economy. I think the obsession with moving through the divisions and gaining a size advantage went too far. Marvin Hagler fought at the same weight his whole career and that doesn’t make him any less of a fighter.

As for IVs, the two fights where we know 100% they were used were DLH-Manny and Toney-Jones. Toney was about 214 over a month before the weigh in, came in at 167 then hit 190ish on the night, and he looked like sh*t.

I was under the impression that simply drinking water afterwards was of little use, as the electrolytes etc still need to get back to normal.

I suppose IV is using a pre-mix of salts etc to establish that instantly, than waiting hours and letting the body do it.

It's all cheating at the end of the day, trying to shoehorn a bigger guy into a smaller division to gain an advantage because he cannot cut it amongst equal sized opponents. Until the means of enabling this to happen are removed, it will continue to happen.

Terry Dooley wrote:Cutting then putting weight on is untenable in the long-term. It makes people far too sluggish, does a lot of damage and is a false economy.

Yes, but its ingrained into the very fabric of boxing. Telling or forcing or persuading fighters not to do it, would be like trying get pensioners to switch to online banking. It aint gonna happen.

I think that they all want as much solid muscle on their frame as they can, so the only way to do it is cutting the water and rehydrating.
To my septic eye, fighters are way more muscular than 20/30 years ago.

Its more of a strength game nowadays, than speed and skill. I blame the switch to 12 rounds, the increased use of nutritionists and Norman Tebbit.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

Terry Dooley wrote:Cutting then putting weight on is untenable in the long-term. It makes people far too sluggish, does a lot of damage and is a false economy.

Yes, but its ingrained into the very fabric of boxing. Telling or forcing or persuading fighters not to do it, would be like trying get pensioners to switch to online banking. It aint gonna happen.

I think that they all want as much solid muscle on their frame as they can, so the only way to do it is cutting the water and rehydrating.
To my septic eye, fighters are way more muscular than 20/30 years ago.

Its more of a strength game nowadays, than speed and skill. I blame the switch to 12 rounds, the increased use of nutritionists and Norman Tebbit.

True - it is ingrained in the psyche of all boxers, amateur and pro, young and not so young.

Probably every boxer on the planet has thought "I am fit and strong at this weight, so if I move down a weight class I will be fitter and stronger than my opponents"

G0mez wrote:I was under the impression that simply drinking water afterwards was of little use, as the electrolytes etc still need to get back to normal.

I suppose IV is using a pre-mix of salts etc to establish that instantly, than waiting hours and letting the body do it.

It's all cheating at the end of the day, trying to shoehorn a bigger guy into a smaller division to gain an advantage because he cannot cut it amongst equal sized opponents. Until the means of enabling this to happen are removed, it will continue to happen.

As any professional drinker will know, water is no use when you have a hangover. Our bodies can't absorb it very well by itself.



Imdon't consider it cheating, the problem is the rules. Fighters only needs to be on weight for like 10 minutes 36 hours before the fight, so thats what they do.


Change the rules, Graham

Terry Dooley wrote:Boxing’s in similar position to football, athleticism over skill seems to be the ordered of the day. That’s why a skilful player or boxer (Scholes or Mayweather for example) stand out.

It's far easier to get somebody fit and strong than it is to make them skilful. Any dummy can get to grips with strength and conditioning training as all the principles are basic. Teaching skills is far more trying. Far more people on the planet who you can make into great piano lifters compared to great piano players too.

Does anyone know of any good books on this kind of topic? Id find it pretty interesting.

The problem likely comes from the 'everyone does it' attitude, if you fight at your natural weight then you are more than likely going to find yourself in there with monsters. It would be interesting to see the average heights for world champions in the historic weight divisions thesedays compared to those of the past. Obviously height doesnt tell the full story of what someones weight should be but in some cases it will tell you what weight someone shouldnt be. (If that makes sense)

It still amazes me that in this day and age there isnt a better system of monitoring fighters weights to allow for a safe and fair fight!

I was talking to an MMA fighter last night who told me he removed 2 pints of blood to make weight. (He put the blood back 10 mins after weigh in)

It's all gone a bit mad, Graham