BoxRec

......in their prime, beaten every other champion in the history of that division.

At heavyweight, prime vs prime, I think Ali would have beaten Louis, would have had close fights with Johnson, Marciano, Frazier, Tyson and Lewis, but I think he would beat them all.

Holyfield beats everyone at cruiser.

RJJ beats everyone at Super Middle.

Any thoughts? Any more weight divisions?

I don't think so if we are talking traditional weight classes. Some of the newer weight classes perhaps since they don't have the numbers behind them.

For example, how could Ali beat every champion in the history of the division when he already lost to say Frazier and Norton?

Robinson at welterweight, Duran at Lightweight

punchoutsb wrote:I don't think so if we are talking traditional weight classes. Some of the newer weight classes perhaps since they don't have the numbers behind them.

For example, how could Ali beat every champion in the history of the division when he already lost to say Frazier and Norton?

Well, I don't think Ali was at his peak for either of those fights.

dr_devious wrote:Robinson at welterweight, Duran at Lightweight

Benny Leonard would beat Duran IMO.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:I don't think so if we are talking traditional weight classes. Some of the newer weight classes perhaps since they don't have the numbers behind them.

For example, how could Ali beat every champion in the history of the division when he already lost to say Frazier and Norton?

Well, I don't think Ali was at his peak for either of those fights.

Fair enough.

I just don't think it's possible for any fighter to be that perfect. For Ali, since you used him, he is expected to beat 60+ heavyweight titlists? Too many chances there to end up perfect.

Robinson at welterweight

Thats it!

Nobody beats Thomas Hearns or Mike McCallum at 154lbs.

Definitely, no one could withstand the great Wilfredo Gomez at 122

elmersalsa wrote:Nobody beats Thomas Hearns or Mike McCallum at 154lbs.

Hearns must beat McCallum or vice versa.

Lennox Lewis.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Nobody beats Thomas Hearns or Mike McCallum at 154lbs.

Hearns must beat McCallum or vice versa.

That fight is a toss up for me. It's very hard to pick a winner between these two great 154lbs pounders.

elmersalsa wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Nobody beats Thomas Hearns or Mike McCallum at 154lbs.

Hearns must beat McCallum or vice versa.

That fight is a toss up for me. It's very hard to pick a winner between these two great 154lbs pounders.

That would have been a classic alright, I think if McCallum could take Jackson's right hand he would keep his chin down and body shot Tommy to a late stoppage win.

A prime Ali and prime Frazier would be a toss up as well

There are several fighters who could of (and some cases probably would have) beaten McCallum and/or Hearns at 154.

For starters there is Mickey Walker, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, and Emile Griffith.

Ambling Alp II wrote:There are several fighters who could of (and some cases probably would have) beaten McCallum and/or Hearns at 154.

For starters there is Mickey Walker, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, and Emile Griffith.

I'm sorry, but, greats like Mickey Walker, Emile Griffith nor Sugar Ray Leonard have any business in the ring with either both if them. The great Sugar Ray Robinson is a top choice because of what he did at middleweight. But we're talking about 154lbs here.

palooka wrote:That would have been a classic alright, I think if McCallum could take Jackson's right hand he would keep his chin down and body shot Tommy to a late stoppage win.

A prime Ali and prime Frazier would be a toss up as well

McCallum was at the Kronk for a while and they sparred each other. Would love to have been a fly on the wall.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

palooka wrote:That would have been a classic alright, I think if McCallum could take Jackson's right hand he would keep his chin down and body shot Tommy to a late stoppage win.

A prime Ali and prime Frazier would be a toss up as well

McCallum was at the Kronk for a while and they sparred each other. Would love to have been a fly on the wall.

Yes, both tremendous fighters - McCallum was so tough, did he ever have a count against him?

I remember reading that Moorer at light heavy and Hearns were kept away from each other at the Kronk.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Nobody beats Thomas Hearns or Mike McCallum at 154lbs.

Hearns must beat McCallum or vice versa.

I thought that it, don't make sense.

palooka wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

palooka wrote:That would have been a classic alright, I think if McCallum could take Jackson's right hand he would keep his chin down and body shot Tommy to a late stoppage win.

A prime Ali and prime Frazier would be a toss up as well

McCallum was at the Kronk for a while and they sparred each other. Would love to have been a fly on the wall.

Yes, both tremendous fighters - McCallum was so tough, did he ever have a count against him?

I remember reading that Moorer at light heavy and Hearns were kept away from each other at the Kronk.

I think that was for Hearns' protection. He was fragile and Moorer was a beast at light heavy

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:There are several fighters who could of (and some cases probably would have) beaten McCallum and/or Hearns at 154.

For starters there is Mickey Walker, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, and Emile Griffith.

I'm sorry, but, greats like Mickey Walker, Emile Griffith nor Sugar Ray Leonard have any business in the ring with either both if them. The great Sugar Ray Robinson is a top choice because of what he did at middleweight. But we're talking about 154lbs here.

Wow.

I live by the saying.. "no matter how tough you are, there's always someone out there that can kick your ass."

punchoutsb wrote:I don't think so if we are talking traditional weight classes. Some of the newer weight classes perhaps since they don't have the numbers behind them.

For example, how could Ali beat every champion in the history of the division when he already lost to say Frazier and Norton?

Problem ali wasnt at his peak in those fights. We could have been robbed in seeing the best ali because of his 3 year lay off which was bs. Dundee even said the best ali looked was the cleveland williams fight. Man have u ever watched ali's fights? Cuz anyone that has knows ali wasnt near his peak when he came back fron the lay off. I always see a lot of ppl comment on alis fights throughout his career and criticise this and that but when most people never sat down and took all those fights in. Ali is the greatest, best resume in the history of boxing, best talent, greatest ambassador ANY sport has ever seen. There is a reason he will go down as one of the most famous people of all time

The great Muhammad Ali is the MOST FAMOUS PERSON OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

He is, in my view, the best heavyweight ever in my view, but, on March 8, 1971, he found his match. He got whuuped

elmersalsa wrote:The great Muhammad Ali is the MOST FAMOUS PERSON OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

He is, in my view, the best heavyweight ever in my view, but, on March 8, 1971, he found his match. He got whuuped

I bet you shout that out in your sleep, elmer.

CrazyHorse wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:I don't think so if we are talking traditional weight classes. Some of the newer weight classes perhaps since they don't have the numbers behind them.

For example, how could Ali beat every champion in the history of the division when he already lost to say Frazier and Norton?

Problem ali wasnt at his peak in those fights. We could have been robbed in seeing the best ali because of his 3 year lay off which was bs. Dundee even said the best ali looked was the cleveland williams fight. Man have u ever watched ali's fights? Cuz anyone that has knows ali wasnt near his peak when he came back fron the lay off. I always see a lot of ppl comment on alis fights throughout his career and criticise this and that but when most people never sat down and took all those fights in. Ali is the greatest, best resume in the history of boxing, best talent, greatest ambassador ANY sport has ever seen. There is a reason he will go down as one of the most famous people of all time

Yes I have watched most of Ali's fights. He is one of my favorites. My point was to illustrate that I do not believe any one fighter was so supreme that they could beat every other champion ever. Not Muhammad Ali, not SRR, no one. Any fighter that supreme, even slightly out of prime, should have no trouble with contenders and the like. Ali was great no doubt, but there is no way he or anyone else is able to defeat every other champion. Too many great fighters to run that gauntlet.

elmersalsa wrote:The great Muhammad Ali is the MOST FAMOUS PERSON OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

He is, in my view, the best heavyweight ever in my view, but, on March 8, 1971, he found his match. He got whuuped

So you are saying Ali was the best ever, therefore, prime Ali would have beaten FOC Frazier?