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James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 09 Aug 2015, 01:39
by CrazyHorse
James Toney loses to a 9-3-1 fighter tonight. Dropped a decision.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 09 Aug 2015, 02:37
by knockouts67
CrazyHorse wrote:James Toney loses to a 9-3-1 fighter tonight. Dropped a decision.
He should drop a few pounds also!
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 09 Aug 2015, 17:50
by SenorPipino
I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 01:37
by Like a Boss
Toney isn't a tragedy about to happen. I fear he is a tragedy already completed. His quality of life after retirement is something I don't even want to contemplate.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 04:50
by marcianofan
I was ringside at the fight. It was worse than it sounds. It was only competitive when Ellis was goofing around and clowning. Toney had nothing much on his punches at all, and was really sluggish on defense. I was ghost-judging the fight for the commission, and agreed with the 99-91 card. Even that one round was close, and Ellis took it off. He honestly seemed to be carrying Toney a little bit, either out of respect, or because he was having a great time. At one point around the 8th round, when he had Toney backed to the ropes on my side of the ring, I heard him say "You don't give up, do you?" My girlfriend (at her first ever live card) was getting kinda mad at Ellis for "not taking it seriously." Toney has guts and a little bit of a chin maybe left, but that's it. Ellis is 40 years old, himself, and although he hasn't lost to anyone particularly bad (Tex Tresmigustus of Boxcino fame, current undefeated prospect Adam Kownacki, and Vincent Thompson, a then-unbeaten prospect who ended his career with losses to a couple gatekeeper types, at least), he had no business effortlessly dominating even a top 200 heavyweight, and Toney clearly is no longer in that ballpark.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 04:52
by marcianofan
SenorPipino wrote:I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
He was co-promoter of the card. Not sure if he's making any money doing that, but he might have been fighting as much to bolster his promotional efforts as out of actual desperation. But maybe it's both. I have no idea what his money situation is.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 05:23
by jamesmcdonnell
SenorPipino wrote:I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
Definitely not - he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 06:14
by Like a Boss
jamesmcdonnell wrote:SenorPipino wrote:I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
Definitely not - he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Someone close to Toney needs to tell him enough is enough. They should show him videos from when you could actually understand what he was saying and explain to him boxing is the reason you can no longer understand what he is saying.
The guy is a bumbling mess and will only get worse. Saddest part is the damage is probably already done whether he fights on or not.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 06:15
by jamesmcdonnell
Like a Boss wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:SenorPipino wrote:I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
Definitely not - he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Someone close to Toney needs to tell him enough is enough. They should show him videos from when you could actually understand what he was saying and explain to him boxing is the reason you can no longer understand what he is saying.
Doubt he would believe it. It's bloody sad watching someone get punched into brain damage.
Toney is only 2 years older than me, and he looks and sounds like hell.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 06:17
by Like a Boss
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Like a Boss wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Definitely not - he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Someone close to Toney needs to tell him enough is enough. They should show him videos from when you could actually understand what he was saying and explain to him boxing is the reason you can no longer understand what he is saying.
Doubt he would believe it. It's bloody sad watching someone get punched into brain damage.
Toney is only 2 years older than me, and he looks and sounds like hell.
The full extent of the damage he has already suffered probably isn't even fully evident yet.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 06:41
by jamesmcdonnell
Probably not - although I have noticed that with Holyfield, when he stopped fighting, his speech patterns improved quite significantly, but what is more worrying is that Toney's balance seems to have gone, something which never seemed to happen to Evander.
Still remember the absolute ass-whipping Toney gave Holyfield, I never saw anyone else whip Evander like that. It was a total and utter domination. In hindsight very impressive.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 14:55
by Rexob
jamesmcdonnell wrote:SenorPipino wrote:I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
Definitely not -
he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits [/b]for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Weird that he is/was one of the best defensive fighters of at least the last 30 years, you would have thought that he might not be like he is?
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 10 Aug 2015, 15:38
by jamesmcdonnell
Rexob wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:SenorPipino wrote:I've seen boxing sites refer to the outcome as an "upset."
At this point in Toney's career, is any loss really an "upset?"
The poor guy must really need the money to be going through the motions at 46 and embarrassing his once-great reputation.
Definitely not -
he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits [/b]for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Weird that he is/was one of the best defensive fighters of at least the last 30 years, you would have thought that he might not be like he is?
I reckon a lot of his damage was done in sparring, also, in his later career at heavyweight, he started relying on his chin, he took some serious licks of Samuel Peters in those fights.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 02:32
by Like a Boss
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Rexob wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Definitely not - he's in bad shape physically and neurologically, and has been shot to bits [/b]for a while now.
He's going to end up in a wheelchair at this rate - I find it hard to believe he's being subjected to anything approaching a proper medical.
Weird that he is/was one of the best defensive fighters of at least the last 30 years, you would have thought that he might not be like he is?
I reckon a lot of his damage was done in sparring, also, in his later career at heavyweight, he started relying on his chin, he took some serious licks of Samuel Peters in those fights.
The big boys hit harder and as you said sparring can be just as responsible for damage as fights. Even with headgear on.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 06:16
by jamesmcdonnell
There's some evidence to suggest headgear makes it worse, as it spreads the impact across the whole skull, causing more brain trauma. Toney was very keen on wars in sparring.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 06:35
by rm1
yup taken too many punches from much bigger men. he should never have fought at heavyweight really and should have quit ten years ago. An ATG reduced to this is terribly sad.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 07:34
by Like a Boss
jamesmcdonnell wrote:There's some evidence to suggest headgear makes it worse, as it spreads the impact across the whole skull, causing more brain trauma. Toney was very keen on wars in sparring.
It also provides a bigger target area for impacts. That is part of the reason why there are mixed feelings about the benefits of headgear in other sports such as football and rugby.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 14:16
by Rexob
Like a Boss wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:There's some evidence to suggest headgear makes it worse, as it spreads the impact across the whole skull, causing more brain trauma. Toney was very keen on wars in sparring.
It also provides a bigger target area for impacts. That is part of the reason why there are mixed feelings about the benefits of headgear in other sports such as
football and rugby.
Didn't know they wore headgear in football? fooking pussy's
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 15:15
by drunkenpiper36
At this point he could lose to anybody. The man's expiration date went out years ago.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 22:46
by Like a Boss
Rexob wrote:Like a Boss wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:There's some evidence to suggest headgear makes it worse, as it spreads the impact across the whole skull, causing more brain trauma. Toney was very keen on wars in sparring.
It also provides a bigger target area for impacts. That is part of the reason why there are mixed feelings about the benefits of headgear in other sports such as
football and rugby.
Didn't know they wore headgear in football? fooking pussy's
In Australian rules football there is occasionally a player running around in headgear. Usually only when coming back after a head injury or concussion. In rugby it is more common.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 23:11
by crusader
jamesmcdonnell wrote:There's some evidence to suggest headgear makes it worse, as it spreads the impact across the whole skull, causing more brain trauma. Toney was very keen on wars in sparring.
There is evidence, but one of the 'major' studies on it that is regularly mentioned is internal to the AIBA and hasn't been publicly released (why?), which is a problem given that there may have been methodological issues. Moreover, if the AIBA was already in favor of removing headgear perhaps they were out for a study that supported that decision, regardless of its legitimacy. The authors of the Zurich Consensus on Concussion have also written that: "it is a great pity that AIBA has not demonstrated ongoing engagement with the mainstream international sports concussion groups (eg, the CISG group) developing guidelines and recommendations for sport to protect athletes.”
I've seen research both ways and it doesn't seem like there is a definitive answer as to whether headgear is generally protective, harmful, or somewhere between, though it clearly seems to reduce facial damage.
Weird that he is/was one of the best defensive fighters of at least the last 30 years, you would have thought that he might not be like he is?
His defensive abilities began eroding long ago and he's been relying on a good chin (which prolongs the punishment) for years.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 12 Aug 2015, 15:55
by SenorPipino
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Probably not - although I have noticed that with Holyfield, when he stopped fighting, his speech patterns improved quite significantly, but what is more worrying is that Toney's balance seems to have gone, something which never seemed to happen to Evander.
Still remember the absolute ass-whipping Toney gave Holyfield, I never saw anyone else whip Evander like that. It was a total and utter domination. In hindsight very impressive.
I can remember him having balance problems back in 2006 when he labored to a 12 round draw with Rahman. His rotund shape in that bout may have contributed to his problems, but that fight probably marked the end of Toney as a top fighter.
Aren't there any state commissions willing to check this guy out closely and refuse him a license? That might be the only way to keep Toney out of the ring. Of course, he'd probably find bouts in Mexico, if it came to that.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 12 Aug 2015, 16:37
by jamesmcdonnell
SenorPipino wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Probably not - although I have noticed that with Holyfield, when he stopped fighting, his speech patterns improved quite significantly, but what is more worrying is that Toney's balance seems to have gone, something which never seemed to happen to Evander.
Still remember the absolute ass-whipping Toney gave Holyfield, I never saw anyone else whip Evander like that. It was a total and utter domination. In hindsight very impressive.
I can remember him having balance problems back in 2006 when he labored to a 12 round draw with Rahman. His rotund shape in that bout may have contributed to his problems, but that fight probably marked the end of Toney as a top fighter.
Aren't there any state commissions willing to check this guy out closely and refuse him a license? That might be the only way to keep Toney out of the ring. Of course, he'd probably find bouts in Mexico, if it came to that.
Sadly, there are states that have very little boxing and very poor commissions, such as Minnesota, and tennesee who will license just about anyone.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 14 Aug 2015, 03:37
by marcianofan
jamesmcdonnell wrote:SenorPipino wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Probably not - although I have noticed that with Holyfield, when he stopped fighting, his speech patterns improved quite significantly, but what is more worrying is that Toney's balance seems to have gone, something which never seemed to happen to Evander.
Still remember the absolute ass-whipping Toney gave Holyfield, I never saw anyone else whip Evander like that. It was a total and utter domination. In hindsight very impressive.
I can remember him having balance problems back in 2006 when he labored to a 12 round draw with Rahman. His rotund shape in that bout may have contributed to his problems, but that fight probably marked the end of Toney as a top fighter.
Aren't there any state commissions willing to check this guy out closely and refuse him a license? That might be the only way to keep Toney out of the ring. Of course, he'd probably find bouts in Mexico, if it came to that.
Sadly, there are states that have very little boxing and very poor commissions, such as Minnesota, and tennesee who will license just about anyone.
Perhaps I'm biased, but generally I think Missouri has a pretty good commission, and the head of it is also the head of the ABC. I assume he must have passed the medicals...and to be honest just to the naked eye I didn't see anything in his terrible performance that indicated medical incapacity to fight. He just looked like a slow-footed, slow-handed fighter with practically no power at all. I guess you can say his reflexes weren't great, especially comparing him with years ago, but I'm not sure I'd be criticizing his reflexes specifically if I didn't know who he was or how old he was. That's not to say he should keep fighting- clearly he should not- but I'm not certain the commission had a legit basis to deny him licensure, and I'm assuming the doctors must have given him the go ahead, whether that was wise or not.
Re: James Toney loses to a 9-3-1
Posted: 14 Aug 2015, 18:13
by keithmoonhangover
Like a Boss wrote:Toney isn't a tragedy about to happen. I fear he is a tragedy already completed. His quality of life after retirement is something I don't even want to contemplate.
He's a convicted drugs cheat. Zero sympathy from me.