BoxRec

Is Virgil Hill, a former world boxing champion at 175lbs, makes your list of all time 20 greatest light-heavyweights? I think we have discussed this before, ain't we? Should we find that thread?

Yes without doubt got to be up there..

Not a chance.

King Carlos wrote:Not a chance.

And why you think he's not top 20 all-time 175 pounder?

.....because a good case could be made for 20+ other fighters that would outclass him in that division?



Just sayin'

Big fan of the guy but clearly not.

BoxBuzz wrote:.....because a good case could be made for 20+ other fighters that would outclass him in that division?



Just sayin'

That about covers it.

Some names that come to mind.....the first few you can probably challenge since they weren't always LHW's ...but you should think about it....

Starting with Harold, those guys were straight LHW's


Roy Jones
James Toney
James Braddock
Ezz Charles....
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney


Harold Johnson
Maske
Bob Foster
J H L
Joey Maxim
Billy Conn
Tommy Loughron
Tommy Gibbons
Bernard Hopkins
Jimmy Bivins
Michael Spinks
P J O'B
Torres
Lesnevich
Galindez
Stribling
Rosenbloom
Mustfafa
Qawi
Saad
Levinsky
Tiger Fox


That's more than 20 right? Just off the top of my head. Here's some tough competition as well

Leo Lomski?
Marvin Johnson?
Stribling?
Norfolk?
Pastrano"
Mills?
Gainer?

I think that Virgil Hill deserves a spot in the top 20 light-heavyweights of all-time. He got the credentials.

He's got credentials....problem is there are more than 20 LHW's that have better credentials. And that sort of leaves him out don't it?

... you have to start whittling away at my list.

I suppose you want to dump any names that did not campaign most of their career at LHW......but is that fair?

The "top twenty" is measurable. How many of those names are going to be scrubbed, and why?


Once you figure a way to do that....I'll find another 10 that should be ahead of him I"m sure.

so...top 50....maybe 40......but twenty?

I think his best might be in the mid 30's. Being optimistic.

I like Virgil Hill and think he's an underrated fighter, but in the 112 year history of the Light Heavyweight division, Yes, there have been more than 20 fighters who were better. And that's the great thing about the sport. You can be below the top 20 and still be pretty darn good.

Seamus wrote:I like Virgil Hill and think he's an underrated fighter, but in the 112 year history of the Light Heavyweight division, Yes, there have been more than 20 fighters who were better. And that's the great thing about the sport. You can be below the top 20 and still be pretty darn good.

Troo Dat!

BoxBuzz wrote:He's got credentials....problem is there are more than 20 LHW's that have better credentials. And that sort of leaves him out don't it?

... you have to start whittling away at my list.

I suppose you want to dump any names that did not campaign most of their career at LHW......but is that fair?

The "top twenty" is measurable. How many of those names are going to be scrubbed, and why?


Once you figure a way to do that....I'll find another 10 that should be ahead of him I"m sure.

so...top 50....maybe 40......but twenty?

I think his best might be in the mid 30's. Being optimistic.

A guy that fought 22 fights that counted shall be in. He fought what was in front of him. He can't go back to the '30s, '40s or any other era before him. He fought in HIS ERA, and won most of his fights. Let's give him credit for that.

He lost to Thomas Hearns. A great light heavy should have been able to win that fight.

Ambling Alp II wrote:He lost to Thomas Hearns. A great light heavy should have been able to win that fight.

Not necessarily, the great Thomas Hearns was a hell of a fighter. Virgil Hill recaptured the title after that.

Yes Hearns was a hell of a fighter. Thanks for the information. A truly great light heavy should have been able to beat Hearns at 175.

hill was an excellent fighter at his best but still remains outside of the top 20 IMHO

Elmer, If all you're sayin is let's give due respect.....that's one thing. No problem.

But you put out a specific question. And I think even you have to admit the answer is a resounding NO.

Make it "top 40" and your onto something!

Ambling Alp II wrote:Yes Hearns was a hell of a fighter. Thanks for the information. A truly great light heavy should have been able to beat Hearns at 175.

And I am saying, not necessarily. Virgil Hill was not an all time great p4p, Hearns is. It took a great fighter to dethrone Hill.

BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer, If all you're sayin is let's give due respect.....that's one thing. No problem.

But you put out a specific question. And I think even you have to admit the answer is a resounding NO.

Make it "top 40" and your onto something!

Well, in my view, Virgil Hill did what he supposed to do. There are not big names that he beat in his resume. So what? He did what was available. I got a top 20 all time great list, and in my view, he should be in. I will bring it later or tomorrow.

As I can remember, as right now, the top five at 175lbs:
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Tommy Loughran
4. Gene Tunney
5. Michael Spinks

The rest? in no particular order that I could remember: Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Roy Jones, Jr, Harold Johnson, Joey Maxim, Lloyd Marshall, Jimmy Bivins, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Marvin Johnson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Virgil Hill, and I think I got Jack Delaney. I will bring the list later today or tomorrow

BoxBuzz wrote:Some names that come to mind.....the first few you can probably challenge since they weren't always LHW's ...but you should think about it....

Starting with Harold, those guys were straight LHW's


Roy Jones
James Toney
James Braddock
Ezz Charles....
Archie Moore
Gene Tunney


Harold Johnson
Maske
Bob Foster
J H L
Joey Maxim
Billy Conn
Tommy Loughron
Tommy Gibbons
Bernard Hopkins
Jimmy Bivins
Michael Spinks
P J O'B
Torres
Lesnevich
Galindez
Stribling
Rosenbloom
Mustfafa
Qawi
Saad
Levinsky
Tiger Fox


That's more than 20 right? Just off the top of my head. Here's some tough competition as well

Leo Lomski?
Marvin Johnson?
Stribling?
Norfolk?
Pastrano"
Mills?
Gainer?

What did Toney do at LHW to deserve being on the list?

Hill's way above Toney at LHW.

Seamus wrote:Hill's way above Toney at LHW.

Well he accomplished more....but since Toney didn't spend a lot of time there, and started as a middleweight, and would be an odds on favorite to beat Hill....I thought I'd toss him in, to lure you to the conversation.

This is my list of the top 20 light-heavyweight boxers of all time:
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Tommy Lougran
4. Gene Tunney
5. Michael Spinks
6. Billy Conn
7. Bob Foster
8. Maxie Rosenbloom
9. Roy Jones, Jr.
10. Harold Johnson
11. Jimmy Bivins
12. Lloyd Marshall
13. Victor Galindez
14. Matthew Saad Muhammad
15. John Henry Lewis
16. VIRGIL HILL
17. Jack Dillon
18. Joey Maxim
19. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
20. Marvin Johnson

What you think, Ambling Alp?

elmersalsa wrote:This is my list of the top 20 light-heavyweight boxers of all time:
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Tommy Lougran
4. Gene Tunney
5. Michael Spinks
6. Billy Conn
7. Bob Foster
8. Maxie Rosenbloom
9. Roy Jones, Jr.
10. Harold Johnson
11. Jimmy Bivins
12. Lloyd Marshall
13. Victor Galindez
14. Matthew Saad Muhammad
15. John Henry Lewis
16. VIRGIL HILL
17. Jack Dillon
18. Joey Maxim
19. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
20. Marvin Johnson

What you think, Ambling Alp?

You missed out Harry Greb. The guy who beat Tunney twice and held the same light heavyweight title Tunney did. He also beat Loughran, Rosenbloom, Dillon, Billy Miske, Tommy Gibbons and gunboat Smith. Well ahead of Virgil Hill. How on earth do you have Qawi below Hill?