Faster hands, Tyson or Ali?

[VG_Addict]

These two are widely considered to have the fastest hands in HW history.

Well, who had the faster hands?

[man]

jab ... ali
hook ... tyson

[witherspoon]

I would say that Ali had the faster hands, in terms of pure physics, putting his fist onto the target in less time.

I think Tyson had more effective punch speed in terms of power punch combinations, delivery of power in less time, or with less punches.
I'm tempted to say that Tyson could deliver more power with two punches than Ali could with three or four.

But those are just idle contemplations. I think about Ali's level of competition, stoppages of Bonavena, Foreman, Lyle, Liston. And I wonder if it might not be so clear-cut.

I don't mean to warp the OP's question, it's just my subjective way of comparing an attribute in two individual boxers. Some might disagree, but I think it's fairly clear that Ali had faster hands, so it's more interesting to look at it in terms of a ratio of speed/power.

[cfang]

Ali had faster hands than Tyson. However, I've never seen a heavy throw such fast power punches in combos as Tyson.

[yancey]

I would say that Ali had the faster hands, in terms of pure physics, putting his fist onto the target in less time.

I think Tyson had more effective punch speed in terms of power punch combinations, delivery of power in less time, or with less punches.
I'm tempted to say that Tyson could deliver more power with two punches than Ali could with three or four.

But those are just idle contemplations. I think about Ali's level of competition, stoppages of Bonavena, Foreman, Lyle, Liston. And I wonder if it might not be so clear-cut.

I don't mean to warp the OP's question, it's just my subjective way of comparing an attribute in two individual boxers. Some might disagree, but I think it's fairly clear that Ali had faster hands, so it's more interesting to look at it in terms of a ratio of speed/power.

"I'm tempted to say that Tyson could deliver more power with two punches than Ali could with three or four." witherspoon


Uh, I think you would be on safe ground saying that.

[Rexob]

Ali was faster on his feet, Tyson had faster hands.

[witherspoon]

I would say that Ali had the faster hands, in terms of pure physics, putting his fist onto the target in less time.

I think Tyson had more effective punch speed in terms of power punch combinations, delivery of power in less time, or with less punches.
I'm tempted to say that Tyson could deliver more power with two punches than Ali could with three or four.

But those are just idle contemplations. I think about Ali's level of competition, stoppages of Bonavena, Foreman, Lyle, Liston. And I wonder if it might not be so clear-cut.

I don't mean to warp the OP's question, it's just my subjective way of comparing an attribute in two individual boxers. Some might disagree, but I think it's fairly clear that Ali had faster hands, so it's more interesting to look at it in terms of a ratio of speed/power.

"I'm tempted to say that Tyson could deliver more power with two punches than Ali could with three or four." witherspoon


Uh, I think you would be on safe ground saying that.

But I'm genuinely interested to hear someone argue the case that Ali could deliver comparable power when he chose to.

I just think about how Ali dealt with Cleveland Williams, and I wonder if it's fair to compare that to Tyson's destruction of Berbick. Personally, I think Berbick ranks more highly than Williams at these points in their careers, but I admit to being slightly ignorant of Williams' form and condition going into the fight with Ali.

Would Tyson stop Bonavena or Quarry or Foreman as handily as Ali did? I couldn't honestly say that I know the answer, but I would like to hear the views of some more knowledgeable posters on this.

Ali most definitely beat, and stopped, better fighters than Tyson did. But the decisive way that Tyson was able to deal with guys like Thomas, Berbick, Carl Williams, Biggs, Holmes, Tubbs etc goes in Tyson's favour.

It's always been the fantasy match that most intrigues me, maybe not in terms of who wins but certainly in terms of how it pans out.

[BoxBuzz]

Actually Cleveland Williams was a paraplegic (or was it quadriplegic?) when he faced Ali.......so you can't count that.

EVEN THOUGH...he seemed to do very well against other opponents both before and after his fight with Ali. We (or you) are not allowed to factor that in.

Anything Ali did in that fight, can not be factored in.....because Cleveland was shot, and absolutely could not have had the capacity to muster anything of consideration. There was no such thing as physical rehabilitation back then, so once injured, it was all over for Williams. The fact that Ali didn't flatten Cleveland within 5 seconds of the opening bell probably indicates (to many who have opined in the past) that Ali was washed up by the time this fight took place.

So no kudos for performance, no indication of power, and it is very misleading to use this event to attempt to gain any insight into Ali's abilities.

I hope I have cleared this up.

[yancey]

Actually Cleveland Williams was a paraplegic (or was it quadriplegic?) when he faced Ali.......so you can't count that.

EVEN THOUGH...he seemed to do very well against other opponents both before and after his fight with Ali. We (or you) are not allowed to factor that in.

Anything Ali did in that fight, can not be factored in.....because Cleveland was shot, and absolutely could not have had the capacity to muster anything of consideration. There was no such thing as physical rehabilitation back then, so once injured, it was all over for Williams. The fact that Ali didn't flatten Cleveland within 5 seconds of the opening bell probably indicates (to many who have opined in the past) that Ali was washed up by the time this fight took place.

So no kudos for performance, no indication of power, and it is very misleading to use this event to attempt to gain any insight into Ali's abilities.

I hope I have cleared this up.

Admirable attempt, but you neglected to mention that Big Cat and Mrs. Big Cat found out in the dressing room before the fight that Bud Adams had attached Cleveland's paycheck from the fight.

Tough to get motivated when....

A. You are physically a shell of your former self.
B. You ain't getting paid.

And with all that, Ali still couldn't produce a clean KO.

Maybe he forgot to use the "anchor punch."

[Redback Rasta]

jab ... ali
hook ... tyson

[ClivePatrickLyons]

over 15 round's ali allday

[BoxBuzz]

Actually Cleveland Williams was a paraplegic (or was it quadriplegic?) when he faced Ali.......so you can't count that.

EVEN THOUGH...he seemed to do very well against other opponents both before and after his fight with Ali. We (or you) are not allowed to factor that in.

Anything Ali did in that fight, can not be factored in.....because Cleveland was shot, and absolutely could not have had the capacity to muster anything of consideration. There was no such thing as physical rehabilitation back then, so once injured, it was all over for Williams. The fact that Ali didn't flatten Cleveland within 5 seconds of the opening bell probably indicates (to many who have opined in the past) that Ali was washed up by the time this fight took place.

So no kudos for performance, no indication of power, and it is very misleading to use this event to attempt to gain any insight into Ali's abilities.

I hope I have cleared this up.

Admirable attempt, but you neglected to mention that Big Cat and Mrs. Big Cat found out in the dressing room before the fight that Bud Adams had attached Cleveland's paycheck from the fight.

Tough to get motivated when....

A. You are physically a shell of your former self.
B. You ain't getting paid.

And with all that, Ali still couldn't produce a clean KO.

Maybe he forgot to use the "anchor punch."

Well of course that too...the man had no pride, and wasn't a fighter at heart. and those actions did not make him want to take the championship so others could choke on what he was told....he just went out and let Ali have his way from first bell to last. It's all very clear from the film.

You are right again sir! And as always we are lockstep agreement!

[razzledaz]

Although he was a small heavyweight Floyd Patterson had faster hands than both of them but Ali definitely had quicker hand speed than Tyson.

[man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51090bGcoR8

this footage doesn't seem doctored with
and the slow motion part looks like normal
speed. young mike tyson had unheard of
heavyweight speed and power.

[Rexob]

over 15 round's ali allday

? how do you know Tyson never fought a 15 round fight?

[Ambling Alp II]

Although he was a small heavyweight Floyd Patterson had faster hands than both of them but Ali definitely had quicker hand speed than Tyson.

I just don't see opponents unable to deal with Patterson's hand speed like they did with Ali. When they fought each other, Ali seemed to have much quicker hand speed. Patterson's hands were probably slightly faster than Tyson's.

[Hackspa]

It's widely accepted that Ali had faster hands than Tyson. In the ring I believe it's the different styles
that affects their hand speed. I believe Tyson had the fastest hands of any heavyweight in history but
because of his height and his style he never got to display pure speed, it was always power and throwing
punches to do damage. Ali was a tall lanky fighter with excellent reach, speed was his game and fit his
style perfectly. Ali would use his fast jab to frustrate fighters and keep them away, he'd wear them down,
frustrate them into making mistakes or taking chances and then time them coming in with a hard shot
followed by a flurry or combination. If you watch them shadow box, to me, Tyson is clearly faster, but
his style calls for power in his counters and doing maximum damage with each punch. His game was
never volume, but damage. So I think his height and style never allowed him to truly showcase his hand
speed. Just my 2 cents though, I could be wrong. Maybe sport science could break it down from film
one day.

[foxdog1923]

jab ... ali
hook ... tyson

No further words needed.

[Kalan]

These two are widely considered to have the fastest hands in HW history

Norton, Spinks, Frazier, Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield had faster hands than these 2 gents -- and beat them to the punch consistently...

Roy Jones had much faster hands and he's a Heavyweight Champion nobody talks about... Gene Tunney probably had the fastest hands of any Heavyweight... Joshua and Haye have extremely fast hands -- certainly faster than anyone since Louis... Wladimir also had very fast hands at his best.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Actually Cleveland Williams was a paraplegic (or was it quadriplegic?) when he faced Ali.......so you can't count that.

EVEN THOUGH...he seemed to do very well against other opponents both before and after his fight with Ali. We (or you) are not allowed to factor that in.

Anything Ali did in that fight, can not be factored in.....because Cleveland was shot, and absolutely could not have had the capacity to muster anything of consideration. There was no such thing as physical rehabilitation back then, so once injured, it was all over for Williams. The fact that Ali didn't flatten Cleveland within 5 seconds of the opening bell probably indicates (to many who have opined in the past) that Ali was washed up by the time this fight took place.

So no kudos for performance, no indication of power, and it is very misleading to use this event to attempt to gain any insight into Ali's abilities.

I hope I have cleared this up.

that's on the short list of the most overrated performances in boxing history. Ali clearly had faster hands than Tyson. Mike may have been marginally faster than evander. Hard to tell because holyfield had infinitely better footwork and an actual ring is.

[Kalan]

Ali clearly had faster hands than Tyson. Mike may have been marginally faster than evander

Mike had much faster hands than Ali.. Michael Spinks weighed 212 and had never been beaten when he fought Tyson.. Michael Spinks beat Larry Holmes because he had superior hand speed to Holmes... but Tyson destroyed the undefeated Michael Spinks and ripped him very easily.. That's the only fight Spinks ever lost.. Larry Holmes beat Ali to the punch 1000% of the time.. Ali's hands were was so slow he couldn't land a single good punch on Holmes.. Surely you have something left at that age if Floyd Mayweather, Sergio Martinez, and Wladimir Klitschko could still win at 38.

[wvboxer]

Ali at 38 had WAY more wear & tear on his body than Klischko or Mayweather. Neither of those fighters had taken the punishment inside the ring & during sparring that Ali took. Do fighters even spar as much as they used to? Only things I saw Floyd do was hit the pads & skip rope. Plus, I also think boxers are better conditioned today than years ago. Ali wasn't conditioned at all for the Holmes fight. He was thin but no muscle tone at all. He was more concerned with getting his weight down than truely being in shape.

[Bricks]

Clearly the 1960s ALi had far faster hands and feet than any version of Mike Tyson

The problem is not all of Alis defences or early fights showcasing this are shown often or shown at all.

Wheras Tysons 1985-88 rise is perhaps the most viewed most documented career of all time. Certainly in terms of all the espn classic reruns.

Check out Alis demolition of Brian London to see Alis speed in a manner not often seen.

On the other points. Ali in the 1970s had far far far far more gruelling fights than a Tyson and his rope a dope in fights and sparring was designed to slow him down take away his legs yet he was still a very fast fighter hands and feet throughout the 70s .

The lack of training nutrition in those days, the misuse of thyroid pills, his favourite diet of not so lean steaks and 2 at a time with 8 full eggs meant Ali's speed was even more compromised by his lack of cosmetic physical conditioning at times during the 1970s

[cfang]

Although he was a small heavyweight Floyd Patterson had faster hands than both of them but Ali definitely had quicker hand speed than Tyson.

[Kalan]

Tyson has blazingly fast hands and he had brutal power... Ali's hands were moderately fast and he couldn't get Alfredo Evangelista or Rudi Lubbers out of there... Now, obviously Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick brutalized Ali... Ali was too slow to hit them good... Tyson smashed Holmes and Berbick out very quickly and they couldn't get away from Mike's faster than fast hands that put them out in a hurry.

Of course you wouldn't want to take the above examples because Ali wasn't young like Mike was (20) when he knocked those guys out... So instead I'm going to take somebody Ali and Tyson fought when they were each only 21 ... Blown up Light Heavyweight Doug Jones (188) who Ali fought when he was 21... And blown up Light Heavyweight Michael Spinks (212) who Tyson fought when HE was 21...Ali was very slow fisted and missed a bunch of punches versus Dough Jones, who previously lost every round to Light Heavyweight Champion Harold Johnson. Ali barely won a controversial decision over Jones ... But Mike Tyson was blazing fast and super powerful handing the Undefeated ATG Light Heavyweight AND Heavyweight Champion Michael Spinks his FIRST and ONLY defeat of his professional career in 90 seconds... Tyson crushed Spinks... So there was a big differences in those performances when they were at their 21-year-old fastest as it related to hand speed.