BoxRec

I can see both of these guys outboxing him, but at the same time I can see Murray winning rounds against DeGale by outworking him, and possibly dragging Groves into the trenches and testing his stamina. Would be some very good fights and tough to call.

Loses to both imo - Murray just doesn't seem to have the ability to go up the gears.

Loses competitive decisions to both, has a much better chance against Abraham.

Boxerbeetle wrote:Loses to both imo - Murray just doesn't seem to have the ability to go up the gears.

X2. That was evident in the Sturm fight. Sturm gave him plenty of opportunities and he didn't take them. Was still close right enough.

I tend to agree with the above posts but do feel his best opportunity lies with the talked about fight with Arthur Abraham . That is , for me , a very winnable match up - although I wouldn't want it to go to the scorecards in Germany ! .

No chance against DeGale. Competitive against Groves. Slight favorite to beat Abraham.

I would fancy both to beat GGG and AA to give GGG a very competitive fight. Cant see Murray being able to compete a smw.

Finn wrote:I would fancy both to beat GGG and AA to give GGG a very competitive fight. Cant see Murray being able to compete a smw.

Am I hallucinating, or are you saying you would fancy Groves & DeGale to beat Golovkin?

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Finn wrote:I would fancy both to beat GGG and AA to give GGG a very competitive fight. Cant see Murray being able to compete a smw.

Am I hallucinating, or are you saying you would fancy Groves & DeGale to beat Golovkin?

I think it's not beyond the realms of possibility - how does GGG's power carry up to SMW, and how would he do in with a genuine banger in Groves?

Would be fascinating but, similar to the Froch/Golovkin talk, Golovkin 'could' struggle at SMW quite easily. Froch would have ground him down and stopped him late IMO.

MarkMcBurney wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Finn wrote:I would fancy both to beat GGG and AA to give GGG a very competitive fight. Cant see Murray being able to compete a smw.

Am I hallucinating, or are you saying you would fancy Groves & DeGale to beat Golovkin?

I think it's not beyond the realms of possibility - how does GGG's power carry up to SMW, and how would he do in with a genuine banger in Groves?

Would be fascinating but, similar to the Froch/Golovkin talk, Golovkin 'could' struggle at SMW quite easily. Froch would have ground him down and stopped him late IMO.

Groves may be a genuine banger, but no-one's come close to even putting a dent in Golovkin yet, and Groves is chinny. I could only see it going one way tbh - GGG would go through him. And DeGale would definitely be outworked by GGG, even if he did manage to last the distance.

But agree Froch would have been a very different proposition...

MarkMcBurney wrote:and how would he do in with a genuine banger in Groves?

Groves and GGG have had two camps sparring together now. I'd pay to see footage of that.

johnswan1 wrote:Groves and GGG have had two camps sparring together now. I'd pay to see footage of that.

Groves made it abundantly clear that he would not entertain the idea of facing Golovkin, ever. Murray fight though is a possibility, win or loose the title challenge.

Tarkus wrote:Groves made it abundantly clear that he would not entertain the idea of facing Golovkin, ever.

Source please.

Id prefer Murray's chances against Abraham than against his countrymen currently.

I also think we might see Murray gain a bit of speed and power with the additional weight too.

Whether it's enough, well we shall find out.

johnswan1 wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Groves made it abundantly clear that he would not entertain the idea of facing Golovkin, ever.

Source please.

That would be the source of common sense !

He doesn't want to be taking the kind of punch that ended the Froch fight - and GG would be dishing out those kind of punches.


To answer the original question - I too believe that both would beat Murray.

Murray is a good lad put can look one paced and a bit sluggish (even sometimes he looks as though he is punching through treacle).

johnswan1 wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Groves made it abundantly clear that he would not entertain the idea of facing Golovkin, ever.

Source please.

I thought the only thing with plenty of sources from Spencer Fearon to news sites and Ringside alluding to it was that Groves put Golovkin on the floor in sparring?

Obviously sparring is sparring and both were fighting at different weights and could have been at different stages in camps.

But it was a fairly well documented 'Secret'.

Never heard anything about Groves not wanting anything to do with GGG TBF.

Did the sources other than Fearon (is he associated with Groves?) just take the 'secret' from him though?

Boxerbeetle wrote:Loses to both imo - Murray just doesn't seem to have the ability to go up the gears.

x2, he just doesn't let his hands go enough and like a few Brits do now he boxes strictly to orders never taking any chances which is alright for your pure boxers but Murray just doesn't have enough in his arsenal to pull it off IMO

Groves and DeGale both beat him. His best chance is to make the Groves fight a war of attrition, even then I'm not sure he has the power to stop any top super middleweights. Has a better chance against Abraham but could still see AA winning a 115-113 type decision.

Boxerbeetle wrote:
Groves may be a genuine banger, but no-one's come close to even putting a dent in Golovkin yet, and Groves is chinny. I could only see it going one way tbh - GGG would go through him. And DeGale would definitely be outworked by GGG, even if he did manage to last the distance.

But agree Froch would have been a very different proposition...

Chinny based on what?

The Froch punch was perfect timing, rather than an massive shot, and that punch would have put anyone out cold, it was perfect.

Groves took a fair few digs in the first fight late on and was still on his feet.

Chinny? Not for me.

I agree Groves is not just chinny but is also somebody who will gas and fold if under serious pressure.

Froch hadn't scored a single punch KO in years despite landing flush many times on other top opponents - most were not even knocked down. It was a good punch no doubt but it asks severe questions about Groves's chin.

Groves was flattened and hurt by Kenny Anderson, was on queer street in the first Froch fight having had everything go his way early on, and was then sparked in the rematch.

What will happen next time Groves is hit on the chin by a top opponent? My guess is that he'll go to sleep again. I don't like Groves behavior outside of the ring but inside he's as game as anybody and I like him as a fighter, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jack beats him. My honest view is that he's an overachiever.

MarkMcBurney wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:
Groves may be a genuine banger, but no-one's come close to even putting a dent in Golovkin yet, and Groves is chinny. I could only see it going one way tbh - GGG would go through him. And DeGale would definitely be outworked by GGG, even if he did manage to last the distance.

But agree Froch would have been a very different proposition...

Chinny based on what?

The Froch punch was perfect timing, rather than an massive shot, and that punch would have put anyone out cold, it was perfect.

Groves took a fair few digs in the first fight late on and was still on his feet.

Chinny? Not for me.

I agree Groves being labelled chinny is over the top, he never got dropped in the first fight too, its more a lack of stamina.
khan also gets labelled chinny unfairly too, he took some big shots off Maidana and stayed on his feet, he didn't get knocked out by Garcia despite taking huge clean hooks. Both don't have the best of chins but I wouldn't label them as chinny.

Murray losses to DeGale and would be lucky to win 2 rounds, Groves would school him for 6 rounds but then as he fades Murray might be able to nick a few rounds.

johnswan1 wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Groves made it abundantly clear that he would not entertain the idea of facing Golovkin, ever.

Source please.

The source was iFL interview discussing Froch Groves possibility where he implied that taking on GGG would be crazy, and he would not want it either. I can post it if I find it.

digzee wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:
Groves may be a genuine banger, but no-one's come close to even putting a dent in Golovkin yet, and Groves is chinny. I could only see it going one way tbh - GGG would go through him. And DeGale would definitely be outworked by GGG, even if he did manage to last the distance.

But agree Froch would have been a very different proposition...

Chinny based on what?

The Froch punch was perfect timing, rather than an massive shot, and that punch would have put anyone out cold, it was perfect.

Groves took a fair few digs in the first fight late on and was still on his feet.

Chinny? Not for me.

I agree Groves being labelled chinny is over the top, he never got dropped in the first fight too, its more a lack of stamina.
khan also gets labelled chinny unfairly too, he took some big shots off Maidana and stayed on his feet, he didn't get knocked out by Garcia despite taking huge clean hooks. Both don't have the best of chins but I wouldn't label them as chinny.

Murray losses to DeGale and would be lucky to win 2 rounds, Groves would school him for 6 rounds but then as he fades Murray might be able to nick a few rounds.

Groves would have got dropped if the 1st Froch fight wasn't stopped, and who else has Froch ko'd with a single punch? As mentioned above, the Anderson fight also demonstrated his fragility.

And wow - if Khan isn't chinny then I don't know who is.

Yeah Khan is definitely chinny. Maidana doesn't really KO anybody with single punches, more of a case of him beating guys into submission, and Khan has good heart and stamina. Khan has been hurt repeatedly throughout his career with single shots. He's probably the chinniest top fighter in the sport right now, although you'd have to think Wilder is up there too. David Price has the worst combo going - shockingly bad chin, poor stamina, and a heavy. That division is littered with fat bastards who can not just stuff their gobs with junk food but can also take a shot and do rounds. Poor Pricey never had a chance.