BoxRec

Wow the kid is as complete a fighter as there is in boxing today.

His arsenal of shots and positioning is just remarkable, a real treat to watch and at 28 he has a long dominant career ahead of him.

kidbazooka1 wrote:Wow the kid is as complete a fighter as there is in boxing today.

His arsenal of shots and positioning is just remarkable, a real treat to watch and at 28 he has a long dominant career ahead of him.

44 fights 0 losses, against very quality opposition

and like you said, his footowork etc is top of the top, he is the new 1

Chepppaaa wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:Wow the kid is as complete a fighter as there is in boxing today.

His arsenal of shots and positioning is just remarkable, a real treat to watch and at 28 he has a long dominant career ahead of him.

44 fights 0 losses, against very quality opposition

and like you said, his footowork etc is top of the top, he is the new 1

No doubt about it imo.

Gonzalez has it all a very high level text book fighter.

Wladimir is number one his longevity and overall record sees to that. Gonzalez has beaten Estrada and that edges him ahead of Golovkin at number two. Golovkin needs to beat a Cotto / Canelo to add to his resume before he can challenge Gonzalez for the number two spot. If Kovalev can beat Stevenson / Ward then an argument could be made for him too.

He didn't look like the best P4P to me he's good.....but P4P number 1 come on

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:He didn't look like the best P4P to me he's good.....but P4P number 1 come on

What negatives did you see Clive?

Ian1973 wrote:Wladimir is number one his longevity and overall record sees to that. Gonzalez has beaten Estrada and that edges him ahead of Golovkin at number two. Golovkin needs to beat a Cotto / Canelo to add to his resume before he can challenge Gonzalez for the number two spot. If Kovalev can beat Stevenson / Ward then an argument could be made for him too.

I don't think Wlad should be in the top 5. Yes, he's done everything that can be asked of him, but how much credit should you get for ruling a very weak division? He's good at what he does, but he's far from a complete fighter - no inside game aside from holding and he doesn't know how to throw an uppercut. He's by far the best heavyweight and an ATG, but it's hard to judge how good he really is against such feeble competition.

jezzamundo wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:Wladimir is number one his longevity and overall record sees to that. Gonzalez has beaten Estrada and that edges him ahead of Golovkin at number two. Golovkin needs to beat a Cotto / Canelo to add to his resume before he can challenge Gonzalez for the number two spot. If Kovalev can beat Stevenson / Ward then an argument could be made for him too.

I don't think Wlad should be in the top 5. Yes, he's done everything that can be asked of him, but how much credit should you get for ruling a very weak division? He's good at what he does, but he's far from a complete fighter - no inside game aside from holding and he doesn't know how to throw an uppercut. He's by far the best heavyweight and an ATG, but it's hard to judge how good he really is against such feeble competition.

Not any better than Felix Sturm right?

WKlit
Krusher
3G
Chocolatito
Crawford
GingerHead
Brook
Walters
Stevenson
Postol

I could see Gonzalez or Golovkin being #1. If someone suggested Kovalev they'd get no argument from me. I would mention Ward, but that's hard to say when his last win over two years is an unmotivated Paul Smith. If Inoue recovers (he was injured to my understanding) and becomes active again I think he could certainly be mentioned.

Basically, I don't think it's that clear, there are other contenders to what's always going to be a subjective title. But that's pretty much always true in boxing.

Tomasino wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:He didn't look like the best P4P to me he's good.....but P4P number 1 come on

What negatives did you see Clive?

I didn't see the devastating KO power that every-one made out he had........... he has good power not devastating and his defence isn't the best either and for a smaller fighter his speed aint the best either he looks to be good in most department's but not excellent he did take Viloria
best punche's quite easily but what if he faced better competition like a Ricardo Lopez or a Michael Carbajal/Humberto Gonzalez who can bang
and I must say it isn't his fault [Roman Gonzalez] that his last 3 opponent's were in their 30's for a fighter in that weight class your used by date is usually long gone by then he as only ever met 2 fighter's that were undefeated at the time of their meeting in his 4th fight his opponent was 5-0 at the time he is now14 win's 12 losse's the other bloke is like needle in a hay stack other boxing star's of today have met much higher calibre of opponent's..............its just my opinion.

Gonzalez looked great last night his combos are a thing of beauty. He may not be the most popular but he's the best boxer with Floyd now retired, and its nice to see the media giving the kid his props.

Gonzalez vs Finito or carbajal would have been a dream fantasy match.

Finito was as flawless as a prize fighter could be.

Gonzalez was too easy to hit against Viloria. Golovkin's was the better performance on the night. Some people are making out that Gonzalez is flawless, he isn't.

crusader wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:Wladimir is number one his longevity and overall record sees to that. Gonzalez has beaten Estrada and that edges him ahead of Golovkin at number two. Golovkin needs to beat a Cotto / Canelo to add to his resume before he can challenge Gonzalez for the number two spot. If Kovalev can beat Stevenson / Ward then an argument could be made for him too.

I don't think Wlad should be in the top 5. Yes, he's done everything that can be asked of him, but how much credit should you get for ruling a very weak division? He's good at what he does, but he's far from a complete fighter - no inside game aside from holding and he doesn't know how to throw an uppercut. He's by far the best heavyweight and an ATG, but it's hard to judge how good he really is against such feeble competition.

Not any better than Felix Sturm right?

Did you remember me saying that? If so, I'm quite flattered!

There really isn't a lighter weight equivalent of Wlad that I can think of. Sturm is a more complete fighter, but obviously lacking in Wlad's power, even in a p4p sense.

Chocolatito is very impressive and don't get me wrong but there's no way he should hold the #1 P4P ranking over GGG. Once GGG retires in about 7 or 8 years undefeated with all knockouts and a couple more significant victories people will start appreciating what we are seeing right now. I've been a diehard boxing fan since mid 70's so I can only speak to what I've seen in that time but I feel comfortable saying that GGG is the best all around boxer I've ever seen in my life. Mind you, my favorite boxer was SRL as well and there's no doubt in my mind that if they fought right now, both in their prime, GGG would knock him out easily. Not even close.

So people can go on minimizing what they are seeing and never give GGG the credit he deserves, I'm going to sit back and enjoy the heck out of watching this kid's career. Because we will never see anyone like him again. This is beyond special and these detractors can say whatever they want if they want to refuse to use their eyes.

Tanzio wrote:WKlit
Krusher
3G
Chocolatito
Crawford
GingerHead
Brook
Walters
Stevenson
Postol

Postol is nowhere near a Top 10 P4P ranking at the moment.
Matthysse is his only big win so far.
He needs to face Crawford to decide if he's even the best LWW in the world.

Bobbyptsd wrote:I could see Gonzalez or Golovkin being #1. If someone suggested Kovalev they'd get no argument from me. I would mention Ward, but that's hard to say when his last win over two years is an unmotivated Paul Smith. If Inoue recovers (he was injured to my understanding) and becomes active again I think he could certainly be mentioned.

Basically, I don't think it's that clear, there are other contenders to what's always going to be a subjective title. But that's pretty much always true in boxing.

Apparently he'll be back December 29th vs Parrenas in a mandatory, probably a Narvaez rematch early next year then too

Boxing Prospect wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:I could see Gonzalez or Golovkin being #1. If someone suggested Kovalev they'd get no argument from me. I would mention Ward, but that's hard to say when his last win over two years is an unmotivated Paul Smith. If Inoue recovers (he was injured to my understanding) and becomes active again I think he could certainly be mentioned.

Basically, I don't think it's that clear, there are other contenders to what's always going to be a subjective title. But that's pretty much always true in boxing.

Apparently he'll be back December 29th vs Parrenas in a mandatory, probably a Narvaez rematch early next year then too

Narvaez rematch

Ian1973 wrote:Gonzalez was too easy to hit against Viloria. Golovkin's was the better performance on the night. Some people are making out that Gonzalez is flawless, he isn't.

Viloria is much, MUCH better than Lemieux. He fought a darn sight harder, too.

PredatorHayds wrote:

Tanzio wrote:WKlit
Krusher
3G
Chocolatito
Crawford
GingerHead
Brook
Walters
Stevenson
Postol

Postol is nowhere near a Top 10 P4P ranking at the moment.
Matthysse is his only big win so far.
He needs to face Crawford to decide if he's even the best LWW in the world.

You may have also noticed that I have two welters and two light heavies in my list.

To clarify on Viloria/Lemieux: to name just two elements, firstly Viloria is much more skilled. And secondly I could just name his two best recent-ish wins, the hammer-fornicating he gave Segura and the ten tonnes of brick-fornicate he dropped on Marquez, these on there own are better wins than Lemieux has ever dreamed about.

Counter-puncher wrote:To clarify on Viloria/Lemieux: to name just two elements, firstly Viloria is much more skilled. And secondly I could just name his two best recent-ish wins, the hammer-fornicating he gave Segura and the ten tonnes of brick-fornicate he dropped on Marquez, these on there own are better wins than Lemieux has ever dreamed about.

Number of world titlists Lemieux has beaten = 0

Number of world titlists Viloria has beaten = Omar Nino Romero, Hernan Marquez, Giovanni Segura, Julio Cesar Miranda, Ulises Solis, Eric Ortiz, Jose Antonio Aguirre... That's just off the top of my head, mind.

But yeah, battering a Lemieux who didn't show up is obviously far far more impressive than beating down a glorious veteran with wins in over a dozen world title fights who came to die in the ring. Obviously.

Also, which guy was bigger, eh, eh? Tell me that. You can't compare beating a flyweight to beating a middleweight! & also, which one had fabulous hipster hair?

Open & shut case, innit.

If a kindly passing scientist could magically upscale Viloria to about 165lbs he would utterly power-rape Lemieux.

Datsue wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:To clarify on Viloria/Lemieux: to name just two elements, firstly Viloria is much more skilled. And secondly I could just name his two best recent-ish wins, the hammer-fornicating he gave Segura and the ten tonnes of brick-fornicate he dropped on Marquez, these on there own are better wins than Lemieux has ever dreamed about.

Number of world titlists Lemieux has beaten = 0

Number of world titlists Viloria has beaten = Omar Nino Romero, Hernan Marquez, Giovanni Segura, Julio Cesar Miranda, Ulises Solis, Eric Ortiz, Jose Antonio Aguirre... That's just off the top of my head, mind.

But yeah, battering a Lemieux who didn't show up is obviously far far more impressive than beating down a glorious veteran with wins in over a dozen world title fights who came to die in the ring. Obviously.

Also, which guy was bigger, eh, eh? Tell me that. You can't compare beating a flyweight to beating a middleweight! & also, which one had fabulous hipster hair?

Open & shut case, innit.

I completely agree that Viloria is the bigger win but how exactly did Lemieux not show up? He was outclassed in every aspect of boxing but he certainly did show up and do his best.

While chocolatito faced the more accomplished opponent than 3G did, Lemieux faced the more intimidating force. Lemieux was the one having his head nearly torn off by piston jabs. Lemieux absorbed the more devastatingly powerful punishment. Lemieux faced the more daunting physical disadvantages.

3G also faced the more dangerous one punch power and completely nullified it.

Lemieux deserves more respect for his performance, especially for his tolerance for punishment.

I don't think p4p Lemoeux hits that much harder than Viloria if at all. And I think Viloria 'showed up' waaaay more than Lemieux, in the sense.of being visibly more willing to get punched in the face on account of actually throwing quite a lot of his own punches, with conviction, none of which I saw much of from lemieux