BoxRec

Just looking over the career record of Glenn. Fought some shite in his career and some decent journeymen heavies, John Westgarth, Dave Garside, Hughroy Currie, met a few decent cruisers too Lou Gent, Tee Jay etc. Then met Steve Mormino in a cruiserweight fight where Mormino had lost the last 7 of 8 fights and lanaded a IBF Cruiserweight title shot.

Patrick Limumba had only 10 fights prior to meeting McCrory so how the hell he got into a position to earna title shot is beyond me. If you add up the wins to losses in those 10 fights of every oppoent faced by Lumumba the record is 229 wins to 106 losses, so the opposition was nothing special looking at the wins to loss ratio.

Glenn could not mix with genuine heavies as Lennox lewis showed that McCrory was way out of his class that night and folded like a cheap Penguin book. His next 2 opponents again had very poor records before McCrory went to Russia and faced a half decent Al Cole who infact had a decent run of world title fights until he possibly ran over the hill after facing Tim Witherspoon, his career went on a downward slide facing some top heavies and decent opponents to the end of his career.

Glenn in my opinion must have been in the right place at th eright time as surely there was better qualified cruisers out there at the time. Not sure what ranking glenn was but its hard to believe he was ranked number 1 if indeed he was.

At the end of the day he won a world title but deserved? Not really, poor champion in my opinion who faced 2 poor Africans who themselves should never been in any position to fight for a title.

He was a good boxer but not really special or spectacular. He was a big cruiser but a small heavyweight. Glenn v Sammy Reason would have been interesting. The body shot from Lampkin that took away Glenn's title was a monster punch.

He sparred with Tyson though

You make your own luck.

Sklar wrote:You make your own luck.

couldn't agree with you more

mimmy123 wrote:Just looking over the career record of Glenn. Fought some shite in his career and some decent journeymen heavies, John Westgarth, Dave Garside, Hughroy Currie, met a few decent cruisers too Lou Gent, Tee Jay etc. Then met Steve Mormino in a cruiserweight fight where Mormino had lost the last 7 of 8 fights and lanaded a IBF Cruiserweight title shot.

Patrick Limumba had only 10 fights prior to meeting McCrory so how the hell he got into a position to earna title shot is beyond me. If you add up the wins to losses in those 10 fights of every oppoent faced by Lumumba the record is 229 wins to 106 losses, so the opposition was nothing special looking at the wins to loss ratio.

Glenn could not mix with genuine heavies as Lennox lewis showed that McCrory was way out of his class that night and folded like a cheap Penguin book. His next 2 opponents again had very poor records before McCrory went to Russia and faced a half decent Al Cole who infact had a decent run of world title fights until he possibly ran over the hill after facing Tim Witherspoon, his career went on a downward slide facing some top heavies and decent opponents to the end of his career.

Glenn in my opinion must have been in the right place at th eright time as surely there was better qualified cruisers out there at the time. Not sure what ranking glenn was but its hard to believe he was ranked number 1 if indeed he was.

At the end of the day he won a world title but deserved? Not really, poor champion in my opinion who faced 2 poor Africans who themselves should never been in any position to fight for a title.

I might be wrong but this reads like all your criticisms come from just looking at his record & those of his opponents without actually seeing any of these fights & there's a lot more to boxing than that.

Far worse than him have been given title shots, the difference is he won the belt & fair play to him.

He couldn't mix with Heavyweights at all, far too small & getting done by Lennox Lewis is hardly a criticism.

To be fair, yes he was in the right place at the right time (and therefore lucky) however how many british boxers who have won world titles over the last 20 years could be described as being the best in their weight division?

One thing I don't understand is the "small heavy" thing. Isn't he about 6 foot 4 - and this was before the current trend of massive heavyweights.

moogie101 wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:Just looking over the career record of Glenn. Fought some shite in his career and some decent journeymen heavies, John Westgarth, Dave Garside, Hughroy Currie, met a few decent cruisers too Lou Gent, Tee Jay etc. Then met Steve Mormino in a cruiserweight fight where Mormino had lost the last 7 of 8 fights and lanaded a IBF Cruiserweight title shot.

Patrick Limumba had only 10 fights prior to meeting McCrory so how the hell he got into a position to earna title shot is beyond me. If you add up the wins to losses in those 10 fights of every oppoent faced by Lumumba the record is 229 wins to 106 losses, so the opposition was nothing special looking at the wins to loss ratio.

Glenn could not mix with genuine heavies as Lennox lewis showed that McCrory was way out of his class that night and folded like a cheap Penguin book. His next 2 opponents again had very poor records before McCrory went to Russia and faced a half decent Al Cole who infact had a decent run of world title fights until he possibly ran over the hill after facing Tim Witherspoon, his career went on a downward slide facing some top heavies and decent opponents to the end of his career.

Glenn in my opinion must have been in the right place at th eright time as surely there was better qualified cruisers out there at the time. Not sure what ranking glenn was but its hard to believe he was ranked number 1 if indeed he was.

At the end of the day he won a world title but deserved? Not really, poor champion in my opinion who faced 2 poor Africans who themselves should never been in any position to fight for a title.

I might be wrong but this reads like all your criticisms come from just looking at his record & those of his opponents without actually seeing any of these fights & there's a lot more to boxing than that.

Far worse than him have been given title shots, the difference is he won the belt & fair play to him.

He couldn't mix with Heavyweights at all, far too small & getting done by Lennox Lewis is hardly a criticism.

Moogie, ive seen many McCrory fights this is not the issue, my post was mearly to get a topic going to discuss. I placed a breakdown wins to looses to show many of the fighter who Glenn fought werent actually world class and often had many losses to their names.

As I said in my post, Glenn must have been in the right place at the right time. How come 2 other decent world class fighters never got a shot at the vacant title? 2 names in a bag and pull out McCrory and Lumumba?

Fair do's he won a world title.

Given he dedicated his life to the sport, overcame a run of 4 losses in 5 fights early in his career to win Commonwealth, British and later IBF World title and defend that title, I would say he was not lucky at all.

He was a reigning British and Commonwealth champion and beat Chisanda Mutti in a tight one which was a damn good result at the time. He was in the right place at the right time in the sense that Evander Holyfield relinquished his belts at the same time so you had an opportunity for the lucky six.

Let me think who fought for the vacant belts.

Taoufik Belbouli vs Michael Greer (WBA)

Sammy Reeson vs Carlos de Leon (WBC)

Patrick Lumbumba vs Glenn McCrory (IBF)

Lubumba beat Alfonzo Ratliff and Jeff Lampkin in the States, very good results, on the back of those results, even on reflection - they both deserved their title shot.

Fat Git wrote:He was a reigning British and Commonwealth champion and beat Chisanda Mutti in a tight one which was a damn good result at the time. He was in the right place at the right time in the sense that Evander Holyfield relinquished his belts at the same time so you had an opportunity for the lucky six.

Let me think who fought for the vacant belts.

Taoufik Belbouli vs Michael Greer (WBA)

Sammy Reeson vs Carlos de Leon (WBC)

Patrick Lumbumba vs Glenn McCrory (IBF)

Lubumba beat Alfonzo Ratliff and Jeff Lampkin in the States, very good results, on the back of those results, even on reflection - they both deserved their title shot.

Do you think McCrory could have beaten any of those other guys who contested the other vacant titles?

I would not class Glenn as particularly fortunate to win a world title; he'd won decent belts to get into that position and overcome some pretty severe setbacks as a heavyweight to get there as well.

The division was not regularly packed with top-line talent back then either; so he beat what was on offer and took his opportunity.

I'd class Glenn has a guy who made the most of what he had got and who got rewarded for his perseverance as well.

mimmy123 wrote:

Fat Git wrote:He was a reigning British and Commonwealth champion and beat Chisanda Mutti in a tight one which was a damn good result at the time. He was in the right place at the right time in the sense that Evander Holyfield relinquished his belts at the same time so you had an opportunity for the lucky six.

Let me think who fought for the vacant belts.

Taoufik Belbouli vs Michael Greer (WBA)

Sammy Reeson vs Carlos de Leon (WBC)

Patrick Lumbumba vs Glenn McCrory (IBF)

Lubumba beat Alfonzo Ratliff and Jeff Lampkin in the States, very good results, on the back of those results, even on reflection - they both deserved their title shot.

Do you think McCrory could have beaten any of those other guys who contested the other vacant titles?

I think he was in with a shout with Sammy Reeson and Michael Greer, don't know enough about Belbouli.

bripez wrote:
One thing I don't understand is the "small heavy" thing. Isn't he about 6 foot 4 - and this was before the current trend of massive heavyweights.

Referring to his build not height.

Lucky? It all depends on how you define that. Cruiser was a newish division, but Glen fought hard and won the title with a great display agisnt the nominated guy. You could argue that Michael Spinks was lucky to win the world heavyweight championship....

I think I must be massively missing the point of this thread.

First, there were a zillion IBF title fights in the 1980s that were far worse than this, including some that involved ringers, people on series of losses etc (and Jim Brady's book Boxing Confidential is brilliant on that kind of thing). Not that that answers the question, but it does give some context. If anything, this was probably one of the best IBF fights for a vacant title in the 1980s.

Looking at the detail of records rather than just the numbers is important. Some comments on Lumumba as follows:

- What does the fact that Lumumba had an 8-2 record matter? In his fights before McCrory, Lumumba beat former world cruiser champion Alfonso Ratliff, and future world cruiser champion Jeff Lampkin. In total, in his 10 fights before facing McCrory, he faced 5 guys (Tafer, Seys, Evangelista, Ratliff, Lampkin) who either challenged for or won EBU or world titles. That alone is sufficient good form for a world title shot, and far better than many fighters with a glossy "-0" record.

- it is very likely that the Boxrec career record for Lumumba is incomplete. Does anyone really believe that he would have made his pro debut against someone with a 20-fight record with more wins than losses, and then get thrown in with a 30-odd fight former European champion away in France in fight 2, with an 0-1 record at the time? It's vaguely possible, but doesn't stack up for me. Would it really make him more credible if his record was, say, 18-2, with 10 wins against journeyman added at the start?

- he clearly took some fights at heavyweight to get work, giving away 70lbs to James Broad but still flooring him, beating former EBU heavy champion Evangelista, who still got a shot at the EBU title in his next fight, and so on. The arrival of the cruiser division would have been a godsend to him.

So there was 100% nothing wrong with Lumumba as a title challenger, and everything right about it. As for whether McCrory was a deserving challenger, I believe that being Chisanda Mutti alone was sufficient, although I appreciate there may be more debate there. But beating Lumumba puts any debate on McCrory's worthiness to bed.

Based on the cruiserweight rankings at the time and ignoring fighters tied up fighting for other world titles, who was more deserving of the shot than these two?

olij999 wrote:I think I must be massively missing the point of this thread.

First, there were a zillion IBF title fights in the 1980s that were far worse than this, including some that involved ringers, people on series of losses etc (and Jim Brady's book Boxing Confidential is brilliant on that kind of thing). Not that that answers the question, but it does give some context. If anything, this was probably one of the best IBF fights for a vacant title in the 1980s.

Looking at the detail of records rather than just the numbers is important. Some comments on Lumumba as follows:

- What does the fact that Lumumba had an 8-2 record matter? In his fights before McCrory, Lumumba beat former world cruiser champion Alfonso Ratliff, and future world cruiser champion Jeff Lampkin. In total, in his 10 fights before facing McCrory, he faced 5 guys (Tafer, Seys, Evangelista, Ratliff, Lampkin) who either challenged for or won EBU or world titles. That alone is sufficient good form for a world title shot, and far better than many fighters with a glossy "-0" record.

- it is very likely that the Boxrec career record for Lumumba is incomplete. Does anyone really believe that he would have made his pro debut against someone with a 20-fight record with more wins than losses, and then get thrown in with a 30-odd fight former European champion away in France in fight 2, with an 0-1 record at the time? It's vaguely possible, but doesn't stack up for me. Would it really make him more credible if his record was, say, 18-2, with 10 wins against journeyman added at the start?

- he clearly took some fights at heavyweight to get work, giving away 70lbs to James Broad but still flooring him, beating former EBU heavy champion Evangelista, who still got a shot at the EBU title in his next fight, and so on. The arrival of the cruiser division would have been a godsend to him.

So there was 100% nothing wrong with Lumumba as a title challenger, and everything right about it. As for whether McCrory was a deserving challenger, I believe that being Chisanda Mutti alone was sufficient, although I appreciate there may be more debate there. But beating Lumumba puts any debate on McCrory's worthiness to bed.

Based on the cruiserweight rankings at the time and ignoring fighters tied up fighting for other world titles, who was more deserving of the shot than these two?

Great read that.

mimmy123 wrote:

olij999 wrote:I think I must be massively missing the point of this thread.

First, there were a zillion IBF title fights in the 1980s that were far worse than this, including some that involved ringers, people on series of losses etc (and Jim Brady's book Boxing Confidential is brilliant on that kind of thing). Not that that answers the question, but it does give some context. If anything, this was probably one of the best IBF fights for a vacant title in the 1980s.

Looking at the detail of records rather than just the numbers is important. Some comments on Lumumba as follows:

- What does the fact that Lumumba had an 8-2 record matter? In his fights before McCrory, Lumumba beat former world cruiser champion Alfonso Ratliff, and future world cruiser champion Jeff Lampkin. In total, in his 10 fights before facing McCrory, he faced 5 guys (Tafer, Seys, Evangelista, Ratliff, Lampkin) who either challenged for or won EBU or world titles. That alone is sufficient good form for a world title shot, and far better than many fighters with a glossy "-0" record.

- it is very likely that the Boxrec career record for Lumumba is incomplete. Does anyone really believe that he would have made his pro debut against someone with a 20-fight record with more wins than losses, and then get thrown in with a 30-odd fight former European champion away in France in fight 2, with an 0-1 record at the time? It's vaguely possible, but doesn't stack up for me. Would it really make him more credible if his record was, say, 18-2, with 10 wins against journeyman added at the start?

- he clearly took some fights at heavyweight to get work, giving away 70lbs to James Broad but still flooring him, beating former EBU heavy champion Evangelista, who still got a shot at the EBU title in his next fight, and so on. The arrival of the cruiser division would have been a godsend to him.

So there was 100% nothing wrong with Lumumba as a title challenger, and everything right about it. As for whether McCrory was a deserving challenger, I believe that being Chisanda Mutti alone was sufficient, although I appreciate there may be more debate there. But beating Lumumba puts any debate on McCrory's worthiness to bed.

Based on the cruiserweight rankings at the time and ignoring fighters tied up fighting for other world titles, who was more deserving of the shot than these two?

Great read that.

Thanks. Think I will check the old Youtube footage to see if they announce a record for Lumumba on the TV feed, and will also have a look at old Boxing Newses and Ring Magazine - I am a bit geeky about record queries.

olij999 wrote:

mimmy123 wrote:

olij999 wrote:I think I must be massively missing the point of this thread.

First, there were a zillion IBF title fights in the 1980s that were far worse than this, including some that involved ringers, people on series of losses etc (and Jim Brady's book Boxing Confidential is brilliant on that kind of thing). Not that that answers the question, but it does give some context. If anything, this was probably one of the best IBF fights for a vacant title in the 1980s.

Looking at the detail of records rather than just the numbers is important. Some comments on Lumumba as follows:

- What does the fact that Lumumba had an 8-2 record matter? In his fights before McCrory, Lumumba beat former world cruiser champion Alfonso Ratliff, and future world cruiser champion Jeff Lampkin. In total, in his 10 fights before facing McCrory, he faced 5 guys (Tafer, Seys, Evangelista, Ratliff, Lampkin) who either challenged for or won EBU or world titles. That alone is sufficient good form for a world title shot, and far better than many fighters with a glossy "-0" record.

- it is very likely that the Boxrec career record for Lumumba is incomplete. Does anyone really believe that he would have made his pro debut against someone with a 20-fight record with more wins than losses, and then get thrown in with a 30-odd fight former European champion away in France in fight 2, with an 0-1 record at the time? It's vaguely possible, but doesn't stack up for me. Would it really make him more credible if his record was, say, 18-2, with 10 wins against journeyman added at the start?

- he clearly took some fights at heavyweight to get work, giving away 70lbs to James Broad but still flooring him, beating former EBU heavy champion Evangelista, who still got a shot at the EBU title in his next fight, and so on. The arrival of the cruiser division would have been a godsend to him.

So there was 100% nothing wrong with Lumumba as a title challenger, and everything right about it. As for whether McCrory was a deserving challenger, I believe that being Chisanda Mutti alone was sufficient, although I appreciate there may be more debate there. But beating Lumumba puts any debate on McCrory's worthiness to bed.

Based on the cruiserweight rankings at the time and ignoring fighters tied up fighting for other world titles, who was more deserving of the shot than these two?

Great read that.

Thanks. Think I will check the old Youtube footage to see if they announce a record for Lumumba on the TV feed, and will also have a look at old Boxing Newses and Ring Magazine - I am a bit geeky about record queries.

It would be interesting to know. I think there might not be any Ring ratings for the time of the fight (or any fight report) as it wasn't printed for a while - although Lumumba may appear in ratings when the Ring reappeared and they'd often include a boxer's record next to his name. It might give some indication. Before the Ring's disappearance they had reduced their ratings to just the eight 'original' divisions so he definitely wouldn't have appeared then.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:18396

Interesting if correct...

Boxing Prospect wrote:http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:18396

Interesting if correct...

Very! Maybe he did go straight in at the deep end as pro if he really had a 388-6 amateur record...