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What if Ali had beaten Holmes & Berbick - what next?

ade the grenade wrote:What if Ali had beaten Holmes & Berbick - what next?

If Ali had beaten Holmes his next fight would not have been against Trevor Berbick.

ade the grenade wrote:What if Ali had beaten Holmes & Berbick - what next?

What next :?? A possy to look for the flying saucer he arrived in because that would have been achieved by some other creature suffering
from Parkinson Syndrome it would be impossible for a mortal to achieve that.................Even For THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME

It doesn't bear thinking about!

I'm so glad that Holmes & then Berbick beat him, because he would probably still fighting today!

The hangers on & leeches would have squeezed every last ounce out him until he could physically fight no more & Ali's ego was so huge that he would not have been able see the truth.

The reality is.... Ali was finished by the time he fought Young and Norton a third time... those last few years were beyond disgusting and it was the media's fault just as much as it was the promoters for making people believe Ali still had something. At that stage in his career, I have no doubt that the likes of Duance Bobick and John L. Gardner would have beaten him, let alone John Tate and Mike Weaver and Gerrie Coetzee.

HomicideHenry wrote:The reality is.... Ali was finished by the time he fought Young and Norton a third time... those last few years were beyond disgusting and it was the media's fault just as much as it was the promoters for making people believe Ali still had something. At that stage in his career, I have no doubt that the likes of Duance Bobick and John L. Gardner would have beaten him, let alone John Tate and Mike Weaver and Gerrie Coetzee.

I wouldnt say he was finished - he still beat decent fighters in Young, Norton, Shavers and Spinks. Thats not a finished fighter but I understand what you are getting at ; he was way past his best and was surviving on courage and experience.
:TU

evrenb wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:The reality is.... Ali was finished by the time he fought Young and Norton a third time... those last few years were beyond disgusting and it was the media's fault just as much as it was the promoters for making people believe Ali still had something. At that stage in his career, I have no doubt that the likes of Duance Bobick and John L. Gardner would have beaten him, let alone John Tate and Mike Weaver and Gerrie Coetzee.

I wouldnt say he was finished - he still beat decent fighters in Young, Norton, Shavers and Spinks. Thats not a finished fighter but I understand what you are getting at ; he was way past his best and was surviving on courage and experience.
:TU

Following Young and Norton.... I'd say he was done... Shavers almost kayoed him early on, but was still too raw and green to know the difference between Ali clowning and Ali being hurt.... Shavers stamina issues and limited skillset prevented him, also, from securing the win. But from THAT moment on.... I'd argue that any man in the top 15-25 could have defeated Ali at that stage. When you consider Dunn was the last kayo of his career, and he wasnt able to stop Evangelista..... it goes to show just how physically, mentally far off he was going.

Directly to Court, with the band of deceptionists who bought the fights for him.

He may not be the one prosecuted, but he might have to testify as a character witness against those who had engineered the hoax.


No chance on gods earth that Holmes loses to that particular version of Ali.

HomicideHenry wrote:The reality is.... Ali was finished by the time he fought Young and Norton a third time... those last few years were beyond disgusting and it was the media's fault just as much as it was the promoters for making people believe Ali still had something. At that stage in his career, I have no doubt that the likes of Duance Bobick and John L. Gardner would have beaten him, let alone John Tate and Mike Weaver and Gerrie Coetzee.

Spot on; this is why I have the utmost respect for Ferdie Pacheco who left the Ali camp in '77 because he could see that The Champ was literally finished.

He could have stuck around to get his cut of the lucrative paydays that Ali would go on to receive after he departed, but he actually cared about Ali unlike most of the other leeches around him at that time.

He was never likely to beat Holmes but I do wonder where he would have gone had he squeezed a decision against Berbick.
A rematch with Holmes for the WBC title was never gonna happen, so is it likely we'd have seen him have a crack at Mike Weaver's WBA title?

I'm fairly confident he would have boxed an exhumed and reanimated Rocky Marciano in a bout billed as 'Round 14 - Unfinished Business - Revenge in This World or The Next'.

He Probably could have stayed champ until 86, then taking on Tyson and winning a unanimous decision then finally hanging them up, with a wry smile on his face

Syntax Error wrote:It doesn't bear thinking about!

I'm so glad that Holmes & then Berbick beat him, because he would probably still fighting today!

The hangers on & leeches would have squeezed every last ounce out him until he could physically fight no more & Ali's ego was so huge that he would not have been able see the truth.

We all know at the latest he should have retired after frazier 3.

But......he did make ten defences after that inc norton 3 ,young,lyle,shavers...people can argue about pts but way i see it he won all 4....

But the decline from that to spinks 1 was huge ,yes he did come back,in shape and dance 15 rounds to avenge it...but at the end u could see the terrible effects of parkinsons all over his face ...the ali of 1977 would have finished spinks in 4 or 5...even b4 holmes and berbick ,he looked horrific v lyle alzado

It all makes the thread pointless

Unless its twisted as.....lets say ali didnt get parkinson ....and maintained his 76-77 level for another 7 years right up to 1984 and his 42nd birthday, that ali saw the big bucks dking was offering, got rid of the hangers on, hired a nutritionist, adapted his style,stopped doing the rope a dope ....what than...assuming he met holmes in 80 still the same guy who beat norton and shavers, id take him to beat holmes....than itd be another easy run....berbick,tate,weaver,tillis, coetzee.....marvis!.than .hed beat cooney ....

Or if he had turned out to be a hopkins and foreman mk 2 before hopkins and foreman 2 he could have gone on right up to 1989!

Obviously tyson would be the elephant in the room for ali.

To avoid a 2nd holmes fight in 1983 ali would give up his wba and wbc belts and take on the ibf title. Holmes would be the wba champ and witherspoon wbc. In 1986 tyson would destroy spoon than crush holmes in 87....in the meanwhile ali would have been causing controversy by hanging on to his belt by defending against weaker foes.ko magazine would already have ali down at no 5 despite his linear title.....in 84/85/86 the active ali would go on a world tour to avoid questions about holmes and witherspoon and beat stefan tangstad, anders ecklund,david bey,bonecrusher, greg page,mike williams,mitch green .....by late 87 he would still be champ even as tyson had cleaned up the other belts .in 88 he would make 2 defences against johhny du plooy and horace notice as a clamour grew for ali to retire or fight tyson and holyfield......instead ali would fight the 16-0 comebacking foreman in summer 89 and foreman would knock him out but ali would go down as the greatest fighter ever.......foreman would crush tyson in 90 .....than go down fighting to holy in 92