BoxRec

Here's a perfect example of why it's better to sign with Al Haymon than Bob Arum.

Talented middleweight Sergiy Derevyanchenko (6-0) managed by Al Haymon is fighting on Showtime this coming Saturday. This is excellent exposure for an up-and-coming boxer.

Now Konstantin Ponomarev (28-0) and Oleksandr Gvozdyk (7-0) promoted by Bob Arum are both scheduled to fight on an undercard of a Top Rank card Nov 20. There are two other fights on the card being televised by TruTV.

Both are as talented (if not more so) than Derevyanchenko, but both are fighting OFF TV, even though Ponomarev is facing a better opponent (Rico Mueller 19-1-1 who has never been stopped) than Derevyanchenko.

Freedom2013 wrote:Here's a perfect example of why it's better to sign with Al Haymon than Bob Arum.

Talented middleweight Sergiy Derevyanchenko (6-0) managed by Al Haymon is fighting on Showtime this coming Saturday. This is excellent exposure for an up-and-coming boxer.

Now Konstantin Ponomarev (28-0) and Oleksandr Gvozdyk (7-0) promoted by Bob Arum are both scheduled to fight on an undercard of a Top Rank card Nov 20. There are two other fights on the card being televised by TruTV.

Both are as talented (if not more so) than Derevyanchenko, but both are fighting OFF TV, even though Ponomarev is facing a better opponent (Rico Mueller 19-1-1 who has never been stopped) than Derevyanchenko.

Lomachenko headlined a card and a title shot in his 2ND fight under Arum. Headlined and beat Russell in his third fight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're saying.

IKSRTFO wrote:Lomachenko headlined a card and a title shot in his 2ND fight under Arum. Headlined and beat Russell in his third fight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're saying.

And hasn't had a meaningful fight since then.

Freedom2013 wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:Lomachenko headlined a card and a title shot in his 2ND fight under Arum. Headlined and beat Russell in his third fight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're saying.

And hasn't had a meaningful fight since then.

He beat Russell just last year.

TR has it's perks when matching their fighters but let's not act like Haymon always makes the best matchups for his fighters. Berto was fed bums for years before we learned who he really was.

Have you noticed boxers who have been promoted by the exploitative Arum end up at odds with him (Rigo, M Garcia, Floyd, etc)

While boxers managed by Haymon have nothing but good to say about him.

It's obvious who is better for the boxers' careers.

Freedom2013 wrote:Have you noticed boxers who have been promoted by the exploitative Arum end up at odds with him (Rigo, M Garcia, Floyd, etc)

While boxers managed by Haymon have nothing but good to say about him.

It's obvious who is better for the boxers' careers.

Though I think both are extremely shady.This sums up the biggest difference.
Haymon's fighters for the most part love him.That has to mean something.

Why it's better to sign with anyone but Haymon:

You can compete in the sport if boxing and not exclusively to the laughable, low quality production: PBC.

Freedom2013 wrote:Have you noticed boxers who have been promoted by the exploitative Arum end up at odds with him (Rigo, M Garcia, Floyd, etc)

While boxers managed by Haymon have nothing but good to say about him.

It's obvious who is better for the boxers' careers.

Sure.. if I was getting 2 million to beat up a no hoper, I'd have good things to say about my promoter too.

Freedom2013 wrote: Have you noticed boxers who have been promoted by the exploitative Arum end up at odds with him (Rigo, M Garcia, Floyd, etc)

floyd left top rank like 10 years ago. haymon wasn't even in the sport yet, was he?
haymon is a manager and doesn't technically promote shows. he gets his managed
fighters on cards staged by other promoters, and who has been making decisions
for quillin recently? haymon is definitely a player, but PBC is in its infancy and haymon
doesn't have the track record to compare to TR and GB as promoters.

I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

$175m, from what i heard.

Kingfield wrote:

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

$175m, from what i heard.

I don't believe that at all.
I am sure you did read it so I am not calling you a liar.
Just the source you got it from is full of crap

tiny_acres wrote:

Kingfield wrote:

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

$175m, from what i heard.

I don't believe that at all.
I am sure you did read it so I am not calling you a liar.
Just the source you got it from is full of crap

I was unsure too. The source is someone who has had guys fight on Haymons shows regularly. They have been paid a lot lot lot more than any other shows or for any other fights. Haymon is definitely overpaying.

i guess we'll never know though, just passing on info i've been told.

Kingfield wrote:

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

$175m, from what i heard.

Only source I can find that says Haymon is losing money is Arum's lawsuit...which puts the number at 200 million.

Let's all take Mr. "I was lying yesterday but today I am telling the truth" as a teller of gospel truth, Shall we?

But, whether it is 175m or 200, why is the PBC still on?

Basically, such an absurd number is proof it is a lie.

Guy burns thru half his war chest in half a year and they are still doing fights?

Nah.

Don't know anyone ever lost that amount of money and kept their job.

Kingfield wrote:

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

$175m, from what i heard.

PBC is a shockingly shite production and will go bust, the sooner, the better.

tiny_acres wrote:

Kingfield wrote:

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

$175m, from what i heard.

I don't believe that at all.
I am sure you did read it so I am not calling you a liar.
Just the source you got it from is full of crap

He is paying the TV companies for the air time. They aren't paying him. He is paying the boxers. It was all part of his business plan. He's no dummy and he has backers. I'm am sure they all knew going in it was a losing proposition in the beginning. My question is how long are they willing to allow that and not expect a return on their investment. Maybe Haymon is like Bernie Madorf or whatever his name was and sold the investors a bill of goods. Does the PBC ever turn a profit?

The thing is how will it ever turn a profit? When it first started i watched every card regardless of how bad it was or what channel it was on. After awhile there are just so many bad cards that you stop watching. At this point I don't even record them unless it is someone I really want to see. I just don't have the time to go back and watch his mediocre cards and I'm sure not giving up a friday or saturday night to watch them like I might a good HBO card.

To me, Haymon should have been making great fight after great fight to really build interest and get some serious ratings. Once the TV stations actually buy in, then he could have started putting on the garbage fights. I just don't the networks wanting to actually pay for his fights based on the ratings they have been getting.

Overall though, signing with haymon allows you to make some really good money without much risk. However, I don't see him ever developing any stars unless there are some major changes. All of the top guys are on HBO and without being able to fight them, he has to start putting his top guys together. For whatever reason, he abolutely refuses to do that. So instead of having a couple of stars, he has hundreds of mediocre dudes that just aren't going to bring in real money.

What no one is mentioning is the fact that every single dtop of advertising revenue from every fight is PBC money.

There is a real chance they haven't lost anything.

Anyone have any idea what a prime time national advertising spot goes for?

Figure that out, watch a PBC broacast, count the commercials, figure out purses and other costs- and then come back and tell me how much they lost.

As long as this Hayman keeps putting on quality fights like Rodriguez-Seals, Caleb Plant, Sammy Vasquez Jr. and that Wilder.... I'm a very happy camper. Keep the free stuff coming,
It's good for the sport. Theses young kids ain't gonna watch no boxing if they don't see it on free tv.

koolkc107 wrote:What no one is mentioning is the fact that every single dtop of advertising revenue from every fight is PBC money.

There is a real chance they haven't lost anything.

Anyone have any idea what a prime time national advertising spot goes for?

Figure that out, watch a PBC broacast, count the commercials, figure out purses and other costs- and then come back and tell me how much they lost.

I'll admit I have no idea what the advertising money would be, though several of advert Lots have been filled by mini fighter profiles, or adverts for shows on that channel. The ratings aren't great, and haven't been getting any better, so it would be interesting if he can demand the big bucks

iamasadlittleboy wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:What no one is mentioning is the fact that every single dtop of advertising revenue from every fight is PBC money.

There is a real chance they haven't lost anything.

Anyone have any idea what a prime time national advertising spot goes for?

Figure that out, watch a PBC broacast, count the commercials, figure out purses and other costs- and then come back and tell me how much they lost.

I'll admit I have no idea what the advertising money would be, though several of advert Lots have been filled by mini fighter profiles, or adverts for shows on that channel. The ratings aren't great, and haven't been getting any better, so it would be interesting if he can demand the big bucks

They are getting ad money and sponsorship money.

And you can also bet they are doing things as similar as they can to how Mayweather does his fights in terms of concessions, gate and etc.

If they were losing buckets of money, believe we would have heard concrete numbers by now, not just some allegation in one line of a lawsuit.

Again, if Haymon is losing 175m in 6 months, why file court papers to stop him?

Freedom2013 wrote:Here's a perfect example of why it's better to sign with Al Haymon than Bob Arum.

Talented middleweight Sergiy Derevyanchenko (6-0) managed by Al Haymon is fighting on Showtime this coming Saturday. This is excellent exposure for an up-and-coming boxer.

Now Konstantin Ponomarev (28-0) and Oleksandr Gvozdyk (7-0) promoted by Bob Arum are both scheduled to fight on an undercard of a Top Rank card Nov 20. There are two other fights on the card being televised by TruTV.

Both are as talented (if not more so) than Derevyanchenko, but both are fighting OFF TV, even though Ponomarev is facing a better opponent (Rico Mueller 19-1-1 who has never been stopped) than Derevyanchenko.

It's really a mixed bag, Tim Bradley has made tons of money with Arum, and Paulie Malignaggi while with Haymon has taken a ton of punishment from Porter and Garcia so it is a mixed bag..

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

Saw one figure suggesting that they had spent $314m of a $528m budget. No idea whether it's true but it wouldn't surprise me.

expe wrote:

JMac wrote:I wonder how much longer Haymon can go on losing money. I know he has backers but at what point, do they demand a return on their investment? I can't remember the figure I heard he has lost so far but it was high.

Saw one figure suggesting that they had spent $314m of a $528m budget. No idea whether it's true but it wouldn't surprise me.

Link?

I can't stand the two of them but obviously most of the boxers want to be under Haymon. Boxers get paid more money for easier work. It's a no brainer until the business model is leaned on to finally make the PBC investors some money. Haymon knew he's lose a lot of money in this model in the first year but the second year is where he needs to make the money so we better see some better fights and cards. It will be interesting to see what boxers do if Haymon starts to struggle.

It does appear that Haymon cares more for his fighters than Arum. For an example of this, look at how Haymon is handling the Prichard Colon situation (still in coma from PBC event a few weeks ago). Arum would have let Colon rot in whatever hospital he was in. Haymon instead got Colon moved from hospital to one of the best Rehab Hospitals in America. I dislike what he's done to boxing in the last year but Haymon is definitely showing more care for these boxers. I can't argue with that.