BoxRec

Example: Is Chagaev an A Grade fighter?

Hard to know if we can't agree on what an A Grade fighter is.

What is an A Grade fighter?

How many A Grade fighters are there in each weight division?

Is it a set number? If not, what is the criteria for being an A Grade fighter?

What is the criteria for a B Grade fighter?

What is the criteria for a C Grade fighter?

I've never seen definitive answers for the above questions.

All suggestions welcome...

Have you tried using your brain? Did you suspect there is official criteria?

In most cases, it is just a matter of opinion.

ikorolev wrote:Have you tried using your brain? Did you suspect there is official criteria?

In most cases, it is just a matter of opinion.

That exactly what I thought and why I was seeking confirmation on it. I have been pushing that very argument elsewhere

It's stupid.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's stupid.

The grading system?

Yes, I could not agree more

Forget all that its just as follows-
Elite
World class
contender
gatekeeper
Domestic
prospect
journeyman

littlepug wrote:Forget all that its just as follows-
Elite
World class
contender
gatekeeper
Domestic
prospect
journeyman

Much more user-friendly IMO

(but I would perhaps have journeyman above prospect)

Redback Rasta wrote:

littlepug wrote:Forget all that its just as follows-
Elite
World class
contender
gatekeeper
Domestic
prospect
journeyman

Much more user-friendly IMO

(but I would perhaps have journeyman above prospect)

Yeah actually thought that after posting

Officially there are 4 levels:

A level - boxer with a reasonable chance of being the number one in his division
B level - could steal a loose world championship belt if noone is watching
C level - no title hopes but can distinguish left hook from a hole in the ground
D level - aka bum

Tarkus wrote:Officially there are 4 levels:

A level - boxer with a reasonable chance of being the number one in his division
B level - could steal a loose world championship belt if noone is watching
C level - no title hopes but can distinguish left hook from a hole in the ground
D level - aka bum

I appreciate your input mate. But when you say 'officially", where?

Who made that particular version of the A to D you posted official, and why is it that even keen boxing fans like those posting in this thread don't know, or perhaps, necessarily agree with the version you have posted?

Redback Rasta wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's stupid.

The grading system?

Yes, I could not agree more

Absolutely, someone like gatti who could never be competitive with the absolute best will get called a c when he destroys over 99% of the fighters in the world.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Redback Rasta wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's stupid.

The grading system?

Yes, I could not agree more

Absolutely, someone like gatti who could never be competitive with the absolute best will get called a c when he destroys over 99% of the fighters in the world.

Though you obviously disagree with the system, do you understand how it works? I sure don't.

Suppose it's sort of useful for the difference in abilities between fighters who are operating roughly at the same level, if that makes sense. So a few years ago, for example, at middleweight Sergio Martinez had the WBC belt whilst Daniel Geale had the IBF title. I think most would look at Sergio as an A level fighter whereas Geale was a B level fighter, despite technically fighting at the same level as Martinez. I don't know why but Geale is always the guy that jumps out at me when I think of the term "B level fighter".

It goes back to the Ring Magazine year end rankings way way back. There were actual levels attached to hundreds of fighters starting with a Group 1 then Group 2 category. Then there was A, B, C, D level fighters. Generally the Top 15 or so were all Group 1 and 2's and everyone else was slotted below in a lettered rating category. Eventually the Group 1 and 2 fighters were just lumped in with the A level and they were all called A level.

Example Heavies 1971

Group 1

Frazier
Ali

Group 2
Foreman, Bonavena, Quarry, Mac Foster, Cooper, Chuvalo, Liston, Urtain, J.L Garcia, Patterson, Ellis, Kirkman

A level
Henry Clark etc.

B level
Jack O'Halloran etc.

C Level
Bill McMurray etc.

D level
Record Padders

Redback Rasta wrote:

littlepug wrote:Forget all that its just as follows-
Elite
World class
contender
gatekeeper
Domestic
prospect
journeyman

Much more user-friendly IMO

(but I would perhaps have journeyman above prospect)

and i would have domestic on a completely different set of criteria completely.
this list is who the boxer is competitive with, but the stage you fight on more often than
not is what defines you, not necessarily the specific fighters you are competitive against.
for example there are small local venues that have regular cards, like armory's, hotel
ballrooms and local function halls that normally host weddings, bar mitzvahs, quinceaneras,
and the like, maybe a few hundred up to a thousand seats. possibly local cable access channel
or local sports station might air it on tape delay but usually not. guys at this level might only
get $100 or so per scheduled round and would be mostly locals refered to as "club fighters".
this would be the lowest level of pro competition. if you succeed at this level, maybe you could
headline those cards and maybe be matched on a higher level card with one of the other good
club level fighters in your area, maybe even for a state or area title. above that regional and
national cards in casinos or bigger arenas built for bigger events on cable tv, maybe even fox
sports or espn2 or the regional channels. above that continental and international level, which
generally means the same thing depending on where the opponent is from. these guys might
be on undercards of title fights or headline their own tv cards if they can sell thousands of seats
on their own. no matter what your real skill level, you can contend for titles even if you don't
deserve it if you can fill a civic center arena with your own fans and put on a flashy show.
that is generally how the levels work in boxing, by the stage you compete on. i hear the term
"b-level" so often used to slight world level boxers after their first loss, and the term means nothing
except the guy saying it is trying to disparage the boxer

Redback Rasta wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Officially there are 4 levels:

A level - boxer with a reasonable chance of being the number one in his division
B level - could steal a loose world championship belt if noone is watching
C level - no title hopes but can distinguish left hook from a hole in the ground
D level - aka bum

I appreciate your input mate. But when you say 'officially", where?

Who made that particular version of the A to D you posted official, and why is it that even keen boxing fans like those posting in this thread don't know, or perhaps, necessarily agree with the version you have posted?

That was a joke.

ikorolev wrote:

Redback Rasta wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Officially there are 4 levels:

A level - boxer with a reasonable chance of being the number one in his division
B level - could steal a loose world championship belt if noone is watching
C level - no title hopes but can distinguish left hook from a hole in the ground
D level - aka bum

I appreciate your input mate. But when you say 'officially", where?

Who made that particular version of the A to D you posted official, and why is it that even keen boxing fans like those posting in this thread don't know, or perhaps, necessarily agree with the version you have posted?

That was a joke.

I sure rate the alphabet grading system a joke. No two people I've come across are even on the same page with their understanding of it.

Redback Rasta wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Redback Rasta wrote:
The grading system?

Yes, I could not agree more

Absolutely, someone like gatti who could never be competitive with the absolute best will get called a c when he destroys over 99% of the fighters in the world.

Though you obviously disagree with the system, do you understand how it works? I sure don't.

I understand it, it's stupid and used by those with little to offer.

It is not stupid, it is just pretty arbitrary and opinion based. Sometimes, it is convenient to describe difference in fighters' levels, for example "elite level Ward fought B- level Rodriguez and C level Smith". However, different people may assign Rodriguez and Smith different marks.

ikorolev wrote:Have you tried using your brain? Did you suspect there is official criteria?

In most cases, it is just a matter of opinion.

Don't be set back so quick, guy! Ring used to run the ratings yearly. A B C D E maybe it was(?)

littlepug wrote:Forget all that its just as follows-
Elite
World class
contender
gatekeeper
Domestic
prospect
journeyman

"Thank you!"

ElJefe wrote:Suppose it's sort of useful for the difference in abilities between fighters who are operating roughly at the same level, if that makes sense. So a few years ago, for example, at middleweight Sergio Martinez had the WBC belt whilst Daniel Geale had the IBF title. I think most would look at Sergio as an A level fighter whereas Geale was a B level fighter, despite technically fighting at the same level as Martinez. I don't know why but Geale is always the guy that jumps out at me when I think of the term "B level fighter".

I'm amazed at your boxing acume!

Redback Rasta wrote:Example: Is Chagaev an A Grade fighter?

Hard to know if we can't agree on what an A Grade fighter is.

What is an A Grade fighter?

How many A Grade fighters are there in each weight division?

Is it a set number? If not, what is the criteria for being an A Grade fighter?

What is the criteria for a B Grade fighter?

What is the criteria for a C Grade fighter?

I've never seen definitive answers for the above questions.

All suggestions welcome...

youve never seen a definitive answer because there isnt one. Cant even remember last time i heard anyone define fighters quality using the alphabet.

If anyone has whats a K level fighter please?

ikorolev wrote:It is not stupid, it is just pretty arbitrary and opinion based. Sometimes, it is convenient to describe difference in fighters' levels, for example "elite level Ward fought B- level Rodriguez and C level Smith". However, different people may assign Rodriguez and Smith different marks.

That's a perfect example of how stupid it is. Well done.

The terms "b level" and "c level" only really get used to knock opponents of elite fighters. For example Floyd/Maidana Pac/Rios... Maidana and Rios are a few levels down from Floyd or Pac and hence you end up describing world champion boxers as "c level".