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Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 18:50
by handsofstone
Martin Murray on 4 has to be up there,i didnt score the Sturm fight but i felt Felix might have nicked it,wont argue with the draw but in close fights sometimes you can surprised yourself when you tally up your cards so who knows maybe i couldve had Murray nicking it,i thought he beat Martinez by a few rounds,obviously Golovkin stopped him and then i thought Abraham was a deserved winner
Anyone with 5 or more failed attempts from these shores??
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 22:00
by Stuarty
Good question. Cant think of anyone else with 4. Off the top of my head Bruno, Graham, Macklin, Mitchell and Groves all have three I think?
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 22:21
by tijuana1
Henry Wharton had 3. Great question as mentioned above
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 13 Jan 2016, 23:10
by davie
I googled it and found the following, but none from these shores surpass 4 that I know of
Orlando Salido - 6 Failed Attempts
vs. Martinez September 2015 (WBO)
vs. Martinez April 2015 (WBO)
vs. Gamboa 2010 (WBA)
vs. Cruz 2008 (IBF)
vs. Guerrero 2006 (IBF)
vs. Marquez 2004 (WBA, IBF)
Zab Judah - 6 Failed Attempts
vs. Garcia 2013 (WBC, WBA)
vs. Khan 2011 (WBA)
vs. Clottey 2008 (IBF)
vs. Mayweather 2006 (IBF)
vs. Spinks 2004 (WBC, WBA, IBF)
vs. Tszyu 2001 (WBC, WBA)
Bernard Hopkins - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. Sergey Kovalev 2014 (WBO)
vs. Jean Pascal 2010 (WBC)
vs. Jermain Taylor 2005 (WBC, WBA, WBO)
vs. Segundo Mercado 1994 (IBF)
vs. Roy Jones Jr 1993 (IBF)
Rocky Juarez - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. Chris John September 2009 (WBA)
vs. Chris John February 2009 (WBA)
vs. Marquez 2007 (WBC)
vs. Barrera September 2006 (WBA)
vs. Barrera May 2006 (WBA)
Yaqui Lopez - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. De Leon 1983 (WBC)
vs. Muhammad 1980 (WBC)
vs. Galindez 1978 (WBA)
vs. Galindez 1977 (WBA)
vs. Conteh 1976 (WBC)
Some of the other ones in this thread had less:
Juan Manuel Marquez - 4 Failed Attempts
Frank Bruno - 4 Failed Attempts
Martin Murray - 3 Failed Attempts
Gerrie Coetzee - 3 Failed Attempts
Matthew Macklin - 2 Failed Attempts
I don't think that's right though, as Bruno won on his 4th attempt
Macklin is listed as challenging for the WBC diamond belts vs Martinez, which is interesting.
And Murray we know is on 4 and I would be shocked if he can't work his way into a position to have another failed attempt.
of the international names above, we know Salido, Judah and Hopkins all held titles between those failed attempts
Rocky Juarez and Yaqui Lopez however just fell on their face every time they tried and are the only men I know of to beat Murray for successive failed attempts
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 05:34
by olij999
In challenges (so ignoring wins and losses in title defences), Betulio Gonzalez lost to Oba, drew with Salavarria, beat Batoto, beat Canto, lost to Canto, lost to Canto again, beat Espadas, lost to Herrera, lost to Laciar. So 6 unsuccessful challenges there.
Jersey Joe Walcott lost to Louis twice, Charles twice, then beat Charles, then lost to Marciano (rematch was a challenge), so 5 unsuccessful ones there.
Marcos Villasana – four failed attempts before beating Paul Hodkinson.
German Torres – four failed attempts before beating Soon-Jung Kang
Mario Martinez also on four, against Chavez, Nelson twice, and Thobela (hard paper round, that).
Can't think of any British ones, though, apart from those mentioned. Three for Colin Jones and Howard Winstone too.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 06:56
by littlepug
think tony sibson had 3 as well
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 08:17
by J
BILLY SCHWER?
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 08:26
by reggaereggae
davie wrote:I googled it and found the following, but none from these shores surpass 4 that I know of
Orlando Salido - 6 Failed Attempts
vs. Martinez September 2015 (WBO)
vs. Martinez April 2015 (WBO)
vs. Gamboa 2010 (WBA)
vs. Cruz 2008 (IBF)
vs. Guerrero 2006 (IBF)
vs. Marquez 2004 (WBA, IBF)
Zab Judah - 6 Failed Attempts
vs. Garcia 2013 (WBC, WBA)
vs. Khan 2011 (WBA)
vs. Clottey 2008 (IBF)
vs. Mayweather 2006 (IBF)
vs. Spinks 2004 (WBC, WBA, IBF)
vs. Tszyu 2001 (WBC, WBA)
Bernard Hopkins - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. Sergey Kovalev 2014 (WBO)
vs. Jean Pascal 2010 (WBC)
vs. Jermain Taylor 2005 (WBC, WBA, WBO)
vs. Segundo Mercado 1994 (IBF)
vs. Roy Jones Jr 1993 (IBF)
Rocky Juarez - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. Chris John September 2009 (WBA)
vs. Chris John February 2009 (WBA)
vs. Marquez 2007 (WBC)
vs. Barrera September 2006 (WBA)
vs. Barrera May 2006 (WBA)
Yaqui Lopez - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. De Leon 1983 (WBC)
vs. Muhammad 1980 (WBC)
vs. Galindez 1978 (WBA)
vs. Galindez 1977 (WBA)
vs. Conteh 1976 (WBC)
Some of the other ones in this thread had less:
Juan Manuel Marquez - 4 Failed Attempts
Frank Bruno - 4 Failed Attempts
Martin Murray - 3 Failed Attempts
Gerrie Coetzee - 3 Failed Attempts
Matthew Macklin - 2 Failed Attempts
I don't think that's right though, as Bruno won on his 4th attempt
Macklin is listed as challenging for the WBC diamond belts vs Martinez, which is interesting.
And Murray we know is on 4 and I would be shocked if he can't work his way into a position to have another failed attempt.
of the international names above, we know Salido, Judah and Hopkins all held titles between those failed attempts
Rocky Juarez and Yaqui Lopez however just fell on their face every time they tried and are the only men I know of to beat Murray for successive failed attempts
Jersey Joe Walcott had 5
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 08:33
by ThereByTheGrace
Think Michael Brodie had 4 failed attempts
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 09:44
by Tomasino
davie wrote:I googled it and found the following, but none from these shores surpass 4 that I know of
Orlando Salido - 6 Failed Attempts
vs. Martinez September 2015 (WBO)
vs. Martinez April 2015 (WBO)
vs. Gamboa 2010 (WBA)
vs. Cruz 2008 (IBF)
vs. Guerrero 2006 (IBF)
vs. Marquez 2004 (WBA, IBF)
Zab Judah - 6 Failed Attempts
vs. Garcia 2013 (WBC, WBA)
vs. Khan 2011 (WBA)
vs. Clottey 2008 (IBF)
vs. Mayweather 2006 (IBF)
vs. Spinks 2004 (WBC, WBA, IBF)
vs. Tszyu 2001 (WBC, WBA)
Bernard Hopkins - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. Sergey Kovalev 2014 (WBO)
vs. Jean Pascal 2010 (WBC)
vs. Jermain Taylor 2005 (WBC, WBA, WBO)
vs. Segundo Mercado 1994 (IBF)
vs. Roy Jones Jr 1993 (IBF)
Rocky Juarez - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. Chris John September 2009 (WBA)
vs. Chris John February 2009 (WBA)
vs. Marquez 2007 (WBC)
vs. Barrera September 2006 (WBA)
vs. Barrera May 2006 (WBA)
Yaqui Lopez - 5 Failed Attempts
vs. De Leon 1983 (WBC)
vs. Muhammad 1980 (WBC)
vs. Galindez 1978 (WBA)
vs. Galindez 1977 (WBA)
vs. Conteh 1976 (WBC)
Some of the other ones in this thread had less:
Juan Manuel Marquez - 4 Failed Attempts
Frank Bruno - 4 Failed Attempts
Martin Murray - 3 Failed Attempts
Gerrie Coetzee - 3 Failed Attempts
Matthew Macklin - 2 Failed Attempts
I don't think that's right though, as Bruno won on his 4th attempt
Macklin is listed as challenging for the WBC diamond belts vs Martinez, which is interesting.
And Murray we know is on 4 and I would be shocked if he can't work his way into a position to have another failed attempt.
of the international names above, we know Salido, Judah and Hopkins all held titles between those failed attempts
Rocky Juarez and Yaqui Lopez however just fell on their face every time they tried and are the only men I know of to beat Murray for successive failed attempts
I'd hardly describe Yaqui Lopez as falling on his face in title fights. He was an excellent fighter and unlucky to be around at an immensely tough time to win a world title at his weight. His losing efforts were legendary.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:02
by olij999
ThereByTheGrace wrote:Think Michael Brodie had 4 failed attempts
That is a great answer - I had completely forgotten about the Scott Harrison fight and would have sworn he only had 3 tries.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:08
by olij999
OK - I have an arguable 5 unsuccessful challenges for a British fighter, namely Chris Eubank:
1. Nigel Benn II - was a challenge for the WBC title as well as a defence of Eubank's WBO title. That's the arguable one.
2. Steve Collins II
3. Joe Calzaghe (for vacant title).
4. Carl Thompson I
5. Carl Thompson II
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:12
by olij999
PS - on a sort-of-related note, which British fighter lost challenges for Area, British, Commonwealth, European and world titles (one of the 4 major sanctioning bodies for the world title), and never won a major title?
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:24
by Stuarty
ThereByTheGrace wrote:Think Michael Brodie had 4 failed attempts
Good shout! Completely forgot about Brodie. 1st fight with Chi was a cracker!
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:24
by orbtastic
Fairly sure Ruiz had four or five cracks, mostly vacant, that he lost.
Golota had four.
Ruben Castillo had four, I think.
Juan LaPorte surely has to have the toughest and longest resume for title attempts - Sanchez, Pedroza, Chavez, Molina, Nelson, Murray, Padillia. Not to mention sandwiched between those, non title affairs against McGuigan, Costello, Tsyzu, Lopez. Lockridge and title defences against Gomez & Castillo.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:28
by forestbox
olij999 wrote:PS - on a sort-of-related note, which British fighter lost challenges for Area, British, Commonwealth, European and world titles (one of the 4 major sanctioning bodies for the world title), and never won a major title?
Thought it was Dennis Andries but he only failed at British,euro and world.great question.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:28
by orbtastic
olij999 wrote:PS - on a sort-of-related note, which British fighter lost challenges for Area, British, Commonwealth, European and world titles (one of the 4 major sanctioning bodies for the world title), and never won a major title?
I would have guessed at Howard Clarke but looking at his record, I am surprised to see he didn't even have an area title fight. I thought he'd had at least that.
Paul Wesley has failed area and British title tilts and has the distinction of KO wins over Paul Jones and Neville Brown.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:29
by Stuarty
olij999 wrote:OK - I have an arguable 5 unsuccessful challenges for a British fighter, namely Chris Eubank:
1. Nigel Benn II - was a challenge for the WBC title as well as a defence of Eubank's WBO title. That's the arguable one.
2. Steve Collins II
3. Joe Calzaghe (for vacant title).
4. Carl Thompson I
5. Carl Thompson II
Good stats! Would never have thought of that! What title was the Thompson fights for though? Was it not the IBO? I don't really regard that as a proper world title tbh. Depends who you fight I suppose. Klitschko held it for a long time and I'm sure Hatton relieved Tszyu of the same title in their fight?
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:33
by orbtastic
Crawford Ashley? Lost to Nunn and Hill at world level, didn't beat Rocchiagiani and Davis at European. Lost Euro to Klemetsen, lost to Woods for Commonwealth & British. Beat Thompson for Central area, I think.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:34
by forestbox
forestbox wrote:olij999 wrote:PS - on a sort-of-related note, which British fighter lost challenges for Area, British, Commonwealth, European and world titles (one of the 4 major sanctioning bodies for the world title), and never won a major title?
Thought it was Dennis Andries but he only failed at British,euro and world.great question.
Juilus Francis did all expect for world.lost to audley for wbf that don't count
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:38
by orbtastic
Tom Collins or Noel Magee? Not sure Magee got a world title shot off the top of my head.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:42
by olij999
All good guesses, but the critical bit is that the person never actually won a professional title at any point, just challenged for them all.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:43
by Black Sam Bellamy
How many Kevin Mitchell ?
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:43
by olij999
Stuarty30 wrote:olij999 wrote:OK - I have an arguable 5 unsuccessful challenges for a British fighter, namely Chris Eubank:
1. Nigel Benn II - was a challenge for the WBC title as well as a defence of Eubank's WBO title. That's the arguable one.
2. Steve Collins II
3. Joe Calzaghe (for vacant title).
4. Carl Thompson I
5. Carl Thompson II
Good stats! Would never have thought of that! What title was the Thompson fights for though? Was it not the IBO? I don't really regard that as a proper world title tbh. Depends who you fight I suppose. Klitschko held it for a long time and I'm sure Hatton relieved Tszyu of the same title in their fight?
Thompson fights were both WBO Cruiserweight.
Re: Which Brit has had most failed attempts at a world title?
Posted: 14 Jan 2016, 10:45
by olij999
Black Sam Bellamy wrote:How many Kevin Mitchell ?
Four, of which two were interims.