BoxRec

my pick is tony tubbs he was pretty slick against jimmy young ..greg page and even loosing to spoon ..he didnt loose huge ...and even way past his prime tubbs gave bowe fits and sum beleive tubbs beat bowe ...i think tubbs to slick and a very big man with very quick hands and a great page ,,,and he would be able to push shavers back as did stander ..tony tubbs via dec over earnie shavers

I think Shavers would have totally annihilated Tubbs and ripped him a new one!

Rexob wrote:I think Shavers would have totally annihilated Tubbs and ripped him a new one!

Agree. Tubbs could capitulate against a big puncher. They don't come much bigger than Earnie. KO1 or KO2. Though I am a big fan of Tubbs. He could box beautifully.

thanks for posting anybody else ?

Shavers in 2

I am the biggest Shavers fan ever. One of my all time favorite fighters.
This could go either way.
Tubbs could box from the outside and use his reach advantage and cruise to a boring decision.

Or the one I prefer is Shavers comes out and knocks him out in the first 2 rounds

Tubbs was inconsistent so I choose Shavers

Nile4000 wrote:Tubbs could beat Shavers easily if he had the chin that Page and Witherspoon had. But he doesn't, so after a couple of uncomfortable rounds, Shavers coldcocks Tate in the third.

Tubbs you mean?

tubbs was a good boxer but shavers would of got him out of there via devastating ko

I'd fancy Shavers by KO. Needed a great chin to beat him.

evrenb wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:Tubbs could beat Shavers easily if he had the chin that Page and Witherspoon had. But he doesn't, so after a couple of uncomfortable rounds, Shavers coldcocks Tate in the third.

Tubbs you mean?

Yeah, sorrry.

Tubbs had a pretty good chin. However, this is Earnier Shavers. If (and probably when) he got clocked by Shavers, he would be in major trouble. He didn't hit hard enough to bother Shavers. There is a good chance that Tubbs would do well for several rounds, but eventually Shavers would probably take him out.

The only realistic sceanrio for Tubbs to win would be to get off to a good start and pile up the points. Eventually Shavers is going to hurt him and Tubbs would have to weather the storm. Then hope that Shavers gets tired in the late rounds and Tubbs does well enough in the in the late rounds to pull out the decision.

Would have to pick Shavers.

Tubbs beat an Over-the-Hill Jimmy Young and an Inconsistent Page. Two ways to beat Shaver was to Catch him hard and Early or Oubox him over the Distance. Tuggs Didnt have the Power to blow him out or keep him off long enough to take him into deep water. Shavers by KO.

The pre-Ali fight Shavers was a reckless slugger who would use his jab primarily to set up home run right crosses or set up a devastating uppercut (Ellis). His defense was leaky and he would burn through his gas tank throwing constant haymakers and bombs--making him easy pickings for guys with good endurance and good stamina.

The shavers of the Williams/Ali/Holmes fights would be a nightmare for almost any heavyweight in history. His cardio was excellent, picked his shots carefully, had good timing, respectable handspeed, and had late round k.o power as seen in the Roy Williams and Holmes fights.

Both versions of Shavers had a very underrated jab (he won a fight using nothing but a jab when he injured is hand) and was able to get Ali and Holmes' attention with it, even exchanging jabs with them and looking decent.

Tubbs had underrated footwork, defense, and could easily go the distance without tiring. He was well rounded but didn't excel in any one area compared to his peers. He could also be inconsistent and pig out on food. He didn't have the greatest chin in the world and was knocked out early before.

Either version of shavers has a very good chance of winning if he goes to the body early--especially if Tubbs shows up fat and lethargic. A serious motivated Tubbs might be able to sucker shavers into playing a chess match and stealing the decision. However 7 times out of 10 I expect Shavers to ignore Tubbs punches and just go for the knockout (and get it). Even it does go the distance I expect Shavers to drop Tubbs at some point and stay busy enough to potentially win the decision. It's almost a mismatch, but that's mostly Tubbs fault for being inconsistent and lazy and losing most of his biggest fights. His skill is underrated though, he looked good against Bowe even though he was washed up.

- Reason the forum is dying out is because it's become of a Stepford Wives type circling of cloned drones as evidenced by this topic.

Tubbs is an accomplished fighter with the reach, style, and chin to win against a big clubbing country boy who did enjoy more popularity with fans than did Tubbs. Tubbs had a 3 fight streak against an improved Bonecrusher, improved Witherspoon, and of course Tyson at the middle of his peak. Those are more competitive than any 3 fight streak fat Larry put together until he erred by fighting Spinks twice and then Tyson. Lar ducked all those WBA champs like Tubbs, but not Shavers, there's your first clue.

Now Ernie is a fav of mine, so I'd say his best run was Clark 2x, Tiger Williams, Howard Smith, Ali, and Holmes. He gave Ali the worst beating I've ever seen with myself and many others thinking he beat him on the cards as well. Of course Ali was clearly enfeebled by then, being propped up by boxing to squeeze all the gold out of him and had already been whupped pretty regular on the downside his career. The nature of this board can be reflected internally by how many of you watched the tragedy of Ali/Holmes and Ali/Berbick. Who could ever do such a thing? Sadly there has always been a lower order of rube that the carnies used to cater too with fish in a barrel to shoot. That's all Ali offered by then, the reason for his ongoing tragedy.

I give Ernie a 25% chance of winning this early because of his power, we can never discount a slugger's chance, yet most here give him 100% which is just nonsense. The more likely scenario is Tubbs will box, move in and out with fast combos to put Ernie into a TKO dilemma come mid rounds. Maybe if you lot can mind your manners, when you pass you can go straight to Valhalla to see for yourselves.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:- Reason the forum is dying out is because it's become of a Stepford Wives type circling of cloned drones as evidenced by this topic.

Tubbs is an accomplished fighter with the reach

They had the same reach. Sometimes shavers is listed as having the longer arms in tale of the tape 80".

, style,

He did have a style that could frustrate or annoy shavers, but he was inconsistent.

and chin to win against a big clubbing country boy

Chin? Tubbs was knocked out five times. Two of those were first round knockouts, and one second round knockout. He was even stopped by a guy with 8 professional fights.

How exactly does he have the chin to endure a war with shavers? Shavers has the third highest number of 1st round Knockouts.

who did enjoy more popularity with fans than did Tubbs. Tubbs had a 3 fight streak against an improved Bonecrusher, improved Witherspoon, and of course Tyson at the middle of his peak. Those are more competitive than any 3 fight streak fat Larry put together until he erred by fighting Spinks twice and then Tyson.

What? What does larry Holmes have to do anything?

You're seriously comparing records between a guy who nearly beat joe louis' record to toney Tubbs terrible resume? Holmes was, as you said, out of shape and getting old vs Tyson and spinks. Tubbs had no excuse and disappointed his fans being out if shape after promisng them he would do his best.

Lar ducked all those WBA champs like Tubbs, but not Shavers, there's your first clue.

Larry beating norton, witherspoon, shavers, and c00ney, and Ray mercer as an old man is better than anything Tubbs has done. The main reason he "ducked" those guys was his beef with Don king and the sanctioning bodies bickering.

I agree it would have been even more icing on the cake for his resume if he fought thomas, tubbs, etc but this thread isn't about larry. I highly doubt he was afraid of them, Larry always spoke his mind. He flat out admitted he picked Marcus frazier over page because he felt he wasnt getting paid enough. This was the guy who jumped off the roof of a car to drop kick berbick.

Now Ernie is a fav of mine, so I'd say his best run was Clark 2x, Tiger Williams, Howard Smith, Ali, and Holmes.

I agree, that was the best version of shavers and his best run. His k.o streak was impressive but most of his victims were journeymen or bums, so even his losses to Ali and Holmes rank higher in terms of h2h performances.

He gave Ali the worst beating I've ever seen with myself and many others thinking he beat him on the cards as well. Of course Ali was clearly enfeebled by then, being propped up by boxing to squeeze all the gold out of him and had already been whupped pretty regular on the downside his career.

I think frazier gave Ali his best beatings by far. Despite being a small heavyweight (or perhaps because of it) he was able to slip inside and around alis flickering jabs and flurries to tear him apart on the inside. Very few people could consistently land on Ali like that, pre or post exile. But I do agree shavers landed some pretty scary shots and did very well.

No Ali wasn't completely gone at this point, he won narrowly on my scorecard agains shavers. He toyed with lyle and wepner then knocked them out. It really wasn't until norton 3 and Jimmy young thar alI was completely shot and relying on his name to win, he still had something in the gas tank post zair for a few decent performances.

The nature of this board can be reflected internally by how many of you watched the tragedy of Ali/Holmes and Ali/Berbick. Who could ever do such a thing? Sadly there has always been a lower order of rube that the carnies used to cater too with fish in a barrel to shoot. That's all Ali offered by then, the reason for his ongoing tragedy.

I give Ernie a 25% chance of winning this early because of his power, we can never discount a slugger's chance, yet most here give him 100% which is just nonsense.

I agree that shavers certainly wouldn't win "100%" of the time, its equally ridiculous to claim that the harder puncher in history only has a 25% chance against a fat, weak chinned, inconsistent abc champ.

The more likely scenario is Tubbs will box, move in and out with fast combos to put Ernie into a TKO dilemma come mid rounds.

I actually agree Tubbs had the style and tools to move in and out and steal a decision if he's focused and in shape.

But lol at a guy with a 42% k.o percentage knocking out shavers in the mid rounds. If he was at least a B level puncher like chuvalo or cobb, but he aint. Especially if we're talking about the in shape motivated shavers of the late 70's.

Maybe if you lot can mind your manners, when you pass you can go straight to Valhalla to see for yourselves.

Answers in bold.

Depends on whether Tubbs shaves and whether Shavers takes a bath.
Clean shaven Tubbs tucks his chin in and buckles an un-tubbed Shavers,
whereas a fully bathed Shavers runs rampant over a full-bearded Tubbs.
No expert can doubt that a Shavers fresh out of the tub trounces an unshaven
Tubbs. An unbathed Shavers could rarely be accused of point shaving against
even a fully-whiskered Tubbs. On the other hand, the tubbiest Tubbs would
have had a hard time fitting in most tubs, making it hard for him to top even
an unshaven Shavers.

Cygnus475 wrote: Answers in bold.

- Correction: Wrong answers in bold.

You seem to agree with the peak timelines of Tubbs and Shavers I provided, but not premise that Tubbs had the reach, style, and chin to beat Shavers because you say he was knocked out 5x and inconsistent.

Big Newsflash for you bub: Shavers knocked out 7x and considerably more inconsistent. As typical of the inartful on these boards, they want to match the best Earnie against the worst Tubbs, but I won't let you. You asked why I mentioned fat Larry? Well, Tubbs beat better versions of Smith and Witherspoon and wasn't knocked completely cold against Tyson like Lar. He also beat a standing champion who actually won a title bout, something fat Lar never did. And, Dude, deluded Lar never actually approached Rocky's 49-0 title record since Rocky was the unified champ and retired early rather than hang around to soil himself by moaning about who just beat him like Lar ended up doing. He never held more than a single belt, read it and weep. Tubbs could have more easily beat Zanon, Evangelista, Frank, Ledoux, Spinks and the rest of the softies he beat. Save for Tyson, Tubbs could be said to almost be unbeaten for a long time since he barely lost to Witherspoon and most thought he whooped Big Dummy. OK, he lost the plot after that robbery, but came back in his late 40s for a 5 fight streak to close out strong including an emerging prospect still fighting today as gatekeeper, Brian Minto.

Earnie first beat/KOed by Ron Stander in countryboy buckem up. No shame to lose a great fight, but he kinda defined his level with that fight. He shouldn't have come back at age 50, but nobody should have to lose to Brian Yates, http://boxrec.com/boxer/6836,...nobody!

And no, I don't drink your Ali Koolaide. Ali suffered bad damage by Wepner with near 100 rabbit punches. Should have been clear to anyone that Ali was way past his best by then and needed to find a soft spot to land, but no, go beat up again by Lyle for 11 rounds. He was never the most consistent defensive fighter as evidenced by his tragic condition that addled fans have contributed to. Sad that, but nothing I can do for him now.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote: Answers in bold.

- Correction: Wrong answers in bold.

You seem to agree with the peak timelines of Tubbs and Shavers I provided, but not premise that Tubbs had the reach, style, and chin to beat Shavers because you say he was knocked out 5x and inconsistent.

Big Newsflash for you bub: Shavers knocked out 7x and considerably more inconsistent. As typical of the inartful on these boards, they want to match the best Earnie against the worst Tubbs, but I won't let you. You asked why I mentioned fat Larry? Well, Tubbs beat better versions of Smith and Witherspoon and wasn't knocked completely cold against Tyson like Lar. He also beat a standing champion who actually won a title bout, something fat Lar never did. And, Dude, deluded Lar never actually approached Rocky's 49-0 title record since Rocky was the unified champ and retired early rather than hang around to soil himself by moaning about who just beat him like Lar ended up doing. He never held more than a single belt, read it and weep. Tubbs could have more easily beat Zanon, Evangelista, Frank, Ledoux, Spinks and the rest of the softies he beat. Save for Tyson, Tubbs could be said to almost be unbeaten for a long time since he barely lost to Witherspoon and most thought he whooped Big Dummy. OK, he lost the plot after that robbery, but came back in his late 40s for a 5 fight streak to close out strong including an emerging prospect still fighting today as gatekeeper, Brian Minto.

Earnie first beat/KOed by Ron Stander in countryboy buckem up. No shame to lose a great fight, but he kinda defined his level with that fight. He shouldn't have come back at age 50, but nobody should have to lose to Brian Yates, http://boxrec.com/boxer/6836,...nobody!

And no, I don't drink your Ali Koolaide. Ali suffered bad damage by Wepner with near 100 rabbit punches. Should have been clear to anyone that Ali was way past his best by then and needed to find a soft spot to land, but no, go beat up again by Lyle for 11 rounds. He was never the most consistent defensive fighter as evidenced by his tragic condition that addled fans have contributed to. Sad that, but nothing I can do for him now.

1-Tubbs being fat and out of shape for a huge chunk of his career is common knowledge...that's why the lead up to the Tyson fight was all about if he would actually work his gut off. That was literally all reporters kept asking him.

So no, I'm not "cherry picking" facts, you're just attempting to overlook the guys flaws.

2-Earnie was only ever stopped by guys with tremendous punching power (Lyle, Cobb) or very accurate counter punchers with decent power (Larry, Quarry). Tubbs has very low power and doesn't have a threatening Sunday punch to keep Earnie off of him. His only chance is to hit and run.

3-Are you high? Witherspoon's performance against Larry is considered one of his best performances despite losing. He got on drugs and was inconsistent after that. As for Smith, even if I grant you that Tubbs beat the better version larry still has a prime ken norton and shavers, that's superior to anything Tubbs has done.

4-larry was 48-0 and had 20 title defenses. He was on the verge of beating both Louis and rocks records. No amount of irrational haters de downplaying will change these facts.

As for beating an actual title holder...lol. Leon spinks refused to defend his belt against the mandatory challenger norton. So the crown was split between two belts. Ali became a 3x champ (the third belt was a paper belt and lineal title) norton beat young and became the "true" champ. Ali retired making the split irrelevant. Anyways, even if you want to argue about the "lineal" belt, LARRY beat Ali and won both the paper belts and the lineal title so you're argument is pointless and historically inaccurate.

Not to mention irrelevant. This is about Tubbs and shavers.

5-bringing up a 50 year old shavers is irrelevant. It's about as meaningless as bringing up a sparring session.

6-no, Ali toyed with wepner and hit him at will till the knockdown. Then all bets were off and he beat the breaks off him.

Lyle didn't beat up ali. Get some eye drops and watch it again. Lyle fought a very smart patient fight and picked bis shots carefully so he wouldn't make the same mistake George did. Ali was hoping he would gas himself out and even tried the rope a dope but fooled around and was behind n the score cards. So he set up a sneaky solid jab t make lyle block with both arms (big mistake) and took advantage of his obscured vision to launch a powerful right hand and beat lyle with about 20 unanswered punches.

The fact Ali rocked him that badly and turned his legs to jelly with a single right cross indicates A) lyle wasn't on his level, B) he probably could have ended it a lot earlier if he didn't screw around.

Tl;dr basically you're only argument is to try and diminish Ali and Larrys performances so that you can prop Tubbs up. It's pathetic. You're comparing how a 40 year old Holmes with a 2 year layoff getting knocked out cold in 5 rounds is worse than Tubbs being knocked out in 2 rounds when there was nothing wrong with him. You're saying post Zaire Ali was garbage and washed up in order to diminish how well shavers did against him.

So you're a hypocrite too, because you accused me of cherry peaking and downplaying Tubbs but youre doing everything in your power to alter history and diminish shavers performances.

Cygnus475 wrote:
4-larry was 48-0 and had 20 title defenses. He was on the verge of beating both Louis and rocks records. No amount of irrational haters de downplaying will change these facts.

- Well, Cyggy, it goes like this:

Dumb and getting dumber. Tubby Larry never close to the Louis record. Only guy in history that ever approached the two of them simultaneously was Dariusz Michalczewski who was within a whisker. To be fair, Mike Spinks would have whooped him too, so no shame that.

And No Sir, Norton/Young was a title eliminator, only upgraded by committee proxy to champion well after the fact, never mind Ken being in a long line of guys who beat Ali much like with happened with your sweetums Lar. And No Sir, Ken near the end of a long career when he relinquished his belt in a disputed split, then being denied the immediate rematch. How convenient. Lar 0-5 against actual standing champs which is why he preferred Shavers 2x rather than any of the WBA guys including Tubbs, all of whom mostly would have whooped him.

And someone was whooping Ali pretty bad. Go check him out.

My last and final point: You at least seem to acknowledge that Tubbs has a chance to win this even if I give him the greater chance. Don't let that single spark of boxing comptency go out Cyggy or you'll always be in the dark.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:
4-larry was 48-0 and had 20 title defenses. He was on the verge of beating both Louis and rocks records. No amount of irrational haters de downplaying will change these facts.

- Well, Cyggy, it goes like this:

Dumb and getting dumber. Tubby Larry never close to the Louis record. Only guy in history that ever approached the two of them simultaneously was Dariusz Michalczewski who was within a whisker. To be fair, Mike Spinks would have whooped him too, so no shame that.

And No Sir, Norton/Young was a title eliminator, only upgraded by committee proxy to champion well after the fact, never mind Ken being in a long line of guys who beat Ali much like with happened with your sweetums Lar. And No Sir, Ken near the end of a long career when he relinquished his belt in a disputed split, then being denied the immediate rematch. How convenient. Lar 0-5 against actual standing champs which is why he preferred Shavers 2x rather than any of the WBA guys including Tubbs, all of whom mostly would have whooped him.

And someone was whooping Ali pretty bad. Go check him out.

My last and final point: You at least seem to acknowledge that Tubbs has a chance to win this even if I give him the greater chance. Don't let that single spark of boxing comptency go out Cyggy or you'll always be in the dark.

I'm not going to argue historical facts. Holmes beat ELEVEN world champions, including the lineal champ. Your 0-5 claim indicates you're either a troll or an imbecile. It took me 30 seconds to look it up.

Larry succeeded in 19 title defenses. Again, last time I will say it, I'm not going to argue historical facts

It doesn't matter how it happened, Norton was OFFICIALLY named WBC champ for his win. Larry beat both him and Ali (lineal champ) and later picked up the IBF belt. This was before he went on his 19 win streak. You simply don't know what you're talking about. And I never said Holmes was justified ignoring norton rematch request, but this thread isn't about larry for crying out loud. The fact is, a win over norton and 19 defenses surpasses anything Tubbs has done, both in terms of legacy and h2h skill. It's hilarious how hard you're trying to prop Tubbs up by downplaying the #1 p4p fighter of the early 80's.

Shavers was a bigger threat than almost any of the ABC champs, especially tubbs. Greg page is about the only one he avoided whom I think could have potentially beaten him.

Now, can we get back to the actual thread and discuss how TONEY does against EARNIE...?

And lol at me being in the dark, 90% of the comments have been in shavers favor by brutal stoppage. I'm actually one of the few who gives him a chance if he's in shape.

Cygnus475 wrote: I'm not going to argue historical facts. Holmes beat ELEVEN world champions, including the lineal champ. Your 0-5 claim indicates you're either a troll or an imbecile. It took me 30 seconds to look it up.

Larry succeeded in 19 title defenses. Again, last time I will say it, I'm not going to argue historical facts

- Wow, I've been properly schooled it appears, ay Chihuahua, mea culpa!

Now at least we know the active ingredients in Fat Larry's proprietary koolaide mix. Start with your Assinine Boxing Council title, Bovine Boxing Council title, Cilantro BC, Doofus BC, Every Man Can BC, Flomo BC, Gitmo BC, Hoochie BC, Igno BC, Jack BC, and Koolaide BC for a total of 11 unified titles, or is that 13 with the WBC and the sick Ali lineal title thrown in? No matter, that makes Lar the most unified champion of any weight class, nobody even close. Cain't wait for BoxRec to update their records...this is gonna be good...no, epic!

in the meantime, Lar willing to fight Shavers twice, yet not a single WBA champ in a golden era of talented heavies fighting each other for that title. Just think, he could've held another title, but I guess they were getting hard to keep up with after all those mandatories.

Did Larry screw your mom and give her herpes? Jeez, not one part of your post was about shavers vs tubbs. Congrats on becoming the first user I will ignore from here on out.

Btw, you're not funny. Dont quit your day job because trolling doesn't suit you (assuming you have one).