BoxRec

Prime for prime who would win between Alexis Arguello vs. Edwin Rosario at Lightweight? Your opinion?

the first thing I am thinking about, forgetting styles or records or anything else, is marking up and eye damage. Rosario seemed to mark up quickly and badly ('high ridgebone' on his cheeks as Manny S would say).

that alone means Arguello beats him, he'd be puffy and bloody before 6 rounds had finished and a nasty mess if he managed to last as long as 10.

I have just watched a lot of Arguello fights. Arguello on stoppage for me in about 8-9 rounds. He was awesome!

Edwin Rosario is PERFECT for the great Alexis Arguello's style. Arguello by TKO in 10 or 11.

Alexis in 10

Arguello mid-late round stoppage.
One of the greats at lightweight.

Yes, Arguello would used his jabs to out-box and out-slug Rosario for a stoppage win between 12 and 15 rounds.

Arguello by TKO 9-10 rounds

Arguello would bust Rosario up with pinpoint accuracy and a fuller arsenal. Rosario is a big hitter so Arguello could never relax in the fight, but I think after a while he'd take the sting off of Rosario's shots with his consistent punching. I figure Arguello stops him sometime between the 9th and 11th round.

If Edwin hadn't changed his style, he would've won a close decision. But Alexis would time him with shots, and eventually wear him down, about the 13th round.

A peak Rosario wins it... He outboxes Arguello like Vilomar Fernandez did... Fernandez had 6 losses but he was still a better boxer than Arguello.

More proof??? ... Aaron Pryor outboxed Arguello in 2 fights before he knocked him out... His hands were a little too quick and he had a better stance.

Yeah, two fighters totally dissimilar to Rosario are great indicators here

Counter-puncher wrote:Yeah, two fighters totally dissimilar to Rosario are great indicators here

Seriously.

Floyd Mayweather outboxed Canelo

Therefore Diego Corrales could've also

Rosario was a nice fighter. Maybe an even heavier puncher than Arguello.

But Arguello was an ATG who would wear down and eventually dissect Rosario, much like he did Mancini. The Puerto Rican had a lot of flaws.

Yes, Arguello's main weakness was poor foot speed, but I don't see Rosario as some type of fleet footed boxer who could dance circles around the Nicaraguan, and avoid the big shots.

El Flaco Explosivo beats down Rosario via a 10th round KO.

SenorPipino wrote:Rosario was a nice fighter. Maybe an even heavier puncher than Arguello.

But Arguello was an ATG who would wear down and eventually dissect Rosario, much like he did Mancini. The Puerto Rican had a lot of flaws.

Yes, Arguello's main weakness was poor foot speed, but I don't see Rosario as some type of fleet footed boxer who could dance circles around the Nicaraguan, and avoid the big shots.

El Flaco Explosivo beats down Rosario via a 10th round KO.

Well said. You always call it perfect.

gilgamesh wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Yeah, two fighters totally dissimilar to Rosario are great indicators here

Seriously.

Floyd Mayweather outboxed Canelo

Therefore Diego Corrales could've also

Corrales was short armed, tall, skinny, slow of foot, an attacker, and an open target. Never a full Welterweight, he was nothing at all like Floyd.

Fernandez and Pryor both had very fast hands and feet and were both good boxers... One was an attacker -- one was strictly a finesse fighter -- but they both had speed and boxing skill in common with Rosario and they both flummoxed Arguello... You should think before you post dumb comments.

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Yeah, two fighters totally dissimilar to Rosario are great indicators here

Seriously.

Floyd Mayweather outboxed Canelo

Therefore Diego Corrales could've also

Corrales was short armed, tall, skinny, slow of foot, an attacker, and an open target. Never a full Welterweight, he was nothing at all like Floyd.

Fernandez and Pryor both had very fast hands and feet and were both good boxers... One was an attacker -- one was strictly a finesse fighter -- but they both had speed and boxing skill in common with Rosario and they both flummoxed Arguello... You should think before you post dumb comments.

Leave it to you to not get sarcasm and mockery when you see it. I would've thought the laughing faces would make it obvious, but I guess not.

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Yeah, two fighters totally dissimilar to Rosario are great indicators here

Seriously.

Floyd Mayweather outboxed Canelo

Therefore Diego Corrales could've also

Corrales was short armed, tall, skinny, slow of foot, an attacker, and an open target. Never a full Welterweight, he was nothing at all like Floyd.

Fernandez and Pryor both had very fast hands and feet and were both good boxers... One was an attacker -- one was strictly a finesse fighter -- but they both had speed and boxing skill in common with Rosario and they both flummoxed Arguello... You should think before you post dumb comments.

the main similarity between Rosario and Pryor, or Rosario and Fernandez, is that they all have two arms and tow legs. After that there's a pretty big drop-off, because stylistically neither man is anything like Rosario.

Pryor was a volume-punching guy, Fernandez a pick'n'poke mover-boxer.

on the other hand Rosario was a heavyhanded boxer-puncher.

The comparison between Fernandez and Pryor's fights with Arguello tells us literally nothing about how an Arguello - Rosario fight might go.

The way Pryor and Fernandez beat Arguello to the punch... where able to put jabs on him... where able to hit him with quick punches of all variety... that tells us a lot about how a fighter as quick and slick as Rosario would deal with Arguello -- or could deal with Alexis if he were at his best.. Like a lot of super talented fighters Rosario cut corners in training and fell into drug addiction along with a heavy use of alcohol.. A pity.. I saw him against Edwin Viruet, Howard Davis, Frankie Randell, and Livingstone Bramble.. He had very fast hands and feet and carried a lot of power.

Arguello was never as quick fisted or talented.. He was goal oriented and extremely disciplined.. That's why he achieved as much as he did.. We're talking about a theoretical fight here however -- how would it play out if they were both at their best? ... What were their strengths and weaknesses?

Kalan wrote:The way Pryor and Fernandez beat Arguello to the punch... where able to put jabs on him... where able to hit him with quick punches of all variety... that tells us a lot about how a fighter as quick and slick as Rosario would deal with Arguello -- or could deal with Alexis if he were at his best.. Like a lot of super talented fighters Rosario cut corners in training and fell into drug addiction along with a heavy use of alcohol.. A pity.. I saw him against Edwin Viruet, Howard Davis, Frankie Randell, and Livingstone Bramble.. He had very fast hands and feet and carried a lot of power.

We're talking about a theoretical fight here however -- how would it play out if they were both at their best? ... What were their strengths and weaknesses?

Yes, we're trying to talk about Rosarios strengths and weaknesses. You rightly mention that both Fernandez and Pryor gave Arguello problems with the jab...

Rosarios jab was below-average, which is a good example of why Pryor and Fernandez are poor examples of how a Rosario-Arguello fight would go. Rosario never landed a jab on Chavez for example, and he was not a guy difficult to find with the jab.

Rosario was not a great defensive fighter, prone to marking up and swelling around the eyes both of which are hell if you're fighting Arguello.

I agree Arguellos feet weren't great, but Rosario wasn't a guy like Fernandez with excellent foot movement, his feet were okay but a fighter like Camacho showed that Rosario didn't have the footwork of a really fleet-footed guy, not like Pryor or Fernandez

Make your case for Rosario beating Arguello if you want, I don't agree but I don't think it's your craziest notion, but Pryor and Fernandez are both terrible and illegitimate points of comparison

Counter-puncher wrote:

Kalan wrote:The way Pryor and Fernandez beat Arguello to the punch... where able to put jabs on him... where able to hit him with quick punches of all variety... that tells us a lot about how a fighter as quick and slick as Rosario would deal with Arguello -- or could deal with Alexis if he were at his best.. Like a lot of super talented fighters Rosario cut corners in training and fell into drug addiction along with a heavy use of alcohol.. A pity.. I saw him against Edwin Viruet, Howard Davis, Frankie Randell, and Livingstone Bramble.. He had very fast hands and feet and carried a lot of power.

We're talking about a theoretical fight here however -- how would it play out if they were both at their best? ... What were their strengths and weaknesses?

Yes, we're trying to talk about Rosarios strengths and weaknesses. You rightly mention that both Fernandez and Pryor gave Arguello problems with the jab...

Rosarios jab was below-average, which is a good example of why Pryor and Fernandez are poor examples of how a Rosario-Arguello fight would go. Rosario never landed a jab on Chavez for example, and he was not a guy difficult to find with the jab.

Rosario was not a great defensive fighter, prone to marking up and swelling around the eyes both of which are hell if you're fighting Arguello.

I agree Arguellos feet weren't great, but Rosario wasn't a guy like Fernandez with excellent foot movement, his feet were okay but a fighter like Camacho showed that Rosario didn't have the footwork of a really fleet-footed guy, not like Pryor or Fernandez

Make your case for Rosario beating Arguello if you want, I don't agree but I don't think it's your craziest notion, but Pryor and Fernandez are both terrible and illegitimate points of comparison

When you say Rosario's jab was "below-average" it's such a biased and stupid statement it's absurd.

Rosario had a championship caliber jab. He out-jabbed excellent jabbers in Livingston Bramble, knocking him out in 2 rounds.. He used a better jab, better foot speed, better everything you don't give him any credit for having.. He also out-jabbed and out-sped Howard Davis, who was 26-1 and had an excellent jab at that time of his career. Davis was named the outstanding boxer of the 1976 Olympic Games over Sugar Ray Leonard.

A peak Chavez, 56-0, didn't give you any room to jab or box from the outside. Chavez was a very great infighter and Lightweight -- too good for Rosario and just too tough and brutal inside. Arguello was not that caliber of Lightweight and gave you room to box. He could be flat out-boxed by Rosario the way Fernandez did it... The Camacho fight was extremely close and I had Rosario winning 115-113. He did more damage. Arguello was not as fast or as slick a boxer as a peak Camacho or Davis. Rosario did get involved with drugs. It certainly destroyed his career and life, but he was great at his peak.

Kalan wrote:
A peak Chavez, 56-0, didn't give you any room to jab or box from the outside. .

and yet Roger Mayweather landed about 150 jabs on him

No he didn't... In their rematch, Chavez took Mayweather's jab away by the mid rounds. He won all the late rounds and made Mayweather quit in 10.
Their rematch was Chavez's FIRST fight at 140, which was not his best weight. In their 1st fight at 130, Chavez crushed Mayweather in 2 rounds.

Rosario's team tried a different strategy. A prime Chavez always succeeded in bulling his way inside and taking over jabbers, because his lateral movement was so good, he cut the ring off so well, and his inside game was so slick. He was so popular that referees pretty much allowed him to push and maul. To short circuit that, Rosario's team tried to beat the master infighter at his own game. Rosario tried to fight Chavez inside and was able to score well, but Chavez's chin was too strong and he was too good. They let the fight go too long. Rosario's left eye was closed after the 10th and it was nuts not to stop it.

Arguello was much taller, much slower, tried to use his height, range, and jab. It was a completely different match-up which would favor Rosario.

Kalan wrote:No he didn't... In their rematch, Chavez took Mayweather's jab away by the mid rounds.

up until which point Mayweather had landed about 150 jabs

No he didn't... And it didn't matter how many he landed, because at the peak of his game Chavez always took your jab away by the mid rounds anyway. You had to find a different way to beat him and trying to beat him inside didn't work either. They both got beaten by one of the best ever.