BoxRec

Mike Tyson under Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney was on his way to being an all time great heavyweight. Tyson became a different fighter when he parted ways with them. He became a head hunter and lacked discipline and patience. Although Tyson never had great stamina he was able to go the distance of 10 and 12 rounds a few times and win. The stamina issues were magnified when he got out of jail and was basically a shell of his former self. A prime Tyson had good boxing skills to go along with great power and speed. Tyson in his prime could last 12 rounds and possibly 15 if needed.

Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was. Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so. Sonny could box and go the distance without a problem. Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history. His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there.

Sonny Liston would not have that hard a time with Tyson. Liston would used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts. Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power. Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. A great heavyweight contender named Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight, bloodying his nose and possibly breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed. Williams was also bigger than Tyson. Liston simply shook off the blows and figured Williams out, eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds. Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch. Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him. Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout.

Liston, by mid rounds KO.

dr_devious wrote:Liston, by mid rounds KO.

X2

I think this fight is won before the bell. I see Tyson being intimidated by a man like Liston. If not Tyson always a has a chance, he's a great puncher with good speed but he has to overcome a 13 inch reach advantage he's giving away to a man with a good powerful jab. If I had to pick I would pick Liston but I would love to see the fight it would be a barn burner.

Liston stops Tyson in the middle rounds. Around the 7th or 8th.

Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson would have been the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.
Before Prime Liston suddenly became over the hill for no reason againt Clay, he was close to invincible.
Prime Tyson was invincible when he had Cus and Rooney and the gang. Then when he became the only fighter in history to get different people in his corner, he was nowhere near what he once was.

Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson would not have as good of a fight. Both were "bullies" who would have quit at the first sign of trouble. Just a matter of who got in trouble first.

I can't see not too many heavyweights that could match the power and speed of the great Mike Tyson. Tyson by KO in 3.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson would have been the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.
Before Prime Liston suddenly became over the hill for no reason againt Clay, he was close to invincible.
Prime Tyson was invincible when he had Cus and Rooney and the gang. Then when he became the only fighter in history to get different people in his corner, he was nowhere near what he once was.

Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson would not have as good of a fight. Both were "bullies" who would have quit at the first sign of trouble. Just a matter of who got in trouble first.

Liston must've quit when he had his jaw broken by Marty Marshall, since he was just a bully who quit at the first site of trouble.

abdelfadeeli wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson would have been the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.
Before Prime Liston suddenly became over the hill for no reason againt Clay, he was close to invincible.
Prime Tyson was invincible when he had Cus and Rooney and the gang. Then when he became the only fighter in history to get different people in his corner, he was nowhere near what he once was.

Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson would not have as good of a fight. Both were "bullies" who would have quit at the first sign of trouble. Just a matter of who got in trouble first.

Liston must've quit when he had his jaw broken by Marty Marshall, since he was just a bully who quit at the first site of trouble.

Sonny is all wrong for Mike, they both were unpredictable but far from quitters. Alp is a buffoon, if it isn't Ali or leonard, he makes it about them.

Tyson 2nd round KO! Tyson way to fast for Liston.

I don't know how folk can be so absolute about this one either way.

One thing is for sure, each man would have their work cut out to beat the other.

Liston probably is the one kind of opponent Tyson would have hated facing, but on the other hand, could Liston have coped with Tyson's speed, power & head movement in one?

I'm inclined to side with Liston, but I'm not so unequivocal about it as many are.

Know one will ever know so just Opinion.

Liston would beat Tyson in a similar manner to how Lewis beat him. Break him down with the jab, then stop him late-ish.

Rexob wrote:Tyson 2nd round KO! Tyson way to fast for Liston.

That's correct , just like Floyd Patterson

Patterson with much faster hands than Tyson dominated Liston

Patterson made Liston look like a fool. Liston didn't even land a single punch on Patterson. Oh wait...

abdelfadeeli wrote:

Rexob wrote:Tyson 2nd round KO! Tyson way to fast for Liston.

That's correct , just like Floyd Patterson

Patterson with much faster hands than Tyson dominated Liston

Patterson made Liston look like a fool. Liston didn't even land a single punch on Patterson. Oh wait...

To be fair, Tyson was much more formidable than Floyd Patterson.

Would have been interesting. Physically Liston was not much bigger than Tyson. He was 6'1" and about 215 in his prime and Tyson was 5'11'.
215.
Liston had a hellaciuos Jab and good power, but what is overlooked is he was a big man in his time, a lot of his early opponents weighed a lot less than him. He had 20 pounds of solid muscle on Patterson. Liston was not very evasive and not a combination puncher.
Tyson was a lot faster than most people give him credit for. He also had superb head movement and threw great combos.
Liston's ability as a boxer relied on keeping his opponents on their heels with his jab and catching them on the end of a power shot.
Sonny would have a puncher's Chance but I see Tyson being too strong and quick on the inside and stopping Sonny somewhere between the 3rd and 8th Round.
Barring Liston Catching Mike with a shot before the 5th I think the best Liston could do would be to try to hang on and hold while losing a unanimous decision.

Im taking Mike to win this in the first 2 rounds. If it goes the distance Liston has much more chance but I see Mike's handspeed being the key and the most likely scenario is he gets under the jab and unloads combos on liston to win early.

cfang wrote:Im taking Mike to win this in the first 2 rounds. If it goes the distance Liston has much more chance but I see Mike's handspeed being the key and the most likely scenario is he gets under the jab and unloads combos on liston to win early.

That is the key.

Tyson's head movement was good & Liston's jab might not have been a major factor, as Tyson would probably have slipped it.

Tyson fought some good jabbers & beat them comfortably, i.e., Thomas, Bruno & Williams, but what would swing it in Liston's favour is if he could get Tyson on the inside, because Mike was totally clueless about in-fighting.

All in all, a tough contest to call for me.

abdelfadeeli wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson would have been the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.
Before Prime Liston suddenly became over the hill for no reason againt Clay, he was close to invincible.
Prime Tyson was invincible when he had Cus and Rooney and the gang. Then when he became the only fighter in history to get different people in his corner, he was nowhere near what he once was.

Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson would not have as good of a fight. Both were "bullies" who would have quit at the first sign of trouble. Just a matter of who got in trouble first.

Liston must've quit when he had his jaw broken by Marty Marshall, since he was just a bully who quit at the first site of trouble.

I was joking about the "bullies" as well. Many people go to one extreme or the other with Liston.
Some people go over the top with the past their prime excuses for Liston and Tyson.

The word "Prime" is used so often before Tyson's name that you would think that was his actual name.

Other people oversimplify things with the "bully" analogy as if they all an opponent had to do was fight back and Tyson and/or Liston would automatically cave.

The truth is in the middle.

They were two of the best heavyweights of all time. On the other hand, they had flaws and there were a small % of heavyweights who were better.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

abdelfadeeli wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Prime Liston vs Prime Tyson would have been the greatest heavyweight fight of all time.
Before Prime Liston suddenly became over the hill for no reason againt Clay, he was close to invincible.
Prime Tyson was invincible when he had Cus and Rooney and the gang. Then when he became the only fighter in history to get different people in his corner, he was nowhere near what he once was.

Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson would not have as good of a fight. Both were "bullies" who would have quit at the first sign of trouble. Just a matter of who got in trouble first.

Liston must've quit when he had his jaw broken by Marty Marshall, since he was just a bully who quit at the first site of trouble.

I was joking about the "bullies" as well. Many people go to one extreme or the other with Liston.
Some people go over the top with the past their prime excuses for Liston and Tyson.

The word "Prime" is used so often before Tyson's name that you would think that was his actual name.

Other people oversimplify things with the "bully" analogy as if they all an opponent had to do was fight back and Tyson and/or Liston would automatically cave.

The truth is in the middle.

They were two of the best heavyweights of all time. On the other hand, they had flaws and there were a small % of heavyweights who were better.

Spot on.

LOL about the prime bit; so very true, almost as if it needs to be said to excuse Tyson.

They were actually two very good fighters who I believe to be more evenly matched than many think, hence why I am not so unequivocal about how a hypothetical could have gone.

Amongst all the hyperbole on either sides about these two, the truth is definitely somewhere in the middle.

abdelfadeeli wrote:Mike Tyson under Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney was on his way to being an all time great heavyweight. Tyson became a different fighter when he parted ways with them. He became a head hunter and lacked discipline and patience. Although Tyson never had great stamina he was able to go the distance of 10 and 12 rounds a few times and win. The stamina issues were magnified when he got out of jail and was basically a shell of his former self. A prime Tyson had good boxing skills to go along with great power and speed. Tyson in his prime could last 12 rounds and possibly 15 if needed.

Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was. Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so. Sonny could box and go the distance without a problem. Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history. His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there.

Sonny Liston would not have that hard a time with Tyson. Liston would used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts. Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power. Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. A great heavyweight contender named Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight, bloodying his nose and possibly breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed. Williams was also bigger than Tyson. Liston simply shook off the blows and figured Williams out, eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds. Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch. Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him. Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout.

I enjoyed reading your post mate but.....I feel you may have been slightly dismissive of another huge puncher by the name of Earnie Shavers

Truth is I don't know enough about Sonny to give much of a prediction, you make it sound like a great fight....anyone that could dominate a prime Mike Tyson must make for spectacular viewing.

I know Liston had a very, very hard life but what do you mean by his rep of being a bad man without having to say it?

Does anyone know if there are any good biographies on Sonny?

magwitch wrote:

abdelfadeeli wrote:Mike Tyson under Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney was on his way to being an all time great heavyweight. Tyson became a different fighter when he parted ways with them. He became a head hunter and lacked discipline and patience. Although Tyson never had great stamina he was able to go the distance of 10 and 12 rounds a few times and win. The stamina issues were magnified when he got out of jail and was basically a shell of his former self. A prime Tyson had good boxing skills to go along with great power and speed. Tyson in his prime could last 12 rounds and possibly 15 if needed.

Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was. Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so. Sonny could box and go the distance without a problem. Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history. His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there.

Sonny Liston would not have that hard a time with Tyson. Liston would used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts. Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power. Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. A great heavyweight contender named Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight, bloodying his nose and possibly breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed. Williams was also bigger than Tyson. Liston simply shook off the blows and figured Williams out, eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds. Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch. Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him. Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout.

I enjoyed reading your post mate but.....I feel you may have been slightly dismissive of another huge puncher by the name of Earnie Shavers

Truth is I don't know enough about Sonny to give much of a prediction, you make it sound like a great fight....anyone that could dominate a prime Mike Tyson must make for spectacular viewing.

I know Liston had a very, very hard life but what do you mean by his rep of being a bad man without having to say it?

Does anyone know if there are any good biographies on Sonny?

Listin just had this aura about him. His connections with the mob and the underworld. "When Sonny gave you the evil eye—I don't care who you were—you shrunk to two feet tall." Tex Maule wrote in Sports illustrated."

As for the biography, I liked The Devil and Sonny Liston.

Tyson by knockout inside of 6.

And in fairness to Sonny. He never came unraveled in the ring against anyone not named Cassius Clay.

I honestly think that in his prime (and it was very short) Tyson was the best heavyweight ever. I would seriously expect him to beat every other heavy, except maybe Larry Holmes, on his best day. Ali was for example very vulnerable to a left hook. Cooper almost knocked him out. Tyson probably had the hardest and quickest left hook ever in the heavyweights.