BoxRec

yancey wrote:Bugner's confidence continually grows and he becomes more aggressive as he realizes he is the stronger man.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

yancey wrote:Bugner's confidence continually grows and he becomes more aggressive as he realizes he is the stronger man.

When did this ever happen?

yancey wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

yancey wrote:Bugner's confidence continually grows and he becomes more aggressive as he realizes he is the stronger man.

When did this ever happen?

Always a first time, bud.

Things do happen, people can change and rise to the occasion.

Sorry you are blinkered you just can't see.

But I wish I could bet some of you guys on this one.

mercman wrote:Bugner didn't get KOd by Shavers, he got stopped on a cut. Shavers had Bugner down in the first (Shavers' classic hit and hold) but Bugner bounced straight back up and then Shavers did Bugner with his head in the second. The doctor called time on it when he inspected the cut.

In fact Bugner only actually got KOd once in his entire career and that was in his first pro fight as a lanky 17-year-old. He got stopped on a couple of other occasions when he was a veteran - by Bruno and Scott Welch but they were both RSC.

From memory, here's a list of decent fighters Bugner beat:

Jimmy Ellis, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster, Brian London, Henry Cooper, Quick Tillis, Greg Page, David Bey, Bonecrusher Smith.

ps. I still don't think Bugner beats Marciano - although I would back him to go the full 15.

mercman wrote:Bugner didn't get KOd by Shavers, he got stopped on a cut. Shavers had Bugner down in the first (Shavers' classic hit and hold) but Bugner bounced straight back up and then Shavers did Bugner with his head in the second. The doctor called time on it when he inspected the cut.

In fact Bugner only actually got KOd once in his entire career and that was in his first pro fight as a lanky 17-year-old. He got stopped on a couple of other occasions when he was a veteran - by Bruno and Scott Welch but they were both RSC.

From memory, here's a list of decent fighters Bugner beat:

Jimmy Ellis, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster, Brian London, Henry Cooper, Quick Tillis, Greg Page, David Bey, Bonecrusher Smith.

ps. I still don't think Bugner beats Marciano - although I would back him to go the full 15.

mercman wrote:

cfang wrote:Aye true it was a cut I stand corrected. However, the list of decent fighters he beats says it all. He didn't actually beat one really good fighter in his prime - when he came up against anyone really good - he lost. Smith, Bey, Page and Tillis were all when all of them were past it. Cooper is debatable, Ellis was defo past it as was Brian London so we're left with Wepner and Mac Foster. Point Im making is he didnt really beat anyone really decent and that's not enough to say he'd beat Rocky - although I see you agree about that :)

Yeah, I keep hearing this about Bugner not beating fighters in their prime but you could say that about a lot of boxers if you combed through their records.

The thing is, Bugner hardly fought anybody in his prime as he was largely inactive from his mid-20s to his early-30s so we never really saw the best of him. Bugner was either a youngster or a veteran when he beat the fighters I listed so they're pretty decent wins.

People go on about 'Oh, Page was past it, blah, blah' but he was actually 29 and had been world champ 18 months earlier when he fought Bugner. 'Aussie Joe', in contrast, was late-30s, seriously overweight and had been largely inactive for years, yet he still did a number on Page.

James Tillis had gone the distance with an up-and-coming Mike Tyson the same year he lost to Bugner and, again, was a lot younger than him. Bugner was also coming off a long lay-off so, you know, give the guy some credit

In fact, who did Bugner fight in his prime? Ali, who he went 15 rounds with; Richard Dunn, who he KOd in 1; and Ron Lyle, who he lost a split decision to but frankly it could have gone either way. In fact, I've always scored it a draw.

That's about it really.

Ambling Alp II wrote:
I agree. I don't see how someone can say that Page, Tillis, Smith, and Bey were all past it. They were not. In fact Bugner himself was past it and still beat all of them.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:
I agree. I don't see how someone can say that Page, Tillis, Smith, and Bey were all past it. They were not. In fact Bugner himself was past it and still beat all of them.

Alp. . . . You don't think Bonecrusher Smith was past it?

He was 50 years old!

cfang wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:
I agree. I don't see how someone can say that Page, Tillis, Smith, and Bey were all past it. They were not. In fact Bugner himself was past it and still beat all of them.

Alp. . . . You don't think Bonecrusher Smith was past it?

He was 50 years old!