BoxRec

Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

Because after the David Haye win he was clearly the best at the weight.

Naandrew wrote:Because after the David Haye win he was clearly the best at the weight.

So Haye was The Man??? Come on

bigman1968 wrote:

Naandrew wrote:Because after the David Haye win he was clearly the best at the weight.

So Haye was The Man??? Come on

he didnt say that, haye was probably the best and only contender around at that point

When Lennox Lewis retired it was left vacant until the number 1 (Wlad) beat the number 2 (Chagaev) in 2009.

Tyson Fury beat Wlad to claim the lineal title.

Source: Sports Illustrated

pugilisticspecialist wrote:When Lennox Lewis retired it was left vacant until the number 1 (Wlad) beat the number 2 (Chagaev) in 2009.

Tyson Fury beat Wlad to claim the lineal title.

Source: Sports Illustrated

Lewis retired at 2003!!! Eventually, Lewis's belts(WBC and IBO) went to Vitaly Klitchko.

Wladimir Klitchko collected hid first belt (IBF) at 2006 and added couple of additional belts before his fight with Chagaev, who even did not put his WBA belt at stake (don't know why).

bigman1968 wrote:Wladimir Klitchko collected hid first belt (IBF) at 2006 and added couple of additional belts before his fight with Chagaev, who even did not put his WBA belt at stake (don't know why).

Because Chagaev was only the WBA 'Champion In Recess' at the time. The 'regular' WBA champion was Nikolai Valuev.

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

In this case Gene Tunney should be considered the last Lineal Heavyweight Champion.

Boxing Writer wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

In this case Gene Tunney should be considered the last Lineal Heavyweight Champion.

This exactly. If a champion retires the line has to start again somewhere. Vitali was the clear #1 guy after Lewis retired, but not clearly the champ, as the titles were fragmented. Then Vitali retired, Wlad won the IBF title, decisively beating Chris Byrd, avenged his defeat to Lamon Brewster and unified with Sultan Ibragimov. By this point it was clear he was the #1 guy in the division - I viewed him as the legit champion, but many still did not. By the time he beat WBA champion, Ruslan Chagaev in 2009, Vitali had returned at reclaimed the WBC title and again it wasn't clear who the best heavyweight in the world was. When Vitali retired again in 2012, it was again clear that Wlad was far and away the best heavyweight in the world, although he never tried to unify and get the WBC title. Whatever way you look at it, Wlad was THE man at heavyweight when Fury beat him, making Fury THE man at heavyweight right now.

When the undisputed HW Champion retires such as Gene Tunney, Rocky Marcinao, or Lennox Lewis it is impossible to have an actual lineal champion. The top 2 contenders can obviously be subjective.

Having said that, Tyson Fury is THE HW Champion.

Well for me, Vitali was "the man", when they were both champions. Subjective i guess. Anyway with Vitali retiring i think it was undisputable that Wlad was "the man" and put bed to any doubt when he beat Povetkin.

That to me suggests Fury has to be considered the true HW champion of the world. Joshua/Martin/Glazkov competing over the scraps they stripped for him was a disgrace.

Tony1244 wrote:When the undisputed HW Champion retires such as Gene Tunney, Rocky Marcinao, or Lennox Lewis it is impossible to have an actual lineal champion. The top 2 contenders can obviously be subjective.

Having said that, Tyson Fury is THE HW Champion.

It is possible to have a lineal champ when a previous one retires. An undisputed champ starts a new lineage. If Stiverne or Wilder fought Wlad, we would have had a new lineal champ.

ikorolev wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:When the undisputed HW Champion retires such as Gene Tunney, Rocky Marcinao, or Lennox Lewis it is impossible to have an actual lineal champion. The top 2 contenders can obviously be subjective.

Having said that, Tyson Fury is THE HW Champion.

It is possible to have a lineal champ when a previous one retires. An undisputed champ starts a new lineage. If Stiverne or Wilder fought Wlad, we would have had a new lineal champ.

Stiverne fights?

ZZZzzZZZZzzzZZZ

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

Because he was clearly the dominant fighter in the division, having beaten every available challenger up til that point.

What's the point bleating on about Lineal championships, in a world where there are 4 major belts up for grabs?

Nicely put jezamundo.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

Because he was clearly the dominant fighter in the division, having beaten every available challenger up til that point.

What's the point bleating on about Lineal championships, in a world where there are 4 major belts up for grabs?

Yep, with all that ducking happening in most of weight classes, lineal titles became worthless.

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

He beat several other titleholders during his reign. Several of whom were the divisions #1 or #2 contender at the time of him beating them. The Lineal Heavyweight Title was vacant because Lennox Lewis had retired as Champion, Wladimir Klitschko was the first guy after his retirement to basically clean out the division of all noteworthy contenders.

gilgamesh wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

He beat several other titleholders during his reign. Several of whom were the divisions #1 or #2 contender at the time of him beating them. The Lineal Heavyweight Title was vacant because Lennox Lewis had retired as Champion, Wladimir Klitschko was the first guy after his retirement to basically clean out the division of all noteworthy contenders.

He didn't fight his brother or Wilder though.

To be honest, there have been many breaks in lineage of the HW championship & as such, the linear title has often been bestowed upon the man who was the best around at the time because that man hadn't had the opportunity to face the previous linear champion.

The alphabet boys haven't helped; in fact, they have often clouded the situation.

When Mike Tyson faced Michael Spinks, Tyson was the supposed 'undisputed' champion, but he didn't become the linear champion until he beat Spinks!

ikorolev wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:Just curious, why Wladimir Klitchko are considered Lineal Champion?

He didn't beat The Man, becouse it wasn't The Man when

He beat several other titleholders during his reign. Several of whom were the divisions #1 or #2 contender at the time of him beating them. The Lineal Heavyweight Title was vacant because Lennox Lewis had retired as Champion, Wladimir Klitschko was the first guy after his retirement to basically clean out the division of all noteworthy contenders.

He didn't fight his brother or Wilder though.

Wilder didn't become relevant until the back end of his reign. Wladimir Klitschko had already established himself as THE Champion before Wilder was even in the Top 10

And as for not fighting his brother. It's ridiculous to have ever expected that of him.

Syntax Error wrote:To be honest, there have been many breaks in lineage of the HW championship & as such, the linear title has often been bestowed upon the man who was the best around at the time because that man hadn't had the opportunity to face the previous linear champion.

The alphabet boys haven't helped; in fact, they have often clouded the situation.

When Mike Tyson faced Michael Spinks, Tyson was the supposed 'undisputed' champion, but he didn't become the linear champion until he beat Spinks!

Because Spinks had defeated Larry Holmes, and was therefore THE Champion.

gilgamesh wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
He beat several other titleholders during his reign. Several of whom were the divisions #1 or #2 contender at the time of him beating them. The Lineal Heavyweight Title was vacant because Lennox Lewis had retired as Champion, Wladimir Klitschko was the first guy after his retirement to basically clean out the division of all noteworthy contenders.

He didn't fight his brother or Wilder though.

Wilder didn't become relevant until the back end of his reign. Wladimir Klitschko had already established himself as THE Champion before Wilder was even in the Top 10

And as for not fighting his brother. It's ridiculous to have ever expected that of him.

I never expected him to, but then Wlad being the man was questionable.

gilgamesh wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:To be honest, there have been many breaks in lineage of the HW championship & as such, the linear title has often been bestowed upon the man who was the best around at the time because that man hadn't had the opportunity to face the previous linear champion.

The alphabet boys haven't helped; in fact, they have often clouded the situation.

When Mike Tyson faced Michael Spinks, Tyson was the supposed 'undisputed' champion, but he didn't become the linear champion until he beat Spinks!

Because Spinks had defeated Larry Holmes, and was therefore THE Champion.

Exactly.

The Alphabet Boys totally clouded that one, so much so that the world thought Tyson was defending the title against Spinks.

Boxing is truly bonkers.

ikorolev wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

ikorolev wrote:
He didn't fight his brother or Wilder though.

Wilder didn't become relevant until the back end of his reign. Wladimir Klitschko had already established himself as THE Champion before Wilder was even in the Top 10

And as for not fighting his brother. It's ridiculous to have ever expected that of him.

I never expected him to, but then Wlad being the man was questionable.

Considering he beat significantly better fighters than his brother, I don't think so.