BoxRec

A recent thread has highlighted how different people view things.

Reggaereggae & TunaJim think that only white people can be English. Obviously there's a lot of views on this. Both these gents have views & I respect what they think.

I disagree. However, I am open minded enough to admit to being wrong so let's see what the poll says.

But this poll doesn't mean anyone is wrong. I just want to know if I am alone in thinking that non-whites can call themselves "British"

He's both. Nigerian descent but born and raised in England.

Same as Chisora, even though he was born in Zimbabwe, I consider him a British boxer and considering his entrance attire is a giant ninja costume made from the Union Jack I'd say he considers himself British too.

And Eubank, he's I think Jamaican descent but come on, he's the most British man in the world.

Joshua is whatever he wants to be, that he was born in England and sees himself as English (and British) then he would have solid
grounds to label himself as English and British.

If a white person from the United States was told they weren't a 'true American' because they don't have any native blood in them, they
would be extremely offended. You know this better than anyone Taansend - living over there.

My views on personal identity is that it is exactly what it is - it is personal - in the case of an Irish-American who wants to label themselves Irish, it would take someone very petty and mean to argue the toss over it in my opinion, but in the case of Joshua - he was born in the UK, he lives here, he sees himself as such - that should be good enough for anyone.

If he's born and raised in the UK then he's Brittish, with Nigerian relatives. Somehow he isn't fully raised in the UK, which makes it hard to say. Let's say he is both, but his main language is English, I think he's also thinking in English, so let's call him Brittish.

Fat Git wrote:Joshua is whatever he wants to be, that he was born in England and sees himself as English (and British) then he would have solid
grounds to label himself as English and British.

If a white person from the United States was told they weren't a 'true American' because they don't have any native blood in them, they
would be extremely offended. You know this better than anyone Taansend - living over there.

My views on personal identity is that it is exactly what it is - it is personal - in the case of an Irish-American who wants to label themselves Irish, it would take someone very petty and mean to argue the toss over it in my opinion, but in the case of Joshua - he was born in the UK, he lives here, he sees himself as such - that should be good enough for anyone.

Londoner.

Fat Git wrote:Joshua is whatever he wants to be, that he was born in England and sees himself as English (and British) then he would have solid
grounds to label himself as English and British.

If a white person from the United States was told they weren't a 'true American' because they don't have any native blood in them, they
would be extremely offended. You know this better than anyone Taansend - living over there.

My views on personal identity is that it is exactly what it is - it is personal - in the case of an Irish-American who wants to label themselves Irish, it would take someone very petty and mean to argue the toss over it in my opinion, but in the case of Joshua - he was born in the UK, he lives here, he sees himself as such - that should be good enough for anyone.

Well said.

Be Happy he is ENGLISH! Dang! 2: "Wilkinson"/my name/ "big time England!" [I'm American 1/2 English 1/4 German 1/4 Scotch]
"English blood", that's true...Caucasian people but/world mixed good now! Be proud he calls himself English! [I've visited London 5X only place in England I have ever been other than the train ride and Dover, the channel boat over. Love London!]

Taansend wrote:Reggaereggae & TunaJim think that only white people can be English. Obviously there's a lot of views on this. Both these gents have views & I respect what they think.

Why would you respect that?

tigermoth87 wrote: And Eubank, he's I think Jamaican descent but come on, he's the most British man in the world.

He even changed his name to English !

Joshua is British, he was born here, lived most of his life here and, although clearly proud of his Nigerian heritage (hence the tattoo on his shoulder), he identifies himself as british and he represented team GB with pride as an ameteur.

It isn't always that simple though. Tyson Fury, for example, was also born and raised in the UK, but has more than once referred to himself as Irish.

Nationality isn't always clear cut and it is very narrow minded to pigeonhole someone based solely on skin colour, or religion, or heritage, but people still do.

Nationality has to be looked at on an individual basis.

Personally I think judging someones nationality based on skin colour is ridiculous especially if that person was born and raised in the country being questioned.

I always think that where you spend your formative years, makes your identity.

In Joshua's case, he clearly sees himself as a Londoner, and an Englishman, but probably also considers himself Nigerian as he spent some of his formative years there and has family from there. That's quite normal. I'm proud of my Irish heritage, as everyone in my family was Irish, before my mum and aunt moved over here and had kids.

I'm not sure why some people are so determined that he can't call himself British, - if you identify yourself with somewhere, live there, work there, have friends there, and have built a life there, then in my book, no matter where you were Born, you've the right to call yourself British.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I always think that where you spend your formative years, makes your identity.

In Joshua's case, he clearly sees himself as a Londoner, and an Englishman, but probably also considers himself Nigerian as he spent some of his formative years there and has family from there. That's quite normal. I'm proud of my Irish heritage, as everyone in my family was Irish, before my mum and aunt moved over here and had kids.

I'm not sure why some people are so determined that he can't call himself British, - if you identify yourself with somewhere, live there, work there, have friends there, and have built a life there, then in my book, no matter where you were Born, you've the right to call yourself British.

Definitely agree with that. That's all nationality is, really.

I picked English, British and Humble

Taaansend I've got to say, your previous comment about the 'leftists' and people's liberal attitude, which means that someone who lived in a country for a single year then would be identified as being of that nationality, is clearly utter horseshite, nobody with half a brain cell, left or right wing, would believe that for a second, it just makes no sense does it? Identity and nationality is far more complex than that.

I'm a committed socialist, consider myself a liberal, my grandfather was a labour member of parliament, and not for a second would I consider that you become part of a culture just by dint of living there for a short space of time.

I'll tell you what's really confusing about nationality. James McCarthy the Everton player was born and raised in Glasgow. His mother and father were born and raised in Glasgow. He played all his football in Scotland until he signed for Wigan - but he plays for Ireland ??

Boxing question - Dave Charnley's mother and father and older brother were born in Scotland. When the family moved to Dartford his mother was pregnant with him. He was born in Dartford. Was he Scottish or English?

Aj has a holiday home in Rhyl so he's clearly Welsh.

dalcumly wrote:I'll tell you what's really confusing about nationality. James McCarthy the Everton player was born and raised in Glasgow. His mother and father were born and raised in Glasgow. He played all his football in Scotland until he signed for Wigan - but he plays for Ireland ??

Boxing question - Dave Charnley's mother and father and older brother were born in Scotland. When the family moved to Dartford his mother was pregnant with him. He was born in Dartford. Was he Scottish or English?

Identity is not a black and white issue, you can be of more than one identity, a lot of Scottish people have affinity for Ireland. A lot of English people have an affinity for Ireland, which is why Ireland get their support during a world cup, especially around the North West of England.

If Charnley saw himself as English or Scottish - that would be OK by me and most right thinking people I imagine, the only people who seem to have a big problem with the concept are people who have a monocultural family background.

And just to finish on the footballing theme and nationalty - how many of you knew that Andy Carroll was eligible to play for Scotland ? I wish I knew 10 Years ago !!

PredatorHayds wrote:Aj has a holiday home in Rhyl so he's clearly Welsh.

I read he likes to kick back with some shortbread and Irn Bru blood. He is Scotch fam. Recognize.

dalcumly wrote:And just to finish on the footballing theme and nationalty - how many of you knew that Andy Carroll was eligible to play for Scotland ? I wish I knew 10 Years ago !!

I didn't know that no. I'd have taken him in a heart beat. But naw we're stuck wae lugs Fletcher up top! Brutal!

dalcumly wrote:I'll tell you what's really confusing about nationality. James McCarthy the Everton player was born and raised in Glasgow. His mother and father were born and raised in Glasgow. He played all his football in Scotland until he signed for Wigan - but he plays for Ireland ??

Boxing question - Dave Charnley's mother and father and older brother were born in Scotland. When the family moved to Dartford his mother was pregnant with him. He was born in Dartford. Was he Scottish or English?

McCarthy comes from a republican family so because of that he probably takes more pride running out for Ireland than he does for us. I think he was overlooked as a schoolboy by our national set up whereas Ireland stepped in and looked after him. His prerogative and our loss but it's hard to get your head round. Same with McGeady. There's plenty like them in Glasgow and the surrounding areas.

I think Scott Cardles Family is Scottish and he was brought up down south. He still actually sounds Scottish when you hear him. I remember him as a young boy over at Scott Harrison's gym along with his dad.

Joshua was born in Watford so that automatically makes him English, British, and humble.

On the wider subject of nationality and sport... I find it absurd that the England cricket team has an Irish captain, and players from South Africa etc. We used to nab the occasional talented Scottish cricketer as well - and then send them back when they were no good. I was delighted when the West Indies beat them in the baseball tournament recently.

Dixonian wrote:Joshua was born in Watford so that automatically makes him English, British, and humble.

On the wider subject of nationality and sport... I find it absurd that the England cricket team has an Irish captain, and players from South Africa etc. We used to nab the occasional talented Scottish cricketer as well - and then send them back when they were no good. I was delighted when the West Indies beat them in the baseball tournament recently.

Frankie Boyle once described cricket as a homosexual martial art He also once tweeted 'Ireland has a cricket team?' 'This is like cool runnings'