BoxRec

easy to look great against easy opponents.
top fighters look for top opposition and he
does not.

I do partially agree with you. For his last 5 fights he should have been cleaning out the flyweight division, but instead he's faced guys in the lower half of the top 10 or even outside it, which is a very disappointing level of opposition for a guy people are calling #1 P4P.

On the other hand, I think he's brilliant to watch, and he did KO Yaegashi who was definitely one of the top 2 or 3 flyweights at the time.

Just beat a guy that many had beating Amnat Ruenroeng in Thailand, the same Amnat who beat Ioka...oh and Roman has a win over the other top flyweight, and beat the then linear champion

Did we really need a third thread on that ?

He's made like 20 title defenses in 3 weight classes, so....

ikorolev wrote:Did we really need a third thread on that ?

oh yes, we did.

gilgamesh wrote:He's made like 20 title defenses in 3 weight classes, so....

number vs quality

if i interpret the boxrec system correctly
then he frequently fights opponents outside
the top ten. look at the the top ten p4p here
on boxrec ... very different story.

man wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:He's made like 20 title defenses in 3 weight classes, so....

number vs quality

if i interpret the boxrec system correctly
then he frequently fights opponents outside
the top ten. look at the the top ten p4p here
on boxrec ... very different story.

Gonzalez has also fought loads of top ten opponents though.

I believe that his relatively low BoxRec P4P ranking is due to the system allocating a fairly low number of points to the lowest divisions because they are populated by fewer competitors. I can see the logic behind that and the size of a talent pool is not irrelevant to it's quality, but in some cases it can lead to fighters like Gonzalez--whether P4P #1 or not--being ranked too low; I don't buy for a second that a fighter like Postol has accomplished more and/or is a superior fighter P4P.

On several critics P4P Top 10 lists Juan Francisco Estrada is ranked, and Gonzalez beat him handily. It was a competitive fight, but the winner wasn't in doubt. That says a lot about his abilities. Gonzalez has one of the most consistent attacks I've seen, I think the only way to beat him is to catch him coming in and take him out with a KO shot. I doubt you'd be able to outhustle him to a 12 round decision at this stage of his career.

man wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:He's made like 20 title defenses in 3 weight classes, so....

number vs quality

if i interpret the boxrec system correctly
then he frequently fights opponents outside
the top ten. look at the the top ten p4p here
on boxrec ... very different story.

LOL, using Boxrec's p4p ratings is akin to throwing darts at pictures. Huge bias against the smaller guys. He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

I like Gonzo but I don't think that's a supportable statement. These are his best wins:

@105
Niida (2008): Solid fighter but only really "elite" in a very thin 105 pound divison.
Takayama (2009): Same as above.

@108
Estrada (2012): Quality win but only 22 years old and not the fighter he has since developed into.

@112
Yaegashi (2014): Fantastic win, no question.
Sosa (2015): In his mid-30s when the fight happened, way past his prime.
Viloria (2015): Same as above.

Compare this to Floyd, who in the first decade of his career fought Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Corely, Gatti, N'Dou, Mitchell, and Judah, almost all of whom were in their primes.

jujigatame wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

I like Gonzo but I don't think that's a supportable statement. These are his best wins:

@105
Niida (2008): Solid fighter but only really "elite" in a very thin 105 pound divison.
Takayama (2009): Same as above.

@108
Estrada (2012): Quality win but only 22 years old and not the fighter he has since developed into.

@112
Yaegashi (2014): Fantastic win, no question.
Sosa (2015): In his mid-30s when the fight happened, way past his prime.
Viloria (2015): Same as above.

Compare this to Floyd, who in the first decade of his career fought Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Corely, Gatti, N'Dou, Mitchell, and Judah, almost all of whom were in their primes.

Lower weight classes just don't have such a number of good opponents.

canelo
http://boxrec.com/boxer/348759

pac
http://boxrec.com/boxer/6129

floyd
http://boxrec.com/boxer/352

GGG
http://boxrec.com/boxer/356831

gonzalez
http://boxrec.com/boxer/319725

if i interpret the stars correctly, that
indicates that canelo, pac, floyd and
even GGG faced more top ten opponents,
despite gonzalez being in his unbeaten
prime and having quite numerous title
defenses.

i am not indicating gonzalez is not great,
i make the case he is not P4P no 1 here on
boxrec for a reason and it is much easier to
look great against non top ten opponents.

crusader wrote:Gonzalez has also fought loads of top ten opponents though.

i thought the 5stars indicate facing a
top ten opponent. i might be wrong. if
i am not he faced 1 top ten.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/319725

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

you can back that up?

Roman tweeted:

@chocolatitobox : I want to fight with @CuadrasOficial , Francisco Estrada or Arroyo. I want to fight all of them.

Those are good opponents. I would be happy with any of them.

jujigatame wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

I like Gonzo but I don't think that's a supportable statement. These are his best wins:

@105
Niida (2008): Solid fighter but only really "elite" in a very thin 105 pound divison.
Takayama (2009): Same as above.

@108
Estrada (2012): Quality win but only 22 years old and not the fighter he has since developed into.

@112
Yaegashi (2014): Fantastic win, no question.
Sosa (2015): In his mid-30s when the fight happened, way past his prime.
Viloria (2015): Same as above.

Compare this to Floyd, who in the first decade of his career fought Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, Castillo, Corely, Gatti, N'Dou, Mitchell, and Judah, almost all of whom were in their primes.

Floyd is retired. While Sosa and Viloria have seen better days, that's HBO using somewhat familiar names to build his brand.

man wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

you can back that up?

It's obvious if you follow the weight classes instead of computer rankings.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

man wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's faced better opposition than just about anyone in the sport.

you can back that up?

It's obvious if you follow the weight classes instead of computer rankings.

Really? You gonna tell me Sosa and Viloria weren't way past it when Gonzalez KO'd them?

jujigatame wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

man wrote: you can back that up?

It's obvious if you follow the weight classes instead of computer rankings.

Really? You gonna tell me Sosa and Viloria weren't way past it when Gonzalez KO'd them?

LOL, didn't I just say they were past it? Arroyo is quite good. Today's resumes are paper thin, are you going to tell me his isn't near the top?

Arroyo's entire claim to fame is a close loss to Ruenroeng. The rest of his opponents have been woeful and I even remember him losing as a prospect to some nobody on a Fox Deportes card.

Arroyo's resume is rice paper. At least give me construction paper.

jujigatame wrote:Arroyo's entire claim to fame is a close loss to Ruenroeng. The rest of his opponents have been woeful and I even remember him losing as a prospect to some nobody on a Fox Deportes card.

Arroyo's resume is rice paper. At least give me construction paper.

I'm talking about Gonzalez.

jujigatame wrote:Arroyo's entire claim to fame is a close loss to Ruenroeng. The rest of his opponents have been woeful and I even remember him losing as a prospect to some nobody on a Fox Deportes card.

Arroyo's resume is rice paper. At least give me construction paper.

His claims to fame also include a world Amateur gold, and a VERY good win over the much touted Saludar.