BoxRec

what i mean by overall quality is the basic-technic/power/speed/defence etc. not so much record/resume, because it would be unfair cause some middleweight are still boxing and have time left to build up the record, other are finished at middleweight and had time and chance to face name fighters.

i put some names in the mix, all prime, all middleweight version!: X, Pavlik, Abraham, Martinez, GGG, Taylor

for me

1. GGG
2. Martinez
3. X
4. Abraham
5. Pavlik
6. Taylor

X is Hopkins?

Hops has to be top surely? GGG could match him is all the contenders and champions grow enough balls to fight him.

Nightmare Roy wrote:Hops has to be top surely? GGG could match him is all the contenders and champions grow enough balls to fight him.

If GGG adds Canelo, BJS, Jacobs and Eubank Jr or comparable opponents, he will surpass Hopkins.

Chepppaaa wrote:what i mean by overall quality is the basic-technic/power/speed/defence etc. not so much record/resume, because it would be unfair cause some middleweight are still boxing and have time left to build up the record, other are finished at middleweight and had time and chance to face name fighters.

i put some names in the mix, all prime, all middleweight version!: X, Pavlik, Abraham, Martinez, GGG, Taylor

for me

1. GGG
2. Martinez
3. X
4. Abraham
5. Pavlik
6. Taylor

Currently I would say

BHop
GGG
Martinez
Pavlik
Abraham
Taylor

jezzamundo wrote:X is Hopkins?

is this a serious question

He was probably confused because you had 'X' below Sergio martinez.

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. GGG
3. Martinez
4. Taylor
5. Abraham
6. Pavlik

I know Pavlik beat Taylor twice, but I thought Taylor had a better overall Championship reign. Plus Pavlik was nearly shutout by Hopkins whom Taylor enjoys 2 wins over.

I thought Martinez had a more impressive reign than Taylor, Abraham or Pavlik at Middleweight, but I wouldn't be surprised to see any of the 3 of them beat him at their respective bests, but still with his win over Pavlik and the solid title defenses he made you'd have to give him the slight edge I think over those 3.

GGG is rapidly closing in on Hopkins as a better Middleweight, but he still needs some more defining wins to eclipse the B-Hop.

1. Hopkins
2. GGG
3. Taylor
4. Martinez
5. Pavlik
6. Abraham

Chepppaaa wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:X is Hopkins?

is this a serious question

Semi-serious - I think you're the only person I've ever seen call Hopkins X. Short for executioner I assume?

Hopkins
GGG
Martinez
Abraham
Pavlik
Taylor

These 6 boxers are clearly split into 2 divisions. The top division:
1. Hopkins
2. Golovkin
3. Martinez

And then the second division (which is more difficult to rank)
4. Taylor
5. Pavlik
6. Abraham

Pavlik obviously beat Taylor twice, but for me Taylor's performances against Hopkins proved that he could hang at a higher level, whereas Pavlik's ceiling was much lower as he got schooled by Hopkins. Both of their primes were pretty short. Although Abraham has outlasted both Taylor and Pavlik, if we're judging them purely as middleweights then 2 wins over Miranda aren't quite enough to put him above the others, even if the one with a broken jaw took huge balls.

EDIT - Thinking about it, Taylor vs Abraham 2 years earlier (pre-Pavlik) would have been a very good fight, as would Pavlik vs Abraham instead of Pavlik vs Lockett, just before Bernard took him to the cleaners.

Chepppaaa wrote:what i mean by overall quality is the basic-technic/power/speed/defence etc. not so much record/resume, because it would be unfair cause some middleweight are still boxing and have time left to build up the record, other are finished at middleweight and had time and chance to face name fighters.

i put some names in the mix, all prime, all middleweight version!: X, Pavlik, Abraham, Martinez, GGG, Taylor

for me

1. GGG
2. Martinez
3. X
4. Abraham
5. Pavlik
6. Taylor

It's really hard to determine who is better and who would win a fight between GGG and prime middleweight Hopkins. I could see GGG's superior workrate, offensive skills and power giving him the edge, but I could just as easily see Hopkins' superior handspeed, inside fighting and defense winning him a decision. For me they are equal #1 until we've seen GGG prove his skills against some stiffer competition.

Martinez is the next best - the fastest and most athletic of the bunch, but also the only natural 154lb fighter, not the smartest and with the second worst durability after Taylor.

Next is Pavlik - he's technically inferior to Taylor in most ways, but his superior power, stamina and durability give him the edge. On the other hand, he was outclassed by guys with great boxing skills (Hopkins) and superior athleticism (Martinez).

I put Taylor next because while he lost to Abraham, he was already damaged good by then and was competitive until being stopped. Very good boxing skills, and the second fastest and second most athletic of the bunch. Unfortunately his stamina and durability let him down at the highest level - things that didn't matter too much against the low workrate and average power of a post-prime Hopkins.

Abraham is last, despite having good power, durability and defense, he is the easiest to outbox of the bunch and doesn't have Pavlik's workrate.

1= Hopkins
1= GGG
3. Martinez
4. Pavlik
5. Taylor
6. Abraham

I know you didn't ask for it, but... based on resumes to date:

1. Hopkins
2. Martinez
3. GGG
4. Abraham
5. Pavlik
6. Taylor

crusader wrote:1. Hopkins
2. GGG
3. Taylor
4. Martinez
5. Pavlik
6. Abraham

That looks about right.

if its based on skills and not resume then taylor is too low on most of these lists

Tony1244 wrote:

crusader wrote:1. Hopkins
2. GGG
3. Taylor
4. Martinez
5. Pavlik
6. Abraham

That looks about right.

Taylor lost to the two guys below him in 3 fights and two by KO

And Pavlik got totally schooled by a guy Taylor beat twice...it doesn't fit together neatly. I also don't think Taylor was at his best when AA beat him at 168.

List #1 (Based on accomplishment @ MW)

Hops
GGG
Martinez
Taylor
Pavlik
Abraham


List #2 (Based on who I feel was/is the best @ MW)

GGG
Hops
Martinez
Pavlik
Abraham
Taylor

crusader wrote:And Pavlik got totally schooled by a guy Taylor beat twice...it doesn't fit together neatly. I also don't think Taylor was at his best when AA beat him at 168.

Getting KO twice is much worse than getting schooled by all time great

Pavlik wins over Miranda and Taylor where clear and in terms of actual in ring work those win are so much impressive then two fights vs Hopkins were
neither did nothing and terrible fights to score and watch.

I don't think any win over Miranda stacks up to the two wins over Hopkins.

The JT-Hopkins fights may have been hard to watch, but Taylor won plenty of rounds and of course two fights against someone who embarrassed Pavlik. Ranking fighters isn't as simple as who won a head to head, especially when you deal with cases where one was further from their prime than the other. Now I actually think it's very arguable when it comes to who had the most ability between prime Taylor, Martinez, and Pavlik, but for me AA is a clear last.

crusader wrote:I don't think any win over Miranda stacks up to the two wins over Hopkins.

The JT-Hopkins fights may have been hard to watch, but Taylor won plenty of rounds and of course two fights against someone who embarrassed Pavlik. Ranking fighters isn't as simple as who won a head to head, especially when you deal with cases where one was further from their prime than the other. Now I actually think it's very arguable when it comes to who had the most ability between prime Taylor, Martinez, and Pavlik, but for me AA is a clear last.

It only trumps Pavlik wins in name. The fights were sh**. At least Pavlik did things with the jab and the right hand and had a good chin. Taylor had nothing but athletic talent. Every other big fight Taylor had he failed. To me AA would have beat Taylor at anytime. Taylor at his best did nohing really good and has stand wins in terms of in ring. Hopkins by name only is only why he would be considered higher and to me couldn't and didn't beat anyone on this list.

1. GGG.. 2. Hopkins.. 3 Martinez..4 Pavlik.. 5 Abraham..6 Taylor

Historically -- 1. Gennady Golovkin.. 2. Carlos Monzon.. 3. Bernard Hopkins.. 4. Roy Jones.. 5. James Toney.. 6. Mike McCallum.. 7. Michael Nunn.. 8. Mike Gibbons.. 9. Stanley Ketchel.. 10. Mickey Walker

Kalan wrote:1. GGG.. 2. Hopkins.. 3 Martinez..4 Pavlik.. 5 Abraham..6 Taylor

Historically -- 1. Gennady Golovkin.. 2. Carlos Monzon.. 3. Bernard Hopkins.. 4. Roy Jones.. 5. James Toney.. 6. Mike McCallum.. 7. Michael Nunn.. 8. Mike Gibbons.. 9. Stanley Ketchel.. 10. Mickey Walker

No Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler or Harry Greb but Michael Nunn is in there?

world ranked wrote: The fights were sh**. At least Pavlik did things with the jab and the right hand and had a good chin. Taylor had nothing but athletic talent. Every other big fight Taylor had he failed. To me AA would have beat Taylor at anytime. Taylor at his best did nohing really good and has stand wins in terms of in ring

I agree... Hopkins won the 2 Taylor fights. B-Hop landed more punches, more power punches and hurt Taylor. The judging was corrupt as Hell. Duane Ford even said "I blew it" when he was called before the Boxing Commission to explain his scoring of the 12th and deciding round in the first fight. Hopkins dominated the scoring that round but Taylor NEEDED that round on Ford's card to win the title. Hopkins was 40 and 41 years old, but he beat Taylor. Pavlik beat Taylor twice with ease. Jabbed the crap out of him. They couldn't rob him. Winky Wright also certainly beat Taylor by a closer margin but I laughed at the scores. That's Lou Dibella.

A couple of things that aren't widely known about the Hopkins-Pavlik fight. Pavlik was suffering form Bronchitis and was loaded with antibiotics. Pavlik also suffered from a badly swollen bursa sac on his left elbow and couldn't jab. HIs coach pressured him into going through with the fight because it was millions of dollars and "You can't lose to this old man. Taylor beat him twice and your title isn't at risk." If you talk to Kelly he'll say it was the worst fight of his life. His arms felt like they weighed a 100 pounds each and he couldn't throw. He was developing a lot of medical problems and personal problems, including a drinking problem that wrecked his career. Hopkins was a better middleweight than Pavlik, but no way and old Hopkins beats the Kelly Pavlik of the Miranda fight or the first Taylor fight.