BoxRec

There were a lot of things wrong with Ali that night and Spinks was still focused and fresh. Just wondering which Lineal Champions Leon would have had a chance of beating?

I'd pick him over Shannon Briggs, Tommy Burns, Marvin Hart and Carnera.

I'd give him a chance vs Buster (vs Holyfield), Willard and Rahman (vs Lewis II)

Any thoughts?

Marvin Hart & that's about it & I'm not even confident about that.

I can't see him having a prayer against Rahman, Douglas or Briggs; not 100% certain about the others.

Leon Spinks should never even have fought for the HW title, let alone won it.

I know Ali was past his best & probably in the early stages of Parkinson's, but as we saw in the rematch, he still had enough to beat Spinks.

If Spinks is disciplined (and that's a BIG if) he'd beat all the pre-Louis heavyweight champions save for Johnson.

Most of them were small guys by modern standards so Spinks wouldn't be outsized.

Leon had a lot of skill, speed and decent power. But little focus.

If he could harness himself mentally (like brother Michael) the 200 lb. Leon would have been a tough nut for any of the old time champs to crack.

SenorPipino wrote:If Spinks is disciplined (and that's a BIG if) he'd beat all the pre-Louis heavyweight champions save for Johnson.

Most of them were small guys by modern standards so Spinks wouldn't be outsized.

Leon had a lot of skill, speed and decent power. But little focus.

If he could harness himself mentally (like brother Michael) the 200 lb. Leon would have been a tough nut for any of the old time champs to crack.

You pick him to beat Jack Dempsey?

There were a lot of things wrong with Ali that night and Spinks was still focused and fresh. Just wondering which Lineal Champions Leon would have had a chance of beating?

I'd pick him over Shannon Briggs, Tommy Burns, Marvin Hart and Carnera.

I'd give him a chance vs Buster (vs Holyfield), Willard and Rahman (vs Lewis II)

Any thoughts?

Carnera unfailingly get presented as the division's most useless yet hugely fortunate oaf....

......be really grateful if someone could 'objectively' explain whether he had any ability whatsoever or if all his fights were just put-up jobs with various, violent betting syndicates pulling all the levers and making sure better opponents somehow lost.

Don't want to drag us off topic...but Carnera perplexes me a bit. A total Mob-creation or could he actually fight; even just a bit?

Happy to start a new thread btw...as I realise this could drag us away from Leon!

Yes Carnera could fight a bit. Most of the fixed fights were against no-names. Because you could bet on how many rounds a fight would last, bad fighters were paid to take a dive early. Carnera would have beaten them anyway.

He was no legend, but he has enough decent results against top fighters of his day to show he was decent.

The Spinks from the first Ali fight would beat Carnera. The Spinks from the 2nd Ali fight probably would not.

Hart is the only one that I would pick Spinks to beat; though it would not be easy. If he fought close to ability, I would give him a serious chance again Burns, Braddock, Rahman, or Briggs if you want to count him.

Schemling, Baer and Sharkey were inconsistent and Spinks could beat them if they were off their game. He could have beat the early version of Walcott.

Bodyshot3 wrote:

There were a lot of things wrong with Ali that night and Spinks was still focused and fresh. Just wondering which Lineal Champions Leon would have had a chance of beating?

I'd pick him over Shannon Briggs, Tommy Burns, Marvin Hart and Carnera.

I'd give him a chance vs Buster (vs Holyfield), Willard and Rahman (vs Lewis II)

Any thoughts?

Carnera unfailingly get presented as the division's most useless yet hugely fortunate oaf....

......be really grateful if someone could 'objectively' explain whether he had any ability whatsoever or if all his fights were just put-up jobs with various, violent betting syndicates pulling all the levers and making sure better opponents somehow lost.

Don't want to drag us off topic...but Carnera perplexes me a bit. A total Mob-creation or could he actually fight; even just a bit?

Happy to start a new thread btw...as I realise this could drag us away from Leon!

He would have been a problem for Wlad.

Spinks at his best was not a complete Joke, but his career ended up kinda/sorta as a joke, because he could not sustain his learning curve and devolved pretty quickly. He really did love his distractions more than his craft.

Come to think of it, on the subject of "sustained peak performance" he makes Riddick Bowe look like Joe Louis.

Thank you Ambling....appreciated.

I can see him beating the guys you mentioned Keith except for Briggs. I think Briggs would stop him.

I figure Rahman and Buster Douglas would beat him.

Not sure about Jess Willard. I'd probably favor Willard, but not by much.

He'd upset a few. That night he was very good, diminished as Ali was he landed a lot of leather and Leon must have tossed at least 1,300 punches. I'd take a bet on him against burns, Corbett, Fitz or Sullivan.

I don't know he earned the title, but Leon could outwork wlad.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't know he earned the title, but Leon could outwork wlad.

I don't doubt he could outwork him, but I can't help but think Wladimir wears him down and catches him with a KO shot late.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't know he earned the title, but Leon could outwork wlad.

I don't doubt he could outwork him, but I can't help but think Wladimir wears him down and catches him with a KO shot late.

Maybe, Leon could actually fight inside. The first and foremost offense of jab and hug wouldn't work. Spinks probably threw more punches in the 15th Rd against Ali than 'prime' wlad ever threw in 5 rounds. If they fought 10 times wlad wins 8 or 9, but the spinks from that night would be a handful for the pussygiant.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:If Spinks is disciplined (and that's a BIG if) he'd beat all the pre-Louis heavyweight champions save for Johnson.

Most of them were small guys by modern standards so Spinks wouldn't be outsized.

Leon had a lot of skill, speed and decent power. But little focus.

If he could harness himself mentally (like brother Michael) the 200 lb. Leon would have been a tough nut for any of the old time champs to crack.

You pick him to beat Jack Dempsey?

This one's almost too easy.

Dempsey would never have fought Neon Leon. Remember Harry Wills?

Nice to see though, that a lot of you guys believe Spinks would stand a chance against a number of heavyweight champions.

He became a joke but pre-Ali he demonstrated a lot of toughness and skill for an undersized guy.

Somewhere between Las Vegas and the Superdome, Leon totally lost his way in the sport, but coming up, he wasn't chopped liver.