BoxRec

if the fight was made today, who wins?

Groves has a mental block that I don't see being rectified before Smith. Smith to win a good fight. Probably on points but possibly by KO.

Smith for me. Didn't really look impressive tonight but I think it was more a case of making sloppy mistakes because he had literally no respect for the other man's power with him being so much bigger. He'd be switched on against Groves like he was against Fielding and Mohoumadi and while Groves is a level above those, I think Callum would still have too much.

ElJefe wrote:Smith for me. Didn't really look impressive tonight but I think it was more a case of making sloppy mistakes because he had literally no respect for the other man's power with him being so much bigger. He'd be switched on against Groves like he was against Fielding and Mohoumadi and while Groves is a level above those, I think Callum would still have too much.

Ya, Smith's lackluster showing tonight hasn't changed my outlook because I think he was probably unmotivated and knew he could get away with being sloppy. He's had a similar showing in the past when he went the full ten with fragile journeyman Vladine Biosse, but he turned it up for the fights that mattered.

I do think think that the little guy being able to tag him highlights a basic, head movement free defense that has been shown in other fights though, and I don't think Callum's guard is as tight as most fighters who pull that off succesfully. I imagine that a fighter like Groves could find the target fairly often, though I still like Smith to grind him down eventually.

Does a win over Murray for Groves sway anything?

I'd go with Callum. For the record they kept saying during Arthur Abraham's fight that they think George Groves could beat Abraham. I don't think so. Abraham's greatest strength is Groves' greatest weakness.

I still think Smith and probably a late KO. Groves wasn't hard to hit against Murray and Smith can whack. Think I'd rather see Smith v Jack and DeGale v Groves 2 with the winners facing off. Wouldn't be surprised to see AA take on Groves next though.

gilgamesh wrote:I'd go with Callum. For the record they kept saying during Arthur Abraham's fight that they think George Groves could beat Abraham. I don't think so. Abraham's greatest strength is Groves' greatest weakness.

I think groves v AA would be very close but I'd just about favour groves if he boxes at range and out works AA. Unless Arthur actually works at a decent tempo which is fairly rare.

Finn wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I'd go with Callum. For the record they kept saying during Arthur Abraham's fight that they think George Groves could beat Abraham. I don't think so. Abraham's greatest strength is Groves' greatest weakness.

I think groves v AA would be very close but I'd just about favour groves if he boxes at range and out works AA. Unless Arthur actually works at a decent tempo which is fairly rare.

I figure Groves would win the first 6 or 7 rounds, I just think Abraham would knock him out late in the fight. AA gets stronger as the fight goes on. Groves gets weaker.

gilgamesh wrote:

Finn wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I'd go with Callum. For the record they kept saying during Arthur Abraham's fight that they think George Groves could beat Abraham. I don't think so. Abraham's greatest strength is Groves' greatest weakness.

I think groves v AA would be very close but I'd just about favour groves if he boxes at range and out works AA. Unless Arthur actually works at a decent tempo which is fairly rare.

I figure Groves would win the first 6 or 7 rounds, I just think Abraham would knock him out late in the fight. AA gets stronger as the fight goes on. Groves gets weaker.

Even against a fighter who isn't pressuring him or fighting for several rounds? Groves could win that fight at a canter unless Abraham catches him late on, and he doesn't always.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Finn wrote: I think groves v AA would be very close but I'd just about favour groves if he boxes at range and out works AA. Unless Arthur actually works at a decent tempo which is fairly rare.

I figure Groves would win the first 6 or 7 rounds, I just think Abraham would knock him out late in the fight. AA gets stronger as the fight goes on. Groves gets weaker.

Even against a fighter who isn't pressuring him or fighting for several rounds? Groves could win that fight at a canter unless Abraham catches him late on, and he doesn't always.

I agree that Groves would win at a canter, in a similar fashion to how Froch did it.

Stuarty30 wrote:Groves has a mental block that I don't see being rectified before Smith. Smith to win a good fight. Probably on points but possibly by KO.

Define mental block? I'm genuinely interested in the reasons for you thinking GG has that.

Either his confidence in his stamina, his general confidence in winning against top fighters, or both, have gone.

By the way I still think its worth mentioning, nobody else has come close to doing to Paul smith what GG did to him.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Finn wrote: I think groves v AA would be very close but I'd just about favour groves if he boxes at range and out works AA. Unless Arthur actually works at a decent tempo which is fairly rare.

I figure Groves would win the first 6 or 7 rounds, I just think Abraham would knock him out late in the fight. AA gets stronger as the fight goes on. Groves gets weaker.

Even against a fighter who isn't pressuring him or fighting for several rounds? Groves could win that fight at a canter unless Abraham catches him late on, and he doesn't always.

Agreed. Groves would have to put in the worst performance of his career to lose to Abraham.

Abraham has lost a step or two since his super 6 days. If it was the Abraham who fought Dirrell, then I'd have some reservations..

Please add a DRAW option

Taansend wrote:Please add a DRAW option

nope. its gun to head time. everybody has a side, time to pick it...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Taansend wrote:Please add a DRAW option

nope. its gun to head time. everybody has a side, time to pick it...

I'm going to sulk

jaymitch81 wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Groves has a mental block that I don't see being rectified before Smith. Smith to win a good fight. Probably on points but possibly by KO.

Define mental block? I'm genuinely interested in the reasons for you thinking GG has that.

When a fight gets tough the doubt starts to creep in. There is obvious stamina issues there as well.

Doesn't seem as confident as he once was. Seems like he's holding something back since he got 'cobra'd'!

Groves looked sharper in his last fight than he had done for a while, but couldn't get the job done.

He won clearly but I sense there wasn't enough gas to put the foot down and close the show.

I feel Callum will edge it from what I've seen lately, he seems much fresher.

Stuarty30 wrote:

jaymitch81 wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Groves has a mental block that I don't see being rectified before Smith. Smith to win a good fight. Probably on points but possibly by KO.

Define mental block? I'm genuinely interested in the reasons for you thinking GG has that.

When a fight gets tough the doubt starts to creep in. There is obvious stamina issues there as well.

Doesn't seem as confident as he once was. Seems like he's holding something back since he got 'cobra'd'!

He has had 13 12 rounders and done the distance 5 times so don't see how that is a stamina issue. When did doubt creep in when it got tough? against who in particular?

I think Grove's big fight experience gives him the edge over Smith. Groves is probably a lot more durable than he's given credit for.

jaymitch81 wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

jaymitch81 wrote:
Define mental block? I'm genuinely interested in the reasons for you thinking GG has that.

When a fight gets tough the doubt starts to creep in. There is obvious stamina issues there as well.

Doesn't seem as confident as he once was. Seems like he's holding something back since he got 'cobra'd'!

He has had 13 12 rounders and done the distance 5 times so don't see how that is a stamina issue. When did doubt creep in when it got tough? against who in particular?

I think the Groves of today looks totally different from the Groves who fought Froch. For instance the version of Groves who fought Froch would've beaten Jack without too much trouble. The same version would've also dealt with Rebrasse, Douglin and Murray fairly handily. He visibly tired in they three fights and was caught far too often. It's as if he doesn't carry the same belief in to the ring as he once did. That to me indicates a problem mentally because he's a young man and you don't just lose it overnight at that age. Maybe I'm wrong and I had overrated him previously? That's just my take on it. He's been the 12 rounds a few times but he switches off a lot and IMO he tires.

Stuarty30 wrote:

jaymitch81 wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
When a fight gets tough the doubt starts to creep in. There is obvious stamina issues there as well.

Doesn't seem as confident as he once was. Seems like he's holding something back since he got 'cobra'd'!

He has had 13 12 rounders and done the distance 5 times so don't see how that is a stamina issue. When did doubt creep in when it got tough? against who in particular?

I think the Groves of today looks totally different from the Groves who fought Froch. For instance the version of Groves who fought Froch would've beaten Jack without too much trouble. The same version would've also dealt with Rebrasse, Douglin and Murray fairly handily. He visibly tired in they three fights and was caught far too often. It's as if he doesn't carry the same belief in to the ring as he once did. That to me indicates a problem mentally because he's a young man and you don't just lose it overnight at that age. Maybe I'm wrong and I had overrated him previously? That's just my take on it. He's been the 12 rounds a few times but he switches off a lot and IMO he tires.

I don't think he's that much different when you look at the Murray fight. Its not like Froch was that good of a boxer. He was outboxed numerous times in his career. It's no surprise that Groves outboxed him with speed and movement in the first (and second imo) fight until he got caught. His stamina was poor then and was poor before that fight and has been poor after that fight. It's down to the way he fights. Extremely explosive style, throwing everything into every punch, constantly bent at the knees - this really drains energy.

Being starched will have affected his mentality and confidence at holding a shot though. And that confidence is something that you can't ever retain once you've been sparked. So he's different but still pretty much in his physical prime for me and has very little wear and tear when you look at his overall career.