BoxRec

What happens

This one would've been a wild shootout not unlike Lyle vs Foreman I think. Tyson would've gotten off to a hot start with his quickness beating Foreman to the punch in the early rounds, but Foreman would bull him to the ropes and unload heavy shots on him to the head and body. I can see both men hitting the canvas multiple times in the first 4 rounds alone. Ultimately it would come down to a battle of wills I think, and I figure Foreman would ultimately win by KO in the 7th or 8th round of a grueling war.

Tyson was too WAY too fast for Foreman... Maybe you saw Mike Tyson-Alex Steward... Mike crushed Alex Steward in the 1st round while barely getting hit by the slow fisted swinger who couldn't tag Mike.. A year later Steward beat the daylights out of Foreman and gave him a double head it was swollen up so badly.. Foreman couldn't get away from Steward's slow, lumbering swings.. Foreman hit Steward a ton of shots but couldn't stop him -- even though Tyson softened Steward up a bit for him.

Prime Foreman is 1970's Foreman. The Foreman that fought Stewart is not Prime Foreman.

gilgamesh wrote:Prime Foreman is 1970's Foreman. The Foreman that fought Stewart is not Prime Foreman.

True.. An old Foreman was slower.. But Jimmy Young was too fast for a 70's Foreman... and so would Mike Tyson be.

How long do you think Young lasts with Mike Tyson???

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Prime Foreman is 1970's Foreman. The Foreman that fought Stewart is not Prime Foreman.

True.. An old Foreman was slower.. But Jimmy Young was too fast for a 70's Foreman... and so would Mike Tyson be.

How long do you think Young lasts with Mike Tyson???

The Foreman who fought Jimmy Young was not the prime 1970s Foreman.

I would bet the farm that the Foreman who beat Frazier and Norton would have
crushed the prime Mike Tyson. I'd also bet the Foreman who wanted Tyson right
after beating Cooney would have KO'd the Tyson of that time.

1973 Foreman knocks out 1988 Tyson in 4 rounds.

I think Tyson pre-prime has a much better chance. If the Tyson that fought Tillis showed up, I think he would box circles around Foreman style wise. Tyson with loads of movement of head and feet is a different animal. He gave boxers angles and was very difficult to hit cleanly. Also, Foreman might have opted to move more himself. Close fight anyway.

Down Goes Tyson !

Down Goes Tyson !

Down Goes Tyson !

Foreman would have intimidated the fuk out of Tyson.

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Prime Foreman is 1970's Foreman. The Foreman that fought Stewart is not Prime Foreman.

True.. An old Foreman was slower.. But Jimmy Young was too fast for a 70's Foreman... and so would Mike Tyson be.

That was not a prime Foreman.
How long do you think Young lasts with Mike Tyson???

How long do you think Douglas lasts with Foreman?

abdelfadeeli wrote:

Kalan wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Prime Foreman is 1970's Foreman. The Foreman that fought Stewart is not Prime Foreman.

True.. An old Foreman was slower.. But Jimmy Young was too fast for a 70's Foreman... and so would Mike Tyson be.

That was not a prime Foreman.
How long do you think Young lasts with Mike Tyson???

How long do you think Douglas lasts with Foreman?

It all depends if Buster was a motivated as when he fought Tyson... Or as motivated as when he fought Holyfield... Different Buster - different result. But Douglas could jab and box as well or better than Jimmy Young when he was supremely motivated -- and he was a lot bigger, taller, stronger, and a more well rounded and harder punching Heavyweight than Young at his best... But Douglas was a little like Buster Mathis when his lacked motivation. Some guys are inconsistent in their performances and Buster Douglas was one of the worst.

Kalan wrote: It all depends if Buster was a motivated as when he fought Tyson... Or as motivated as when he fought Holyfield... Different Buster - different result. But Douglas could jab and box as well or better than Jimmy Young when he was supremely motivated -- and he was a lot bigger, taller, stronger, and a more well rounded and harder punching Heavyweight than Young at his best...

Besides, he played basketball for the Coffeyville Community College Red Ravens after highschool.

but he couldn't make the NBA even as a bench warmer. He wasn't a good enough athlete and he was a shorty and small guy for Basketball

Ah yes, but Foreman's height allows him to push the smaller man away and get range.

Foreman KO's Tyson.

And not all because of physicality. Boxing is also a mind sport.....something you seem almost never take into account.

I think I know why, you think like a trainer....not a bad thing....but you can't BE your fighter.....and regardless of talent, skill, stamina, strength, there is an intangible to be factored. Something you never speak to. Foreman is mentally stronger than Tyson at this point in their shared careers, and the Foreman that fought Holyfield, would probably be enough to stop Tyson.

albeit, After weathering some difficult times in the early going.

I can see Tyson having a lot of success early,though I'm not certain. Joe was pretty good at getting in close, and it didn't work for him. Nevertheless, I can see the Tyson of the early title fights bursting to the inside and really putting a beating on Foreman. Could he knock him out though? Because if he couldn't, Foreman is certainly gonna win down the line.

Foreman by KO, Mike had better stamina but he would be mentally defeated if he was still around when George tired. Old George beats Mike too.

SamWise72 wrote:I can see Tyson having a lot of success early,though I'm not certain. Joe was pretty good at getting in close, and it didn't work for him. Nevertheless, I can see the Tyson of the early title fights bursting to the inside and really putting a beating on Foreman. Could he knock him out though? Because if he couldn't, Foreman is certainly gonna win down the line.

Tyson was not an elite infighter by any stretch of the imagination. It goes to his low ring iq, he had a couple programmed combos that created stoppages, but if they didn't work he was all too willing to hold.

BoxBuzz wrote:And not all because of physicality. Boxing is also a mind sport.....something you seem almost never take into account.

I think I know why, you think like a trainer....not a bad thing....but you can't BE your fighter.....and regardless of talent, skill, stamina, strength, there is an intangible to be factored. Something you never speak to

I'm always speaking about intangibles but you're never listening or reasoning well. If you're in the middle of 1000 miles of desert without water, and with nothing but sand dunes between you and water, and no chance of being rescued by a camel caravan, plane drop, or any other stroke of luck, and the temperature is 120 degrees Fahrenheit, it doesn't matter what kind of mental strength you have. You're not getting out alive.

Foreman fought Holyfield, Lou Saverese, and Alex Stewart - and showed a lot of mental strength - but George couldn't stop any of them... Tyson stopped Saverese and Stewart in the 1st round because he was faster, a better boxer, and could punch harder. Holyfield allowed Foreman to go 12. If he was as keyed up mentally as he was for Tyson it would have been a different fight. Holyfield was still a cruiserweight for Foreman at 208.. For Tyson he was a bigger, stronger, faster, probably PED pumped 215 and 218.. It is known that Holyfield procured PEDs under the alias "Evan Fields."

Equating Tyson with Frazier is ridiculous. Foreman was a rock hard 217 when he obliterated a fat and unmotivated 214-pound Frazier who looked like a blob -- like he hadn't trained a single day... Tyson was a rock hard 218 for his best performance, when he crushed a 212-pound Michael Spinks who beat an aging Larry Holmes twice... So although Tyson was much shorter than Foreman (giving away leverage and range which I know is important) he was just as "big and strong" at his peak - and a lot faster. Watching Tyson quickly obliterate the same slow swinging Alex Stewart who beat the crap out of Foreman a year later will show you just how much faster a peak Tyson was than Foreman. Study those fights. Tyson was too fast for bigger, taller, slower guys like Frank Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Razor Ruddock, Trevor Berbick, and George Foreman... The guys who bet the crap out of Mike were big, strong, tall, fast, athletic, and skilled boxers like Douglas and Lewis.. Foreman was NOT in that category as the Jimmy Young fight aptly proved.. Young had no punching power and gave up height - but he used his quickness to finessed Forman.. Can you imagine little Jimmy Young trying to fight the Buster Douglas or Lennox Lewis of the nights they beat Tyson????

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:And not all because of physicality. Boxing is also a mind sport.....something you seem almost never take into account.

I think I know why, you think like a trainer....not a bad thing....but you can't BE your fighter.....and regardless of talent, skill, stamina, strength, there is an intangible to be factored. Something you never speak to

I'm always speaking about intangibles but you're never listening or reasoning well. If you're in the middle of 1000 miles of desert without water, and with nothing but sand dunes between you and water, and no chance of being rescued by a camel caravan, plane drop, or any other stroke of luck, and the temperature is 120 degrees Fahrenheit, it doesn't matter what kind of mental strength you have. You're not getting out alive.

Foreman fought Holyfield, Lou Saverese, and Alex Stewart - and showed a lot of mental strength - but George couldn't stop any of them... Tyson stopped Saverese and Stewart in the 1st round because he was faster, a better boxer, and could punch harder. Holyfield allowed Foreman to go 12. If he was as keyed up mentally as he was for Tyson it would have been a different fight. Holyfield was still a cruiserweight for Foreman at 208.. For Tyson he was a bigger, stronger, faster, probably PED pumped 215 and 218.. It is known that Holyfield procured PEDs under the alias "Evan Fields."

Equating Tyson with Frazier is ridiculous. Foreman was a rock hard 217 when he obliterated a fat and unmotivated 214-pound Frazier who looked like a blob -- like he hadn't trained a single day... Tyson was a rock hard 218 for his best performance, when he crushed a 212-pound Michael Spinks who beat an aging Larry Holmes twice... So although Tyson was much shorter than Foreman (giving away leverage and range which I know is important) he was just as "big and strong" at his peak - and a lot faster. Watching Tyson quickly obliterate the same slow swinging Alex Stewart who beat the crap out of Foreman a year later will show you just how much faster a peak Tyson was than Foreman. Study those fights. Tyson was too fast for bigger, taller, slower guys like Frank Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Razor Ruddock, Trevor Berbick, and George Foreman... The guys who bet the crap out of Mike were big, strong, tall, fast, athletic, and skilled boxers like Douglas and Lewis.. Foreman was NOT in that category as the Jimmy Young fight aptly proved.. Young had no punching power and gave up height - but he used his quickness to finessed Forman.. Can you imagine little Jimmy Young trying to fight the Buster Douglas or Lennox Lewis of the nights they beat Tyson????

I don't know why you mentioned Holyfield because that works solely opposite of what you're saying.

-Foreman took a beating from Holyfield and kept coming the entire fight even having his moments.
-Tyson was stopped by Holyfield in the first fight
-Tyson quit in the 2nd fight by biting Evander's ear.

While who would win between them is debatable based on the speed of Tyson IMO, I lean forward on Foreman being the mentally stronger of the two by this comparison:

Foreman has shown the ability on occasion to come back and win a fight he was losing ior taking a beating in e Michael Moorer/Ron Lyle
Tyson if he couldn't KO you in 6, usually looked lost
Tyson has NEVER Ko'd someone late in ANY fight.
Tyson has NEVER come back to win a fight he was losing

ldlamb wrote:1973 Foreman knocks out 1988 Tyson in 4 rounds.

This, Foreman would brutalize Tyson who did want to fight an old version

IKSRTFO wrote:Tyson has NEVER come back to win a fight he was losing

Yes he DID... Tony Tucker caught Tyson with a hard left uppercut to take the 1st round of their fight... Tyson was then behind on the scorecards, meaning he was losing... But he came back to win a UD against a bigger, taller, and longer limbed opponent who had an excellent record of 34-0, and knocked out Buster Douglas to get his shot at Tyson...

Does Tyson have to get badly beaten up like Foreman did to prove he can come back from a serious beating and knockdowns to win??? ... When Mike got his ass kicked that bad he lost those fights -- but those guys would have beaten Foreman as well on those nights. They were kicking ass and taking names. George lost a few times and so did Tyson.. How you lose a fight is not a big factor to me.. You lost. I commend Foreman for staying alert for a possible opportunity, even after Michael Moorer was beating him up for 10 rounds... It was Foreman 3rd title shot since his comeback after losing the previous 2. The fact that Michael Moorer (who fought most of his career fights as a Light Heavyweight to that point) went to sleep on the job changed Boxing History. That was the only KO shot Foreman threw in his last 7 fights and it came at a good time.

Tyson was alert for the same opportunity after Buster Douglas beat him up all night.. Mike floored Douglas for a slow-assed count, but I believe Douglas could have gotten up at any time.. If Douglas retained his feet so Mike could have hit him with a much better follow up punch or punches, Mike would have retained the title because Douglas was almost as chinny as Moorer.. George got lucky. Mike didn't.. In Basketball sometimes the ball hits the back of the rim so it bounces way up in the air and comes back down through the net.. If the shot were a hair more accurate the ball would have hit the rim at a lower point and rebounded straight out to an opposing player -- and maybe cost you the game, series, and championship.

Things such as that are fate. You move on. Obviously if you're good enough to dominate everybody you avoid those dicey situations. Beat them by a mile... If you're Secretariat you destroy everybody. Foreman and Tyson weren't that type of Heavyweight Champion and there hasn't been one yet.

Foreman by KO. Probably between 6 and 8. I see the fight going like this...

Tyson would obviously be dangerous early but Big George had a solid enough chin to ride out the early storm. After that I think Tyson would start to doubt himself, especially as Foreman lands those thudding uppercuts when Tyson tries to close the distance. As the fight moves into rounds 4 and 5, Tyson becomes reluctant to keep up the pressure on George because of the punishment he has to take to land himself, this gives more time for Foreman to pick his shots. The head movement from Tyson is no longer a factor due to the sickening body shots that Foreman lands. Eventually, as we move past the 6th round, with Mike's resolve fading and Foreman landing more and more often, he starts walking Tyson down, forcing him onto the back foot. Now it's a matter of time and after dealing out some serious mid-round punishment, Foreman stops Tyson in the 7th.

Also, I think a prime George Foreman would psyche out a prime Mike Tyson. I don't think there's any chance of Foreman being intimidated by anyone and Mike always seemed more vulnerable mentally.

Kalan wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:Tyson has NEVER come back to win a fight he was losing

Yes he DID... Tony Tucker caught Tyson with a hard left uppercut to take the 1st round of their fight... Tyson was then behind on the scorecards, meaning he was losing... But he came back to win a UD against a bigger, taller, and longer limbed opponent who had an excellent record of 34-0, and knocked out Buster Douglas to get his shot at Tyson...

Does Tyson have to get badly beaten up like Foreman did to prove he can come back from a serious beating and knockdowns to win??? ... When Mike got his ass kicked that bad he lost those fights -- but those guys would have beaten Foreman as well on those nights. They were kicking ass and taking names. George lost a few times and so did Tyson.. How you lose a fight is not a big factor to me.. You lost. I commend Foreman for staying alert for a possible opportunity, even after Michael Moorer was beating him up for 10 rounds... It was Foreman 3rd title shot since his comeback after losing the previous 2. The fact that Michael Moorer (who fought most of his career fights as a Light Heavyweight to that point) went to sleep on the job changed Boxing History. That was the only KO shot Foreman threw in his last 7 fights and it came at a good time.

Tyson was alert for the same opportunity after Buster Douglas beat him up all night.. Mike floored Douglas for a slow-assed count, but I believe Douglas could have gotten up at any time.. If Douglas retained his feet so Mike could have hit him with a much better follow up punch or punches, Mike would have retained the title because Douglas was almost as chinny as Moorer.. George got lucky. Mike didn't.. In Basketball sometimes the ball hits the back of the rim so it bounces way up in the air and comes back down through the net.. If the shot were a hair more accurate the ball would have hit the rim at a lower point and rebounded straight out to an opposing player -- and maybe cost you the game, series, and championship.

Things such as that are fate. You move on. Obviously if you're good enough to dominate everybody you avoid those dicey situations. Beat them by a mile... If you're Secretariat you destroy everybody. Foreman and Tyson weren't that type of Heavyweight Champion and there hasn't been one yet.

You weave intricately, postulate profoundly, and opine with originality. And that's why you are welcome here!

Now, whether you want to face it or not, you really don't account for spirit. But you did take up the argument, so I know I at least registered when I mentioned it. But no, you don't factor it in. Like I say, you think like a trainer, and IF YOU could step into those guys and execute the things that you see that they have, without fear, and without personality, or humanity....you JUST MIGHT get some of those unusual outcomes that you are championing.

But no.....you just see a lot of machine parts.....not sure you see the gestalt human in many of these cases. And that is where the magic of the boxer often truly is found. A man that won't be beat, is often more difficult to beat than the man that YOU happen to be better than, in terms of the "issued" machine parts.

You think Norton Beats Frazier.
You think Wilt easily bests Ali
You think Valero is better than Armstrong.


I don't agree, but I like the way you think!

And Honestly, Tyson's tires weren't all that deep in the mud in that fight, but every time they got seriously deep in other fights, he choked.

after the forklift deposits the reluctant tyson into the ring and the first round starts formeman takes charge and never lets up. tysonl lands a couple of his hardest punches and foreman just blinks tyson mentally folds and soon goes down to stay. george's power, strength, chin and attitude are too much tyson. this is essentially a poorly
written summation of what boxbuzzy wrote ,which shows how rusty i am from being away the forum so long as buzzy usually reinterprets my posts.