BoxRec

The 1989 rankings with the previous p4p list - http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_R ... ings:_1989

The rankings by weight class, for 1988, to use as a rough guide - http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_R ... ings:_1988

How would your p4p top 10 have looked in 88?

1. Sugar Ray Leonard - Memories of the Hagler fight fresh, he wins 2 different weight titles against Lalonde
2. Mike Tyson - 3 titles and beat Holmes and Spinks this year. The sensation that was Tyson was in full effect
3. Sumbu Kalambay - 87/88 saw a run of Graham/Barklay/McCallum/Sims/Dewitt
4. Julio Cesar Chaves - Really starting to establish his legend by this stage
5. Evander Holyfield - Prove his dominance at cruiser in 87, made a solid start at heavy in 88 with win over Thomas
6. Azumah Nelson - Won title at second weight and racked up 3 solid wins
7. Michael Nunn - 5 wins, solid arrival at world class (would be higher, if the rankings were made up after 89 Kalambay win)
8. Raul Perez - Lora win would have established him straight at the top of Bantam weight class
9. Juan Martin Coggi - Oliva win in 87 and Lee win would likely have him the best 140lb fighter
10. Yong-Kang Kim - Sot Chitalada win might have been recognised.


Others considered:
Mike McCallum - should probably be in there. But loss at the start of the year and low key rebuild fights count him out
Tony Lopez - Fight of the year win against Lockridge would have got him recognition
Khaosai Galaxy - a 4 year reign at this point
Meldrick Taylor - Mcgirt win may have got him in, was tempted to rank this over Kim's win over Chitlada, but no one ever recognises the little man
Buddy Mcgirt - Taylor loss stops him being considered.
Jeff Fenech - Long reign, but may not have got credit for not leaving Oz. Best win was over the hill Zarate at this point
Marlon Starling - Not a good year for him, a draw and lucky to have a N/C on his 88 record
Virgil Hill - Just arrived on the world scene and no big wins in 88
Whitaker - Fell at the first hurdle. There would have been hype about his rise at this point probably but a first loss at world class would have put that on ice
Jose Luis Ramires - Beat prospect Whitaker, lost to Chaves. Tough call to leave him out for losing to Chaves
Simon Brown - 3 good wins and his stock was rising, wouldn't have made the list IMO
Roger Mayweather - solid run of defences
Hearns, Hagler and Duran would likely have been in consideration, due to their fame at the time, despite perhaps not deserving a place come 1988

Great thread. Nice to have an old skool thread back.

I'm going to make a list based on how I felt at the time . But will have a then and now blurb to explain how I felt than and now with hindsight about the ranking.

Please note my ranking criteria has always been to list the best fighter active on his very best day in the ring....

1. Mike Tyson - Than-Seemed utterly invincible Now- Correct to feel that way.Never would have imagined in a million years this was the start of the slide.

2. Ray Leonard - Than-Still dining off Hagler miracle. Now-repeated youtube viewings of lalonde win, show a fighter clearly well on his way down physically, but for his still formidable heart,chin and skills

3. Jeff Fenech -Than-Looked like duran 2nd coming Now- Incredible fighter a legend

4. Evander Holyfield -Than -best boxer athlete in world incredible fighter Now- What a legend

5. Sumbu Kalambay - than Classy late bloomer v impressive 87/88 now- Beat Mccallum,Barkley & Graham within a year but Id have others higher

6. Michael Nunn - Than was great in 88 Now- would have had lower, a fading Hearns would still have outboxed him in 88/89

7. Lloyd Honeyghan Thanfast,skilled,strong brave boxer puncher seemed to be no 1 even after vaca blip Now
was already fading due to lack of discipline focus would not have had on list now starling and breland and brown all better

8. Don Curry - Than I was one of hardcore who beleived the blips in his career could be reversed he was still a champ at LM and only27/28 Now clearly shot, defence was first to go. Still a briliiant boxer even shot but the blips v mccallum, jacquot and honeyghan can all be put down to distractions lack of focus

9. Azumah Nelson - Than Looked great in lower weights Now- a legend

10. Julio Cesar Chavez- Than I felt he needed Camacho to move up Now obviously deserved to be far higher up


Others considered:
Thomas Hearns - If not for barkley calamity I would have had top 3-4

Tony Lopez - Fast rising exciting persona.
Khaosai Galaxy - Long term champ
Meldrick Taylor & Pernell Whitaker - Still a lot to prove
Marlon Starling - In retrospect should have been top 6
Simon Brown/Mark Breland - Destroyed Vaca but Starling losses lingered for both
George Foreman- The magazines laughed but I rated him very highly even in 1988

davie wrote:1. Sugar Ray Leonard - Memories of the Hagler fight fresh, he wins 2 different weight titles against Lalonde
2. Mike Tyson - 3 titles and beat Holmes and Spinks this year. The sensation that was Tyson was in full effect
3. Sumbu Kalambay - 87/88 saw a run of Graham/Barklay/McCallum/Sims/Dewitt
4. Julio Cesar Chaves - Really starting to establish his legend by this stage
5. Evander Holyfield - Prove his dominance at cruiser in 87, made a solid start at heavy in 88 with win over Thomas
6. Azumah Nelson - Won title at second weight and racked up 3 solid wins
7. Michael Nunn - 5 wins, solid arrival at world class (would be higher, if the rankings were made up after 89 Kalambay win)
8. Raul Perez - Lora win would have established him straight at the top of Bantam weight class
9. Juan Martin Coggi - Oliva win in 87 and Lee win would likely have him the best 140lb fighter
10. Yong-Kang Kim - Sot Chitalada win might have been recognised.


Others considered:
Mike McCallum - should probably be in there. But loss at the start of the year and low key rebuild fights count him out
Tony Lopez - Fight of the year win against Lockridge would have got him recognition
Khaosai Galaxy - a 4 year reign at this point
Meldrick Taylor - Mcgirt win may have got him in, was tempted to rank this over Kim's win over Chitlada, but no one ever recognises the little man
Buddy Mcgirt - Taylor loss stops him being considered.
Jeff Fenech - Long reign, but may not have got credit for not leaving Oz. Best win was over the hill Zarate at this point
Marlon Starling - Not a good year for him, a draw and lucky to have a N/C on his 88 record
Virgil Hill - Just arrived on the world scene and no big wins in 88
Whitaker - Fell at the first hurdle. There would have been hype about his rise at this point probably but a first loss at world class would have put that on ice
Jose Luis Ramires - Beat prospect Whitaker, lost to Chaves. Tough call to leave him out for losing to Chaves
Simon Brown - 3 good wins and his stock was rising, wouldn't have made the list IMO
Roger Mayweather - solid run of defences
Hearns, Hagler and Duran would likely have been in consideration, due to their fame at the time, despite perhaps not deserving a place come 1988

Ramirez win over Pernell was utterly criminal. Khoasai deserves a higher spot in place of Coggi.

Tomasino wrote:

Ramirez win over Pernell was utterly criminal. Khoasai deserves a higher spot in place of Coggi.

I did contemplate this, certainly looking back he is more highly regarded but I tried to consider how he might have been ranked at the time and I'm not sure any of his wins might have caught the public imagination (maybe an older poster will remember this better) and by 88 he was only half way through his dominant reign.

I didn't know the circumstances of Ramirez win over Whitaker. Is it fair to say Pernell should have gone into his 1997 fight with De la Hoya with a 42 fight winning streak then?

Whitaker was badly robbed against Ramirez

Counter-puncher wrote:Whitaker was badly robbed against Ramirez

I'll have to have a watch of this, add it to Ali vs Young and Mayweather vs Castillo in my list of controversial scorecards in the post your scorecard thread

That and the Whitaker vs JCC fight that I still haven't got round to watching

Interesting contrast between Whitaker in the first and second Ramirez fights,the first one he moves laterally much more and is more on the back foot, second fight he throws much more leather and basically peppers Ramirez with multiple punches, again and again.

Counter-puncher wrote:Interesting contrast between Whitaker in the first and second Ramirez fights,the first one he moves laterally much more and is more on the back foot, second fight he throws much more leather and basically peppers Ramirez with multiple punches, again and again.

I've watched a few Whitaker fights recently and I've been very impressed and he is certainly a more rounded fighter than the defensive genius tag he carries.

I would even argue his defensive skills are a tad over sold. He is hard to hit but by no means untouchable. He does fire back a hell of a lot more than I expected him to however, there is a good balance to his skillset

Yeah,.saad on here always bemoans that nobody appreciates his punch output. Or his bodypunching now i come to think of it. He was a funny one defensively, I'm pretty sure if he didn't lose focus and get complacent like he did, if he had Floyds serious commitment to avoiding punches, he would have been as close to unhittable as it gets, but he would get into bad positions and offbalance: pretty sure this was much more prevalent in his later years as the marching powder took hold. But when he was focussed, moving on the outside and throwing 40-50 jabs a round, pinning him down to even throw 30 punches back at him wasn't easy.

davie wrote:How would your p4p top 10 have looked in 88?

Leonard was a great fighter, but he fought once in 1987 after not fighting or 3 years... then he didn't fight again for over a year and a half.

After he beat Hagler...Leonard's top ranked Middleweight Challenger was Michael Nunn, who fought 5 times in 1988 to go 32-0... Next was Mike McCallum, who fought 3 times in 1988 to go 34-1... But Leonard never defended the Middleweight Title---abandoning his title belt like Canyellow did.. Eventually Leonard fought unknown Donny Lalonde -- but made him boil down 7 pounds from his normal fighting weight to fight for a vacant World Title at 168 while defending his LHW Title @ 168 as well.

My top 10 at that time: Mike McCallum... Michael Nunn... Michael Spinks... Julio C Chavez... Pernell Whitacker... Julian Jackson... Evander Holyfield... Mike Tyson... Terry Norris... Ray Leonard.

There's no doubt in my mind that the great "Iron" Mike Tyson by the year 1988, was the world's greatest fighter!

My top 10 for the year 1988:
1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Michael Nunn
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Pernell Whitaker
6. Jeff Fenech
7. Koxai Galaxy
8. Meldrick Taylor
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Sumbu Kalambay

Kalan wrote:

davie wrote:How would your p4p top 10 have looked in 88?

Leonard was a great fighter, but he fought once in 1987 after not fighting or 3 years... then he didn't fight again for over a year and a half.

After he beat Hagler...Leonard's top ranked Middleweight Challenger was Michael Nunn, who fought 5 times in 1988 to go 32-0... Next was Mike McCallum, who fought 3 times in 1988 to go 34-1... But Leonard never defended the Middleweight Title---abandoning his title belt like Canyellow did.. Eventually Leonard fought unknown Donny Lalonde -- but made him boil down 7 pounds from his normal fighting weight to fight for a vacant World Title at 168 while defending his LHW Title @ 168 as well.

My top 10 at that time: Mike McCallum... Michael Nunn... Michael Spinks... Julio C Chavez... Pernell Whitacker... Julian Jackson... Evander Holyfield... Mike Tyson... Terry Norris... Ray Leonard.

How does Michael Spinks get into your 1988 rankings?

He fought once in 1988 & was badly destroyed by Mike Tyson, so much so that he never fought again.

There were plenty better fighters than Spinks in 1988 & that included the semi retired Sugar Ray Leonard.

Syntax Error wrote:

Kalan wrote:

davie wrote:How would your p4p top 10 have looked in 88?

Leonard was a great fighter, but he fought once in 1987 after not fighting or 3 years... then he didn't fight again for over a year and a half.

After he beat Hagler...Leonard's top ranked Middleweight Challenger was Michael Nunn, who fought 5 times in 1988 to go 32-0... Next was Mike McCallum, who fought 3 times in 1988 to go 34-1... But Leonard never defended the Middleweight Title---abandoning his title belt like Canyellow did.. Eventually Leonard fought unknown Donny Lalonde -- but made him boil down 7 pounds from his normal fighting weight to fight for a vacant World Title at 168 while defending his LHW Title @ 168 as well.

My top 10 at that time: Mike McCallum... Michael Nunn... Michael Spinks... Julio C Chavez... Pernell Whitacker... Julian Jackson... Evander Holyfield... Mike Tyson... Terry Norris... Ray Leonard.

How does Michael Spinks get into your 1988 rankings?

He fought once in 1988 & was badly destroyed by Mike Tyson, so much so that he never fought again.

There were plenty better fighters than Spinks in 1988 & that included the semi retired Sugar Ray Leonard.

Because Michael Spinks was a great Light Heavyweight Champion and undefeated at Light Heavyweight...and he was the only Light Heavyweight in History at that point to win the Heavyweight Championship---which he defended 3 times successfully... Mike Tyson was his only career loss and he was a natural 40-pounds heavier... Iron Mike was going to crush Spinks based on styles and sheer size, strength, and firepower. Everybody knew Spinks was doomed... That didn't wipeout everything Spinks accomplished in his undefeated career before that unfortunate matchup... MS knew he was in for it with Mike. Gee whiz, he looked like a dead man walking -- but the money was right.

Spinks came out with some pretty telling quotes before the fight. One bizarrfe one that I remember went along the lines of..."no I'm not afraid but I'm afraid of what might happen"

Right... I have no fears whatsoever... except about things that could possibly happen to me.

1. Tyson
2. Holyfield
3. Chavez
4. Nunn
5. Kalambay
6. Leonard
7. Taylor
8. Nelson
9. Fenech
10. Camacho

A few guys had relatively quiet years in 1988 which would have made them hard to rate.

For someone who was't around at this time, these threads are very interesting. Had heard of Sumbu Kalambay and knew he was a good MW champion around this time but never quite took notice of how good his resume was. Might have to have a proper look at him, was he good to watch?

Kalan wrote:

davie wrote:How would your p4p top 10 have looked in 88?

Leonard was a great fighter, but he fought once in 1987 after not fighting or 3 years... then he didn't fight again for over a year and a half.

After he beat Hagler...Leonard's top ranked Middleweight Challenger was Michael Nunn, who fought 5 times in 1988 to go 32-0... Next was Mike McCallum, who fought 3 times in 1988 to go 34-1... But Leonard never defended the Middleweight Title---abandoning his title belt like Canyellow did.. Eventually Leonard fought unknown Donny Lalonde -- but made him boil down 7 pounds from his normal fighting weight to fight for a vacant World Title at 168 while defending his LHW Title @ 168 as well.

My top 10 at that time: Mike McCallum... Michael Nunn... Michael Spinks... Julio C Chavez... Pernell Whitacker... Julian Jackson... Evander Holyfield... Mike Tyson... Terry Norris... Ray Leonard.

Did you know sumbu kalambay clearly outboxed Mike mccallum that year taking his unbeaten record??? It wasn't a hometown decision. Sumbu made mike look very slow and flatfooted. It was 9-6 on my card.

El Jefe- well worth looking at sumbu he put together a very impressive 87/88 beating tough foes like no 1 contender herol graham and mike mccallum , two master boxers who were outboxed by another master in Sumbu. Sumbu had fast hands, good mobility, average power but made it count and good work rate and stamina, heart. He also beat Iran Barkley, Robbie Sims and Doug dewitt in this time.