Joe Louis at his very best

[davie]

2 questions.

When was Joe Louis at his absolute best?

And what was his best win?

He had a long reign and plenty of recognisable names on his resume but he is often criticised for not fighting in the very best of eras.

[cfang]

The answer is - we never saw him at his best. That's because we didn't see him (apart from a 4 round exhibition) from March 42 to September 1946 (28-34 years old) due to the war. I still edge Ali as the best ever but on paper, surely if Louis hadn't have stopped due to the war, with the way he was koing people - he'd have racked up another 15-20 defences and he'd have his record streak at say 46 straight defences not 26, I guess he'd be a lock at number 1 all time heavy. It's had not to see him doing that.

[elmersalsa]

2 questions.

When was Joe Louis at his absolute best?

And what was his best win?

He had a long reign and plenty of recognisable names on his resume but he is often criticised for not fighting in the very best of eras.

The Brown Bomber was at his very best circa 1936-42. Six years of total prime. His greatest win was that unforgettable and legendary night of June 22, 1938 at New York's Yankee Stadium. He avenged his only loss at the time with a spectacular first round KO win over nemesis and old conqueror, Max Schmeling of Germany.

Like Johnson vs Jeffries, Dempsey vs Tunney II and Ali vs Frazier I, Louis vs Schmeling II was one of the most anticipated fights of all times.

[Kalan]

Louis was a bit like Tyson... He burned very hot early and faded quickly. Women, nightlife, drinking, and throwing his money away... The competition was so weak in the late 30's and 40's there was little reason for him to train hard.

HIs coach, Jack Blackburn, and Louis himself, said his best fight came 14 months into his pro career versus Max Baer.. Much like Tyson's first 18 months, Louis never took more than a couple days off during that stretch.. He fought constantly and was very sharp.. Baer was bigger and taller than Louis with much longer arms. Baer had the raw talent to be a good boxer, but wasn't interested. He absorbed punches well and was strictly a swinger.. Louis easily jabbed the crap out of him.. Baer had never been stopped before but Louis battered him badly and knocked him down 3 times..

Baer took the count on one knee. He had enough.. At one point Louis nailed Baer with a left hook that dropped him - but before Baer hit the canvas Louis ripped him with 2 more left hooks to the jaw. Louis said, "I never felt better for a fight. I felt like a machine."

[davie]

It seems a recurring theme with top heavy weights, that they have their best years interrupted.

Louis by the war, Ali by his ban for refusing to enlist for Vietnam, Mike Tyson by going to jail, Vitali Klitschko retired for 4 years arguable during his prime, plenty of 'what if's' there and plenty of history that could potentially be re-written

[Caractacus]

I think Joe Louis had considered his if not best perhaps memorable fight was the one with Primo Carnera.
At least thats what he said he felt like the night of when he first got high on the dope back in the 1950's.

[Kalan]

Primo Carnera came 1 year into Louis's pro career... but he couldn't feel too good about it because Da Preem was a terrible boxer.

Max Baer had already butchered Primo Carnera and Max Schmeling ... so the Baer win was more prestigious despite his points loss to Braddock.

[jaclem3]

louis always said baer was the toughest fighter he ever fought....(para paraphrased)...hitting him was like trying to drive bricks into a wall with your hands".
.....he also thought he was at his best against baer.

[jaclem3]

kalan.....comets like tyson don't hold a title for eleven years. okay, some of those years were spent in the army.
his last defense was by a great combo knockout over a man who had outboxed and made him look bad in their previous match.

[Kalan]

Yeah... The last Title Defense for Louis was against Walcott, who was older than him and had 12 losses...including the Louis robbery.. If Tyson could have fought the same challengers Louis fought he would have destroyed every last one of them.. Billy Conn started fighting as a lightweight and nearly won the Heavyweight Title...that's a progression through 9-weight divisions today.. Then you had Louis challengers such as Johnny Davies, Red Burman, Al McCoy, Tony Mustor, Tony Galento, and Jack Roper -- none of whom would have gotten near a title shot when Tyson ruled.

[davie]

Yeah... The last Title Defense for Louis was against Walcott, who was older than him and had 12 losses...including the Louis robbery.. If Tyson could have fought the same challengers Louis fought he would have destroyed every last one of them.. Billy Conn started fighting as a lightweight and nearly won the Heavyweight Title...that's a progression through 9-weight divisions today.. Then you had Louis challengers such as Johnny Davies, Red Burman, Al McCoy, Tony Mustor, Tony Galento, and Jack Roper -- none of whom would have gotten near a title shot when Tyson ruled.

They might not have got a shot in Tysons era
But I think the names on that list, who are still alive, have an offer from Eddie Hearn, if only they can find a way into the IBF top 15.

[Kalan]

If some of Louis's challengers were alive and in their exact primes today, they wouldn't find a way into the Top-15.

1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. Kubrat Pulev... 14. Erkan Teper...15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour

OR the top 31 LOL... What do you think would happen if Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua defended their titles against somebody with a 3-3 record???

[keithmoonhangover]

If some of Louis's challengers were alive and in their exact primes today, they wouldn't find a way into the Top-15.

1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. Kubrat Pulev... 14. Erkan Teper...15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour

OR the top 31 LOL... What do you think would happen if Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua defended their titles against somebody with a 3-3 record???

3-3 is better than a guy with no boxing experience what-so-ever walking into a world title fight because he was good at basketball. At least the 3-3 guy was a boxer. Surely you must see your double standards on this one?

[Tomasino]

If some of Louis's challengers were alive and in their exact primes today, they wouldn't find a way into the Top-15.

1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. Kubrat Pulev... 14. Erkan Teper...15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour

OR the top 31 LOL... What do you think would happen if Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua defended their titles against somebody with a 3-3 record???

3-3 is better than a guy with no boxing experience what-so-ever walking into a world title fight because he was good at basketball. At least the 3-3 guy was a boxer. Surely you must see your double standards on this one?

I thought he was a troll but he's just insane. He has researched facts extensively, that much is clear. However what his brain does with those facts is distort and re form them into a large, shitey mess. Also known as his posts.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

......was the best combination puncher in Boxing history.

[Tomasino]

......was the best combination puncher in Boxing history.

His highlight reels and slow motion replays are things of beauty. The power in every shot, accuracy and timing. Amazing.


I feel worse of as a fan losing his prime to the war than I do for Ali.

[SFW]

......was the best combination puncher in Boxing history.

Amen.

There is a reason people still study him today. He mastered distance, executed incredible patience, and made it look easy. It's disgusting what the government did to him, tortuous. I wish he had gotten the chance to hammer the bureaucrats that ruined his life.

[jaclem3]

i was going to reply to kalan's foolishness, but i see you guys have saved me the the trouble. thank you..

[p4p1]

It seems a recurring theme with top heavy weights, that they have their best years interrupted.

Louis by the war, Ali by his ban for refusing to enlist for Vietnam, Mike Tyson by going to jail, Vitali Klitschko retired for 4 years arguable during his prime, plenty of 'what if's' there and plenty of history that could potentially be re-written

Tyson had already been battered by Douglas by that stage.

[Crease]

Louis was a bit like Tyson... He burned very hot early and faded quickly. Women, nightlife, drinking, and throwing his money away... The competition was so weak in the late 30's and 40's there was little reason for him to train hard.

That is perhaps the single worst assessment of a boxer that I have ever read.

Louis reigned as the undisputed Heavyweight Number One for 11 long years.

And his achievement of defending his title 7 times in 7 months stands as probably the most astounding campaign ever seen in boxing.

[Kalan]

If some of Louis's challengers were alive and in their exact primes today, they wouldn't find a way into the Top-15.

1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. Kubrat Pulev... 14. Erkan Teper...15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour

OR the top 31 LOL... What do you think would happen if Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua defended their titles against somebody with a 3-3 record???

3-3 is better than a guy with no boxing experience what-so-ever walking into a world title fight because he was good at basketball. At least the 3-3 guy was a boxer. Surely you must see your double standards on this one?

Look... Davies was 3-3 and 5'11" X 190 pounds.. He couldn't have played college basketball in his dreams.. Davies wouldn't be sanctioned to fight a Heavyweight Title Fight today... Chamberlain-Ali had not trouble being sanctioned because he was a viable opponent.

A lot of people had a lot of faith in Chamberlain in this one -- including Cus D'Amato who didn't put his reputation on the line easily... Cus DID lead Patterson to the Heavyweight Championship at 21 and Tyson to the Heavyweight Championship by 20.

[Crease]

His highlight reels and slow motion replays are things of beauty. The power in every shot, accuracy and timing. Amazing.

Agreed. I would expand upon this and say that Louis Is the most destructive Heavyweight I've ever seen.

His punch power was intense (though not of a Foreman level), the timing, volume, speed & sheer accuracy of his shots when he fought on the inside, or had a man against the ropes was terrifying.

In particular his signature short, sharp inside hooks were the most devastating weapons that I've witnessed on a consistently regular basis, fight-after-fight.

I really can't emphasize enough those particular weapons of Joe's. And it's hard to compare them to Frazier's looping left hook (incredible though it is) because Joe followed through with another short, explosive hook on the other side. Switching from head-to-body-back-to-head in a metronome like rhythm.

Joe I'd definitely in my top 2 Heavy of all time. And I would be predicting Joe to be doing remarkably well against other top 10 all-time Heavyweights.

[cfang]

Louis was a killer. He never wasted a punch. Had incredible patience and composure and img those hands inside were devastating. He's my number 2 also and I'd pick him to bust up pretty much everyone outside of Ali. He'd stop Marciano if they met in primes. The facial damage would be too extreme. Like what Charles did x2. He'd also have a field day with big and slow heavys of today.

His highlight reels and slow motion replays are things of beauty. The power in every shot, accuracy and timing. Amazing.

Agreed. I would expand upon this and say that Louis Is the most destructive Heavyweight I've ever seen.

His punch power was intense (though not of a Foreman level), the timing, volume, speed & sheer accuracy of his shots when he fought on the inside, or had a man against the ropes was terrifying.

In particular his signature short, sharp inside hooks were the most devastating weapons that I've witnessed on a consistently regular basis, fight-after-fight.

I really can't emphasize enough those particular weapons of Joe's. And it's hard to compare them to Frazier's looping left hook (incredible though it is) because Joe followed through with another short, explosive hook on the other side. Switching from head-to-body-back-to-head in a metronome like rhythm.

Joe I'd definitely in my top 2 Heavy of all time. And I would be predicting Joe to be doing remarkably well against other top 10 all-time Heavyweights.

[Counter-puncher]

For those of you who love watching Louis and like this sort of thing, theres a youtube video by lee Wylie analysing his style, Wylie is pretty good at this sort of thing and Louis is a brilliant subject.

[davie]

For those of you who love watching Louis and like this sort of thing, theres a youtube video by lee Wylie analysing his style, Wylie is pretty good at this sort of thing and Louis is a brilliant subject.

Would work much better with a link mate