BoxRec

Kalan wrote:Remember how James Toney utterly smashed Iran Barkley??? .... And remember how Hearns got beaten, knocked out, and floored 3 X by Barkley???

Well.. Hearns would never have fought Toney if his life depended on it... McCallum did 3 X https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8eirhcgx0

I do remember this. Toney is one hell of an enigma.

.....question....who in MW history would have an easy time with a fully focused MW Toney? My opinion is he may have been an ATG at MW had he held his weight. He didn't so that's that...but curious as to how some feel he would do with the following opponents. Prime vs Prime


Toney vs SRR

Toney vs SRL

Toney vs RJJ in a second encounter

Toney vs Marvin Hagler

Toney vs Monzon

Toney vs Greb


Or any other Hypothetical you care to toss in......

Thanks in advance

Dave Tiberi had an easy time with him. I thought Reggie Johnson beat him. Great fighter, not a great Middleweight.

Toney was never beaten at Middleweight in the opinion of the judges... Everyone can have opinions, but only the judges' count. His fights with McCallum and Johnson were very close -- and he was behind when he KO'd Michael Nunn... Hagler never fought any natural Middleweight close to the ability of those 3 guys... McCallum, Nunn, and Jackson were Leonard's top 3 challengers and he flagrantly ducked them -- abandoning his title like Canyelo.

Kalan wrote:Toney was never beaten at Middleweight in the opinion of the judges... Everyone can have opinions, but only the judges' count. His fights with McCallum and Johnson were very close -- and he was behind when he KO'd Michael Nunn... Hagler never fought any natural Middleweight close to the ability of those 3 guys... McCallum, Nunn, and Jackson were Leonard's top 3 challengers and he flagrantly ducked them -- abandoning his title like Canyelo.

I disagree -- the judges don't always get it right.

Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

X 10000000000

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Kalan wrote:Toney was never beaten at Middleweight in the opinion of the judges... Everyone can have opinions, but only the judges' count. His fights with McCallum and Johnson were very close -- and he was behind when he KO'd Michael Nunn... Hagler never fought any natural Middleweight close to the ability of those 3 guys... McCallum, Nunn, and Jackson were Leonard's top 3 challengers and he flagrantly ducked them -- abandoning his title like Canyelo.

I disagree -- the judges don't always get it right.

They don't... I didn't say they did... but Toney was never beaten at Middleweight and had some really great performances in the Nunn and McCallum fights.. Those were tough guys to beat. Leonard obviously didn't want to any part of them, since he abandoned his title like Canelo, rather than face them

Tuan_Jim wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

Go flush yourself asswipe... Your comments are the most biased trash ever written.

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

Go flush yourself asswipe... Your comments are the most biased trash ever written.

I present facts using printed media written by journalists who were up close to the action and with contributions from those who were involved. That their accounts completely contradict your's is obviously a source of hideous embarrassment for you, given all of your historian grandstanding on here.

Wilt Chamberlain: I would train for 8 to 10 months. I'm not sure I could beat Ali.
Kalan: No! You would train for 6 months! And you know you would destroy Ali!

Lewis & Bowe: We have signed to fight each other in a super fight in 1995. We only have to get past McCall and Donald respectively.
Kalan: [Fingers in ears] No you haven't! I'm not listening! Na na na na na na!

You're ridiculous.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

I think that if he is prepared to make this much of a fool of himself for my entertainment, he should be encouraged to continue his capering.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

Go flush yourself asswipe... Your comments are the most biased trash ever written.

I present facts using printed media written by journalists who were up close to the action and with contributions from those who were involved. That their accounts completely contradict your's is obviously a source of hideous embarrassment for you, given all of your historian grandstanding on here.

Wilt Chamberlain: I would train for 8 to 10 months. I'm not sure I could beat Ali.
Kalan: No! You would train for 6 months! And you know you would destroy Ali!

Lewis & Bowe: We have signed to fight each other in a super fight in 1995. We only have to get past McCall and Donald respectively.
Kalan: [Fingers in ears] No you haven't! I'm not listening! Na na na na na na!

You're ridiculous.

No... I'm right... You're dead wrong... Bowe NEVER found time to fight Lewis, Tyson, Mercer, Ruddock, McCall, Tua, or other big punchers.

Lewis lost a fight... Lewis didn't throw his title belt into a trash can to avoid his mandatory challenger like Chicken Bowe famously did... Chamberlain was never promised 10 months to train.. That was a figment of that author's imagination...like Wilt being 7'2" tall... He didn't get anything right.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

LOL, CS is > BOTP right now. Let that sink in.

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:
Go flush yourself asswipe... Your comments are the most biased trash ever written.

I present facts using printed media written by journalists who were up close to the action and with contributions from those who were involved. That their accounts completely contradict your's is obviously a source of hideous embarrassment for you, given all of your historian grandstanding on here.

Wilt Chamberlain: I would train for 8 to 10 months. I'm not sure I could beat Ali.
Kalan: No! You would train for 6 months! And you know you would destroy Ali!

Lewis & Bowe: We have signed to fight each other in a super fight in 1995. We only have to get past McCall and Donald respectively.
Kalan: [Fingers in ears] No you haven't! I'm not listening! Na na na na na na!

You're ridiculous.

No... I'm right... You're dead wrong... Bowe NEVER found time to fight Lewis, Tyson, Mercer, Ruddock, McCall, Tua, or other big punchers.

Lewis lost a fight... Lewis didn't throw his title belt into a trash can to avoid his mandatory challenger like Chicken Bowe famously did... Chamberlain was never promised 10 months to train.. That was a figment of that author's imagination...like Wilt being 7'2" tall... He didn't get anything right.

Yes Lewis did, he trashcanned the WBA belt rather than fight Ruiz and trashcanned the IBF rather than fight Byrd.

And lol, now you're bringing up Tua? How ignorant are you of the 90s? Bowe retired December 1996. Who exactly had boxed David Tua at that point? David Izon? You're clutching at straws. For the millionth time: Mercer would have got his shot had he not blown it v Ferguson. Lewis would have got his shot had he not blown it v McCall.

Bowe didn't retire... He took 8 years off at age 28 because there were too many really hard punchers around in those days he didn't want to face... When he came back he fought the worst fighters he could find... He never did fight Lewis or Tyson and never wanted to face that type of brutal power.

I do remember this. Toney is one hell of an enigma.

.....question....who in MW history would have an easy time with a fully focused MW Toney? My opinion is he may have been an ATG at MW had he held his weight. He didn't so that's that...but curious as to how some feel he would do with the following opponents. Prime vs Prime


Toney vs SRR

Toney vs SRL

Toney vs RJJ in a second encounter

Toney vs Marvin Hagler

Toney vs Monzon

Toney vs Greb


Or any other Hypothetical you care to toss in......

Thanks in advance[/quote]

I think he's competitive with all but loses to all, though never having seen Greb fight it's hard to say. He just doesn't have the punch output to beat these guys, though I don't see anyone stopping him.

Flump wrote:I do remember this. Toney is one hell of an enigma.

.....question....who in MW history would have an easy time with a fully focused MW Toney? My opinion is he may have been an ATG at MW had he held his weight. He didn't so that's that...but curious as to how some feel he would do with the following opponents. Prime vs Prime


Toney vs SRR

Toney vs SRL

Toney vs RJJ in a second encounter

Toney vs Marvin Hagler

Toney vs Monzon

Toney vs Greb


Or any other Hypothetical you care to toss in......

Thanks in advance

I think he's competitive with all but loses to all, though never having seen Greb fight it's hard to say. He just doesn't have the punch output to beat these guys, though I don't see anyone stopping him.[/quote]
Think he beats Leonard but loses close decisions to the rest barring greb because I haven't seen him. Also think he beats Jackson, mcclellan, Benn, Eubank, Collins and hearns but think he could find herol graham to be his bogeyman

Flump wrote:I do remember this. Toney is one hell of an enigma.

.....question....who in MW history would have an easy time with a fully focused MW Toney? My opinion is he may have been an ATG at MW had he held his weight. He didn't so that's that...but curious as to how some feel he would do with the following opponents. Prime vs Prime


Toney vs SRR

Toney vs SRL

Toney vs RJJ in a second encounter

Toney vs Marvin Hagler

Toney vs Monzon

Toney vs Greb


Or any other Hypothetical you care to toss in......

Thanks in advance

I think he's competitive with all but loses to all, though never having seen Greb fight it's hard to say. He just doesn't have the punch output to beat these guys, though I don't see anyone stopping him.[/quote]

Toney destroys SRR.. destroys SRL... destroys Marv Hagler... beats Harry Greb... fights to a draw with Monzon... Loses to Roy Jones at 160 probably... Loses to Golovkin... Loses to Hopkins... Probably beats the Hell out of Mickey Walker and Stanley Ketchel... Might lose to prime Mike McCallum... The Body snatcher was a little past it when they hooked up for their draw.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
I present facts using printed media written by journalists who were up close to the action and with contributions from those who were involved. That their accounts completely contradict your's is obviously a source of hideous embarrassment for you, given all of your historian grandstanding on here.

Wilt Chamberlain: I would train for 8 to 10 months. I'm not sure I could beat Ali.
Kalan: No! You would train for 6 months! And you know you would destroy Ali!

Lewis & Bowe: We have signed to fight each other in a super fight in 1995. We only have to get past McCall and Donald respectively.
Kalan: [Fingers in ears] No you haven't! I'm not listening! Na na na na na na!

You're ridiculous.

No... I'm right... You're dead wrong... Bowe NEVER found time to fight Lewis, Tyson, Mercer, Ruddock, McCall, Tua, or other big punchers.

Lewis lost a fight... Lewis didn't throw his title belt into a trash can to avoid his mandatory challenger like Chicken Bowe famously did... Chamberlain was never promised 10 months to train.. That was a figment of that author's imagination...like Wilt being 7'2" tall... He didn't get anything right.

Yes Lewis did, he trashcanned the WBA belt rather than fight Ruiz and trashcanned the IBF rather than fight Byrd.

And lol, now you're bringing up Tua? How ignorant are you of the 90s? Bowe retired December 1996. Who exactly had boxed David Tua at that point? David Izon? You're clutching at straws. For the millionth time: Mercer would have got his shot had he not blown it v Ferguson. Lewis would have got his shot had he not blown it v McCall.

Tua stopped Ruiz in a round in '96......

Switch hitter wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:
No... I'm right... You're dead wrong... Bowe NEVER found time to fight Lewis, Tyson, Mercer, Ruddock, McCall, Tua, or other big punchers.

Lewis lost a fight... Lewis didn't throw his title belt into a trash can to avoid his mandatory challenger like Chicken Bowe famously did... Chamberlain was never promised 10 months to train.. That was a figment of that author's imagination...like Wilt being 7'2" tall... He didn't get anything right.

Yes Lewis did, he trashcanned the WBA belt rather than fight Ruiz and trashcanned the IBF rather than fight Byrd.

And lol, now you're bringing up Tua? How ignorant are you of the 90s? Bowe retired December 1996. Who exactly had boxed David Tua at that point? David Izon? You're clutching at straws. For the millionth time: Mercer would have got his shot had he not blown it v Ferguson. Lewis would have got his shot had he not blown it v McCall.

Tua stopped Ruiz in a round in '96......

Thanks Switch hitter.. Tua crushed John Ruiz a few seconds into the 1st round to go 22-0 very early in 1996 when Bowe was still active... Bowe wanted no part of Tua. Bowe fought the clumsy Pole Andrew Golota who beat Bowe up -- but got crushed quickly by great punchers Lewis, Brewster, and Tyson

Actually Tua went 23-0 when he smashed out John Ruiz very quickly... Obviously Bowe wanted no part of his thunderous power.

Switch hitter wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:
No... I'm right... You're dead wrong... Bowe NEVER found time to fight Lewis, Tyson, Mercer, Ruddock, McCall, Tua, or other big punchers.

Lewis lost a fight... Lewis didn't throw his title belt into a trash can to avoid his mandatory challenger like Chicken Bowe famously did... Chamberlain was never promised 10 months to train.. That was a figment of that author's imagination...like Wilt being 7'2" tall... He didn't get anything right.

Yes Lewis did, he trashcanned the WBA belt rather than fight Ruiz and trashcanned the IBF rather than fight Byrd.

And lol, now you're bringing up Tua? How ignorant are you of the 90s? Bowe retired December 1996. Who exactly had boxed David Tua at that point? David Izon? You're clutching at straws. For the millionth time: Mercer would have got his shot had he not blown it v Ferguson. Lewis would have got his shot had he not blown it v McCall.

Tua stopped Ruiz in a round in '96......

John Ruiz wasn't a name in 1996 - I wrongly assumed this was obvious & we all knew this. Ruiz was a barely known Panix prospect who had lost to Dannel Nicholson. Bowe, Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield all had bigger fish to fry in 1996 than the winner of a fight between David Tua and John Ruiz.

Of the 4 big names only Lewis boxed Tua, and that was in the year 2000, and that was only because he was a mandatory, and Lewis twice delayed the fight in favour of easy defences.

Using Tua as an example of someone Bowe 'ducked', when no big name had boxed him by the time Bowe retired shows a critical lack of understanding of the 90s scene.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Neither does Kalan, when he's making a different sort of point...such as Young/Ali.

There is a consistency to his inconsistency.

He is deliberately being inconsistent in order to make people like you talk about him rather than the interesting people, meaning the fighters.

Firm grounds to do everyone a favour and ban him, but of course you won't, and he'll continue to submerge the forum in his drivel.

LOL, CS is > BOTP right now. Let that sink in.

I'm on the verge of leaving them all to it. Every single thread is hijacked by this buffoon and the mods don't do a thing. I come to BOTP because I want to talk about boxing, not have to sift through the ravings of this hysterical retard. This forum's done.

Kalan wrote:

Flump wrote:I do remember this. Toney is one hell of an enigma.

.....question....who in MW history would have an easy time with a fully focused MW Toney? My opinion is he may have been an ATG at MW had he held his weight. He didn't so that's that...but curious as to how some feel he would do with the following opponents. Prime vs Prime


Toney vs SRR

Toney vs SRL

Toney vs RJJ in a second encounter

Toney vs Marvin Hagler

Toney vs Monzon

Toney vs Greb


Or any other Hypothetical you care to toss in......

Thanks in advance

I think he's competitive with all but loses to all, though never having seen Greb fight it's hard to say. He just doesn't have the punch output to beat these guys, though I don't see anyone stopping him.

Toney destroys SRR.. destroys SRL... destroys Marv Hagler... beats Harry Greb... fights to a draw with Monzon... Loses to Roy Jones at 160 probably... Loses to Golovkin... Loses to Hopkins... Probably beats the Hell out of Mickey Walker and Stanley Ketchel... Might lose to prime Mike McCallum... The Body snatcher was a little past it when they hooked up for their draw.[/quote]

Actually, now I think about it, you're right, James Toney destroys Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler.

Maybe because they lost to Ralph Jones (who was coming off 5 straight losses)... Terry Norris... and a Welterweight coming off a 3-year layoff???

And because Toney won World Titles all the way up to Cruiserweight -- and Robinson, Hagler, and Leonard could never have done that???