BoxRec

The Randal ‘Tex’ Cob – Larry Holmes fight is always remembered for ridding the fight game of Howard Cosell, which is a good thing, but for me it was a personal revelation that answered a question I had been carry around for a decade.

When I was a kid I was always perplexed when reading about the Jack Johnson – Jess Willard fight. I never could envision the fight; never understood how Johnson could bang on Willard for 20 plus rounds and Willard still be there in the 26th round, with enough punch left, to take advantage of an exhausted Johnson.

I had read all the conventional wisdom sounding the fight; Johnson’s dilemmas leading up to the fight: how he had had a turbulent three years, that he was an old 37, that the Cuban heat was 101 degrees, that he was focused on trying to regain his American residency, but regardless of all this, by most accounts Johnson pounded on Willard for over 20 rounds.

Johnson, like Holmes was a master boxer, and both rank in the top tier of heavyweights; Willard and Cob near the bottom, so the fact that Johnson whaled on Willard came to me as no surprise, but how Willard stood-up to it for 20 plus rounds always amazed and confused me; I just could not understand it; it seemed unbelievable. (I do no, did not, proscribe to the fixed fight theory, I believe that has been dispelled.)

That disbelief stayed with me until the night of Holmes-Cob. By the 13th round I started to feel like I was watching Johnson-Willard redux; I was able for the first time to visualize how the Johnson-Willard fight may have gone down.

That Cob was still there at 15, and looked like he could have played his part in the debacle (fight) for another ten rounds if he had been asked, made me wonder, could Holmes have continued to play his part? What if the fight had been scheduled for 45, like Johnson-Willard, would fatigue have created holes in Holmes’ defense that Cob could have taken advantage of, and would Cob still have had the punch to end it? The answer I walked away with that night was yes.

I came away from the fight thinking Randal ‘Tex’ Cob got ‘jobbed.’ He was robbed of the heavyweight title back in 1930 when they standardized world championship fights at fifteen rounds; if Cob had had ‘just’ (lol) another eight or nine rounds I believe he would have been Heavyweight Champion of the World.

- I can understand some parallels that you see, but Willard was a much more formidable fighter with a better defense he seldom gets credit for than was the face first Cobb who is also somewhat underrated. Yeah, Cobb might have worn Lar out in a 20 rounder, but at the rate he was taking punishment, he could've also gone over at any moment, maybe both at the same time. My yankee brother in law who was basically the reincarnation of a 350 lb black bear noted the neanderthal features of Cobb when he entered the ring and asked me where they found this Texas hayseed. I, ahem, wisely didn't point out the irony of his observation to him in the interest of marital bliss.

Also, Johnson had been coasting and enjoying the high life of gay Paree, but when he relocated to Havana he got deadly serious because he knew of the size and strength of Willard from the media reports. Impressively, and keep in mind I'm no fan of Johnson, he refused to run himself into shape, instead going on 1-2 hr swims in the Gulf of Mexico to supplement his sparring. That's why he was able to go so many rounds at a much higher pace than he normally showed. He brilliantly innovated a much more advanced training technique on the fly that allowed him to get back in shape without the injuries piled up by long distance running, but you won't ever see him get credit for that because it was beyond the comprehension of the typical press of the day.

And no, it was not 101 degrees. The meteorologic records clearly show normal temps in the 80s, but it ain't the heat as the saying goes, it's the humidity that was likely 80-90% meaning the fighters sweat doesn't evaporate to provide any cooling. The tropics are brutal to flatlander type civilians.

Basically Johnson thought he could bum rush the relatively untutored Willard for a knockout that never came. Willard was an early pioneer of the tall man fighter technique of using his defensive reach and leaning back to negate the power of the shorter Johnson, likely the biggest man he ever fought.

It was a very underrated match where Johnson showed heart and ferocity many thought he lacked and Willard showed patience and technical mastery of his formidable physical attributes. Finished with a beautifully athletic move in modern boxing terms with a conclusive, concussive leaping straight right that laid out Johnson for near 5 minutes. Shame so much of the film has been lost, but at least it was long enough for substantial footage to survive.

Fantastic topic to rehash, so thanks for that.

When I think of comparisons to Holmes-Cobb what comes to mind is NOT Johnson-Willard... That's the LAST fight I would think of.

Similar Heavyweight fights are more like: ... Louis vs Godoy 1... Ali vs Chuvalo 1... Lewis vs Mavrovic... Klitschko vs Wach... Corbett vs Sullivan..

Not exactly similar was Vitali Klitschko vs Timo Hoffman...though Vitali gave Hoffman a massive beating for 12 rounds Klitschko was actually a lot tougher physically than Hoffman... Cobb could take it... But eventually the greatest chin will fade under brutal punishment ... and his did.

Way way tougher on a man and his cerebrum than a merciful KO.

Huh....eh.....Wait a minute.....now you're agreeing with me.

I'm going to keep my one eye on you and your shenanigans, so don't try pullin' a fast one.

Why did Holmes vs Cobb cause Cosell to quit announcing boxing, but Humble Howard was fine with Ali-Chuvalo and Ali-Terrell?

Anyone?

He wanted some attention to be on him instead of the fighters?


Just a wild wild guess. I think he often thought HE was the show.

BoxBuzz wrote:He wanted some attention to be on him instead of the fighters?


Just a wild wild guess. I think he often thought HE was the show.

Cosell was an entertaining announcer. He was a lawyer, obviously a bright guy. But considering all the corruption and violence he saw in boxing over the decades, I thought it was quite hypocritical of him to quit because of the one sided Holmes-Cobb fight. Obviously, Robinson-LaMotta 4 was horribly violent and one sided as was the before mentioned Ali-Chuvalo 1, and Howard got thru all that.

Cobb wore Cosell's retirement as a badge of honor.

I remember reading Cosell understandably saw Ali as entertaining; it was kind of like the Ali & Cosell show. Holmes didn't have that kind of excitement so Cosell used the Cobb fight as an excuse to get out. Sounds realistic to me. Cobb said something to the effect of I could have told Howard boxing was corrupt and violent. Yes, Tex saw getting rid of Howard as a big accomplishment.

Cosell was a pretentious stuffed shirt... He was like Spiro Angnew with a sense of humor.

Kalan wrote:Cosell was a pretentious stuffed shirt... He was like Spiro Angnew with a sense of humor.

I don't care who you are....that shyts funny. But I'm probably the only person who gets it.

BoxBuzz wrote:Way way tougher on a man and his cerebrum than a merciful KO.

Huh....eh.....Wait a minute.....now you're agreeing with me.

I'm going to keep my one eye on you and your shenanigans, so don't try pullin' a fast one.

Merciful KO's aren't merciful... They're deadly... When you get iced there's always a chance you'll die... It's happened to amateurs.

I give Howard Cosell credit! Cobb one very, very tough man! Can't blame HC if he thought of himself as the show! He wasn't of course but he was a major player. Only one Howard Cosell RIP!

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Way way tougher on a man and his cerebrum than a merciful KO.

Huh....eh.....Wait a minute.....now you're agreeing with me.

I'm going to keep my one eye on you and your shenanigans, so don't try pullin' a fast one.

Merciful KO's aren't merciful... They're deadly... When you get iced there's always a chance you'll die... It's happened to amateurs.

Well yes.....thanks for clearing that up.

There's always a chance you will slip and fall and die in your own kitchen. It's about "relative risk".

If you get a choice between a KO and a 12 round beating...your stats are better with the KO.

Sounds like you either disagree with my statement...which is fine.....or you don't get what I'm saying.

I'm hoping if you disagree, that at least understand what you are disagreeing about.

Otherwise you are just being contrary. And you just don't seem the type to employ such a shallow tactic.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Way way tougher on a man and his cerebrum than a merciful KO.

Huh....eh.....Wait a minute.....now you're agreeing with me.

I'm going to keep my one eye on you and your shenanigans, so don't try pullin' a fast one.

Merciful KO's aren't merciful... They're deadly... When you get iced there's always a chance you'll die... It's happened to amateurs.

Well yes.....thanks for clearing that up.

There's always a chance you will slip and fall and die in your own kitchen. It's about "relative risk".

If you get a choice between a KO and a 12 round beating...your stats are better with the KO.

Sounds like you either disagree with my statement...which is fine.....or you don't get what I'm saying.

I'm hoping if you disagree, that at least understand what you are disagreeing about.

Otherwise you are just being contrary. And you just don't seem the type to employ such a shallow tactic.

You're being argumentative and you have no knowledge... We're not talking about slipping and falling -- which you have 1 chance in 133 of dying from according to actuarial tables... That's a much higher risk than dying from a gun shot or vehicle accident. If you're taking a beating the referee is supposed to stop it because you're in danger. They're not supposed to allow significant risk to the boxer's health. The Boxing Commission is not supposed to allow mismatches, but they do.. Let's say the referee is late to stop a one-sided fight.. A kid takes a 6 round beating and gets knocked out cold.. That's much tougher on a boxer than losing a lopsided 12-round decision where the referee didn't think he was in any danger of getting hurt so he let it go the distance.. If you're hit when you're already badly hurt, and get knocked out - that's when your brain suffers major damage. If a guy is overmatched and can't win the referee should stop it. This is supposed to be a sport - not a sanctuary for muggers. Matching boxers to get them wins is fine, as long as it's a reasonable and competitive matchup.

It doesn't make much difference if you get hit with 5,000 punches or 8,000 punches over 20 years. You may be fighting better boxers than yourself much of the time like George Chuvalo. He's still going strong. When he was taking a life threatening beating on 2 occasions the referee appropriately stopped it promptly. Carmen Basilio took a lot of distance losses. He was easy to hit and hard to stop. He didn't suffer a lot from it. Some boxers like Brad Rone you can just about predict their death in the ring. He was a professional loser in fact. After losing about 30 fights in a row he died in the ring. He was fighting the same guy for the 2nd time in 3 weeks -- after losing every round their 1st fight. He went down and out after the 1st round, never to awake. For me, it's a crime to allow such things.

You got some of that right, you got more of it wrong. But you mix them nicely and it kinda sorta sounds like you know what your talking about.

You're good at that.

But seriously......KO's are more mysterious, and have more of wide array of outcomes than you are currently aware of. And a quick clean KO....can be surprisingly benign.

But a 12 round beating...is never ever benign on the noggin. Though some fellas (and ladies I assume) are far more genetically capable of enduring such beating with minimal damage.

and for what it's worth the genetics do not follow along racial lines. They are more aligned with "premium mutt heritage"

I hope some can appreciate the meaning of that statement. (Diversity is strength folks.) Though that does not mean I'm going to leave my independent status and become a Democrat anytime soon.

Tony1244 wrote:I remember reading Cosell understandably saw Ali as entertaining; it was kind of like the Ali & Cosell show. Holmes didn't have that kind of excitement so Cosell used the Cobb fight as an excuse to get out. Sounds realistic to me. Cobb said something to the effect of I could have told Howard boxing was corrupt and violent. Yes, Tex saw getting rid of Howard as a big accomplishment.

Tex also said when hearing that Cossell was done with boxing after the one sided fight that he would box Holmes again if it would get Cossell off of Monday Night Football.

BoxBuzz wrote:You got some of that right, you got more of it wrong. But you mix them nicely and it kinda sorta sounds like you know what your talking about.

You're good at that.

But seriously......KO's are more mysterious, and have more of wide array of outcomes than you are currently aware of. And a quick clean KO....can be surprisingly benign.

But a 12 round beating...is never ever benign on the noggin. Though some fellas (and ladies I assume) are far more genetically capable of enduring such beating with minimal damage.

and for what it's worth the genetics do not follow along racial lines. They are more aligned with "premium mutt heritage"

I hope some can appreciate the meaning of that statement. (Diversity is strength folks.) Though that does not mean I'm going to leave my independent status and become a Democrat anytime soon.

Mutt heritage?????? .. What a word to use.. You don't need to be of multiracial or of multi-ethic heritage... You could be a full blooded Nigerian, Russian, Ukrainian, Samoan, Irishman, German, Chinaman, or what have you -- or you could be of mixed blood, it doesn't matter.. Somebody has the world's most resilient ability to absorb punches, but there's only a tiny chance he picked Boxing as a profession.. Interestingly enough -- since a man can produce 600 billion sperm in his life and a women can have 2 million eggs at birth -- the variations of genetic combinations a single married couple might possibly conceive exceeds the world population by more than 150 million times -- from the best possible genetic combination for a boxer to the least -- so the greatest possible athletes were most likely never born. Now I know you're going to grab your calculator and correct me.