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Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 13:29
by thepocketrocket
If you take a look at the odds for most of Crolla's fights, it is insane how many he has been underdog for, yet come through and won
Kieran Farrell (I'm sure Farrell was the favourite)
Andy Morris - Morris fave
Matthews 2 - Matthews fave
Gavin Rees - Rees fave
John Murray - Murray fave
Perez 1 - Perez fave, draw, but got a raw deal
Perez 2 - not sure on odds, but on here, Crolla had missed his chance
Barrios - Barrios fave
I have never seen a fighter at this level have more upset wins. Who says he can't do the business against Linares?
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:19
by Rexob
Froch.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:20
by Covfefe
Rexob wrote:Froch.
Abraham, Taylor and Bute? Not a lot really.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:25
by Rexob
TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Rexob wrote:Froch.
Abraham, Taylor and Bute? Not a lot really.
Groves 2? Kessler? Ward? Dirrell? Pascal? Reid?
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:27
by Covfefe
Rexob wrote:TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Rexob wrote:Froch.
Abraham, Taylor and Bute? Not a lot really.
Groves 2? Kessler? Ward? Dirrell? Pascal? Reid?
He lost to Kessler, and was favourite second time. Was favourite against Groves in one and two, he lost to Ward, was an overwhelming favourite against the virtually unknown Dirrell and was favourite against an ancient Robin Reid.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:37
by Rexob
TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Rexob wrote:TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
Abraham, Taylor and Bute? Not a lot really.
Groves 2? Kessler? Ward? Dirrell? Pascal? Reid?
He lost to Kessler, and was favourite second time. Was favourite against Groves in one and two, he lost to Ward, was an overwhelming favourite against the virtually unknown Dirrell and was favourite against an ancient Robin Reid.
Yep your right that's fooking shut me up
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:45
by crusader
Crolla is a good mention, although he didn't beat Matthews and I think he was the favourite for the Perez rematch. I'd also be surprised if he were an underdog against very untested Farrell, who looked like an area level guy to me. Isn't he a slight favorite against Linares by the way?
Hopkins was a dog at points against Tito, Pavlik, Tarver, Pascal, and Cloud.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 14:53
by Noxy
Steve Robinson possibly
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 17:57
by Lackeos
Based on boxrec ratings, Crolla only won 2 fights in his entire career in which he had the lower rating.
Other fighters I bothered to check:
21 Izzy Jannazzo
21 Saverio Turiello
20 Carl Guggino
17 Rocky Rondell
10 Emanuel Augustus
9 Oliver McCall
8 Sergio Martinez
8 Miguel Cotto
8 Oscar De L a Hoya
8 Demarcus Corley
7 Manny Pacquiao
7 Shane Mosley
6 Glen Johnson
I should mention that it's ridiculous to assume that some 29-year-old active fighter with only 38 fights could possibly be anywhere close to #1 all-time in this category. You might as well be like "Wow, Golovkin is 35-0. Is that the most wins anyone has ever had without a loss of all-time?" I think it shows a serious lack of imagination and lack of awareness of how much you don't know that you couldn't have fathomed that in the entire 100+ years of boxing, there could have been someone who compiled more upsets than some active 29-year-old with only 38 fights. You didn't think that there were guys out there with 150 or 200 career fights who have managed more than a small handful of upsets in their careers?
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 17:58
by asdfjkl
Bryant Jennings
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 19:51
by ElJefe
Be interested to know how many upset wins Ovill "The Upsetter" McKenzie has.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 11:12
by PredatorHayds
crusader wrote:Crolla is a good mention, although he didn't beat Matthews and I think he was the favourite for the Perez rematch. I'd also be surprised if he were an underdog against very untested Farrell, who looked like an area level guy to me. Isn't he a slight favorite against Linares by the way?
Hopkins was a dog at points against Tito, Pavlik, Tarver, Pascal, and Cloud.
Hopkins is a great shout.
The pavlik performance was a thing of beauty.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 11:15
by littlepug
whose that russian type that keeps turning over our middle prospects ?
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 11:47
by Stuarty
littlepug wrote:whose that russian type that keeps turning over our middle prospects ?
Khomitsky. One hard dude
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 11:49
by Stuarty
PredatorHayds wrote:crusader wrote:Crolla is a good mention, although he didn't beat Matthews and I think he was the favourite for the Perez rematch. I'd also be surprised if he were an underdog against very untested Farrell, who looked like an area level guy to me. Isn't he a slight favorite against Linares by the way?
Hopkins was a dog at points against Tito, Pavlik, Tarver, Pascal, and Cloud.
Hopkins is a great shout.
The pavlik performance was a thing of beauty.
That was a flawless performance that night. Absolute boxing lesson. Pavlik looked bewildered from about the 3rd round and didn't know what to do.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 13:13
by IRLangmaid25
Orlando Salido must be worth A shout.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 14:26
by Enlightened-One
thepocketrocket wrote:If you take a look at the odds for most of Crolla's fights, it is insane how many he has been underdog for, yet come through and won
Kieran Farrell (I'm sure Farrell was the favourite)
Andy Morris - Morris fave
Matthews 2 - Matthews fave
Gavin Rees - Rees fave
John Murray - Murray fave
Perez 1 - Perez fave, draw, but got a raw deal
Perez 2 - not sure on odds, but on here, Crolla had missed his chance
Barrios - Barrios fave
I have never seen a fighter at this level have more upset wins. Who says he can't do the business against Linares?
Are we sure about the information contained in this post, because I can't find the historical betting odds for most of those bouts and the BoxRec ratings for the first few opponents listed seem to have Crolla as the higher rated fighter (I didn't bother checking the rest)?
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 11 Aug 2016, 10:50
by computerrank
Here is a list from boxrec database with winning underdogs
- all bouts since 1960
- with favorite rated higher than 200 points
- underdog wins
- minimum 7 upsets
Code: Select all
+-------+----------------+------------+---------------------+-----+--------------+------------+-----+
| bid | first_name | last_name | division | nat | career_start | career_end | ups |
+-------+----------------+------------+---------------------+-----+--------------+------------+-----+
| 22960 | Johnny | Cooke | Welterweight | UK | 1960-06-28 | 1971-11-29 | 16 |
| 8479 | Angel Robinson | Garcia | Welterweight | CU | 1955-07-23 | 1978-02-25 | 13 |
| 9017 | Emile | Griffith | Welterweight | VI | 1958-06-02 | 1977-07-30 | 12 |
| 11393 | Eddie | Pace | Welterweight | US | 1958-09-20 | 1970-09-10 | 11 |
| 9785 | Denny | Moyer | Middleweight | US | 1957-08-17 | 1975-03-18 | 11 |
| 16260 | Juarez | de Lima | Middleweight | BR | 1963-10-20 | 1979-05-18 | 10 |
| 18683 | Joergen | Hansen | Welterweight | DK | 1969-04-10 | 1982-12-02 | 10 |
| 9803 | Harry | Scott | Middleweight | UK | 1960-06-02 | 1973-06-13 | 9 |
| 16243 | Jose | Gonzalez | Middleweight | PR | 1959-04-23 | 1974-06-08 | 9 |
| 180 | Muhammad | Ali | Heavyweight | US | 1960-10-29 | 1981-12-11 | 9 |
| 16624 | Clement | Tshinza | Light Middleweight | LU | 1971-04-19 | 1983-08-07 | 9 |
| 12533 | Raul | Soriano | Welterweight | MX | 1960-11-12 | 1973-11-18 | 8 |
| 43554 | Jose | Hernandez | Light Middleweight | ES | 1966-01-29 | 1984-09-08 | 8 |
| 134 | Hiroshi | Kobayashi | Super Featherweight | JP | 1962-07-02 | 1971-10-16 | 8 |
| 12536 | LC | Morgan | Welterweight | US | 1954-06-28 | 1969-10-28 | 8 |
| 12560 | Jean | Josselin | Welterweight | FR | 1961-12-04 | 1972-03-11 | 8 |
| 12558 | Billy | Backus | Welterweight | US | 1961-09-16 | 1978-05-20 | 8 |
| 154 | Hector | Thompson | Light Welterweight | AU | 1970-03-11 | 1980-11-24 | 7 |
| 18719 | Percy | Hayles | Light Welterweight | JM | 1957-07-27 | 1976-07-16 | 7 |
| 1318 | Ramon Gaspar | Abeldano | Welterweight | AR | 1979-07-14 | 1992-05-29 | 7 |
| 11416 | Bennie | Briscoe | Middleweight | US | 1962-09-10 | 1982-12-15 | 7 |
| 11421 | Elijah | Makhathini | Middleweight | ZA | 1971-02-06 | 1980-05-19 | 7 |
| 485 | Roger | Mayweather | Light Welterweight | US | 1981-07-29 | 1999-05-08 | 7 |
| 9385 | Jerry | Quarry | Heavyweight | US | 1965-05-07 | 1992-10-30 | 7 |
| 10830 | Antonio | Ortiz | Light Welterweight | ES | 1965-08-13 | 1977-11-04 | 7 |
| 149 | Javier | Ayala | Light Welterweight | MX | 1966-03-13 | 1980-07-23 | 7 |
| 580 | Carlos | Hernandez | Welterweight | VE | 1959-01-26 | 1971-05-11 | 7 |
| 12530 | Tony | Perez | Lightweight | MX | 1960-08-06 | 1971-10-06 | 7 |
| 2191 | Angel | Espada | Welterweight | PR | 1966-08-20 | 1981-12-10 | 7 |
| 32309 | Aldo | Pravisani | Lightweight | IT | 1950-07-03 | 1970-11-14 | 7 |
| 30274 | Domenico | Tiberia | Middleweight | IT | 1961-02-16 | 1977-12-02 | 7 |
| 16178 | Jimmy | Ellis | Heavyweight | US | 1961-04-19 | 1975-05-06 | 7 |
| 11404 | Rafael | Gutierrez | Middleweight | MX | 1964-08-06 | 1976-12-13 | 7 |
| 16237 | Bunny | Sterling | Middleweight | UK | 1966-09-13 | 1977-11-03 | 7 |
| 18236 | Avenamar | Peralta | Light Heavyweight | AR | 1965-06-12 | 1982-10-14 | 7 |
| 80 | Roberto | Duran | Lightweight | PA | 1968-02-23 | 2001-07-14 | 7 |
| 2525 | Jesse | Burnett | Light Heavyweight | US | 1972-04-13 | 1984-05-16 | 7 |
| 8999 | Nino | Benvenuti | Middleweight | IT | 1961-01-20 | 1971-05-08 | 7 |
| 18206 | Victor Emilio | Galindez | Light Heavyweight | AR | 1969-05-10 | 1980-06-14 | 7 |
| 17578 | Mimoun | Ben Ali | Bantamweight | ES | 1955-10-15 | 1969-12-17 | 7 |
+-------+----------------+------------+---------------------+-----+--------------+------------+-----+
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 11 Aug 2016, 10:56
by computerrank
... and the same for all bouts since 1980 only - and minimum 5 upsets:
Code: Select all
+-------+--------------+---------------+---------------------+-----+--------------+------------+-----+
| bid | first_name | last_name | division | nat | career_start | career_end | ups |
+-------+--------------+---------------+---------------------+-----+--------------+------------+-----+
| 1318 | Ramon Gaspar | Abeldano | Welterweight | AR | 1979-07-14 | 1992-05-29 | 7 |
| 485 | Roger | Mayweather | Light Welterweight | US | 1981-07-29 | 1999-05-08 | 7 |
| 499 | Evander | Holyfield | Heavyweight | US | 1984-11-15 | 2011-05-07 | 6 |
| 8166 | Juan Martin | Coggi | Light Welterweight | AR | 1982-04-02 | 1999-05-29 | 6 |
| 1437 | James | Toney | Heavyweight | US | 1988-10-26 | 2015-08-08 | 6 |
| 532 | Terry | Norris | Light Middleweight | US | 1986-08-02 | 1998-11-30 | 6 |
| 503 | Manuel | Medina | Featherweight | MX | 1985-10-09 | 2008-08-29 | 6 |
| 447 | Iran | Barkley | Middleweight | US | 1982-12-09 | 1999-07-31 | 6 |
| 610 | Edwin | Rosario | Lightweight | PR | 1979-03-03 | 1997-09-25 | 6 |
| 1097 | Verno | Phillips | Light Middleweight | US | 1988-01-23 | 2008-11-29 | 6 |
| 2617 | Davey | Moore | Light Middleweight | US | 1980-11-01 | 1988-04-30 | 5 |
| 352 | Floyd | Mayweather Jr | Welterweight | US | 1996-10-11 | 2015-09-12 | 5 |
| 14043 | Antonio | Tarver | Heavyweight | US | 1997-02-18 | 2015-08-14 | 5 |
| 487 | Daniel | Zaragoza | Super Bantamweight | MX | 1980-10-17 | 1997-09-06 | 5 |
| 1689 | Fabrice | Tiozzo | Light Heavyweight | FR | 1988-11-10 | 2006-07-15 | 5 |
| 6085 | Manning | Galloway | Welterweight | US | 1978-12-06 | 2006-02-25 | 5 |
| 4952 | Shane | Mosley | Welterweight | US | 1993-02-11 | 2016-05-28 | 5 |
| 1286 | Michael | Spinks | Light Heavyweight | US | 1977-04-16 | 1988-06-27 | 5 |
| 9047 | Vernon | Forrest | Welterweight | US | 1992-11-25 | 2008-09-13 | 5 |
| 472 | Dingaan | Thobela | Lightweight | ZA | 1986-06-28 | 2006-10-27 | 5 |
| 474 | Mike | Tyson | Heavyweight | US | 1985-03-06 | 2005-06-11 | 5 |
| 8418 | Jesse James | Leija | Super Featherweight | US | 1988-10-02 | 2005-01-29 | 5 |
+-------+--------------+---------------+---------------------+-----+--------------+------------+-----+
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 11 Aug 2016, 20:15
by Boxing Prospect
Rey Loreto and Rey Migreno must have a fair few-
Loreto Vs - Wisanu, Pornsawan, Joyi I, [Boxrec probably doesn't agree but Joyi II (?)]
Migreno Vs - Cuello, Albaracin, Suico, Ratanapol Sor Vorapin, Fonluang KKP? (again boxrec doesn't agree], Pongsaklek Wonjongkam (could also add Myung Ho Lee?)
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 08:08
by Enlightened-One
In terms of world title fights that Holyfield was expected to lose (based on Boxrec ratings), but he didn't, include:
• John Ruiz III
• Mike Tyson I
• Riddick Bowe II
• James Douglas
• Dwight Muhammad Qawi I
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 10:56
by Joe Boxer
Enlightened-One wrote:In terms of world title fights that Holyfield was expected to lose (based on Boxrec ratings), but he didn't, include:
• John Ruiz III
• Mike Tyson I
• Riddick Bowe II
• James Douglas
• Dwight Muhammad Qawi I
Beat me to it; I clicked on this thread to mention Holyfield.
Re: Has any fighter won more fights he was an underdog for, than Crolla?
Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 11:06
by SaadOffTheDeck
Jesse Burnett has to be up there.