BoxRec

Can you remember the last time that we had a big fight of this magnitude in which the winner would most likely be considered the P4P King of the sport? Floyd and Manny could have been had the fight been conducted 5 years prior but it wasn't. I think that you'd have to go back to the dominating days of the heavyweight to find a fight that meant this much for the winner.

Nothing against Roman Gonzales but I refuse to recognize a P4P king who weighs less than my petite girlfriend. I feel that the winner of this fight deserves the crown provided that the winner is determined legitimately and deservedly (no sketchy decision, DQ or on cuts). I think that this is the best fight that could possibly be made in Boxing right now and if we can get one of these a year, we all should be happy.

What do you think? Should the winner of this fight be declared the P4P best in the sport?

Probably, but it depends on the fight. If Ward turns it into a stinker and wins a close decision where neither fighter looks good, I could see people not having him as p4p #1.

jezzamundo wrote:Probably, but it depends on the fight. If Ward turns it into a stinker and wins a close decision where neither fighter looks good, I could see people not having him as p4p #1.

I agree. If we get a Floyd/Manny type fight then there won't be much impact at all to boxing's P4P list. This is definitely a possibility with the way Ward utilizes the clinch. I'm hoping that we don't have to sit through 12 rounds of ugly boxing.

Maybe. Depends who wins as daft as that may sound. If Ward wins then he retains that aura of invincibility he seems to have. Nobody has really troubled him at all and you could make a convincing arguement for him being no1. If Kovalev wins then you he would have a strong claim after such a big win but has shown vulnerabilities in the past so you could argue against him. As always in these p4p lists it's down to personal opinion.

Could be. Kovalev's coach is saying Ward is past his prime, so that doesn't help his pfp status if he beats him. I disagree and think Ward is prime. 50-50 fight with edge to Ward.

Gonzalez could solidify his status by fighting Rigo at 122. Pretty sure he walks around a little over that.

Badhusker wrote:Could be. Kovalev's coach is saying Ward is past his prime, so that doesn't help his pfp status if he beats him. I disagree and think Ward is prime. 50-50 fight with edge to Ward.

Gonzalez could solidify his status by fighting Rigo at 122. Pretty sure he walks around a little over that.

I don't think Gonazalez will have it all his own way against Cuadras tbh. I expect him to win but I think it'll be closer than a lot of people expect. His movement is an absolute joy to watch but will he carry his power up to SFW? Then to jump to Bantam then SBW is a big ask. As you say though, if he done that then you'd have to hand him the p4p crown and let him keep it! Especially if he beat someone like Rigo.

In answer to the original question - very possibly. Golovkin stands in the way though.

People lately are creaming their pants over Gonzalez and yes he's very good but P4P number one, I don't think so.

If Golovkin beats Brook that's probably enough to ensure him number one status. The winner of the Kovalev - Ward fight has a very strong case.

Assuming a fair and clear victory the winner will probably be my number one, especially if it's Ward; he already has an excellent 168 resume, and a win over the top guy at 175 shows that he's still got it.

Ian1973 wrote:In answer to the original question - very possibly. Golovkin stands in the way though.

People lately are creaming their pants over Gonzalez and yes he's very good but P4P number one, I don't think so.

If Golovkin beats Brook that's probably enough to ensure him number one status. The winner of the Kovalev - Ward fight has a very strong case.

Golovkin is clearly very good but the poor calibre of opposition he's faced, coupled with (probably) defeating a 147lb-er who himself has never scored a clear-cut decision victory over a legitimate world-class welterweight, does not warrant justification as being proclaimed the p4p number one... ever!

Sometimes passing the proverbial "eyeball test" is simply not enough.

Stuarty30 wrote:

Badhusker wrote:Could be. Kovalev's coach is saying Ward is past his prime, so that doesn't help his pfp status if he beats him. I disagree and think Ward is prime. 50-50 fight with edge to Ward.

Gonzalez could solidify his status by fighting Rigo at 122. Pretty sure he walks around a little over that.

I don't think Gonazalez will have it all his own way against Cuadras tbh. I expect him to win but I think it'll be closer than a lot of people expect. His movement is an absolute joy to watch but will he carry his power up to SFW? Then to jump to Bantam then SBW is a big ask. As you say though, if he done that then you'd have to hand him the p4p crown and let him keep it! Especially if he beat someone like Rigo.

Cuadras is a very good fighter. I'd say this is about his max weight to be effective, maybe 118. He should fight Rigo right after Rigo takes on Crawford. Lol

I'd say yes. At the worst the winner will be number 2. Then again it's always subjective anyways P4P.

caldo2025 wrote:Can you remember the last time that we had a big fight of this magnitude in which the winner would most likely be considered the P4P King of the sport? Floyd and Manny could have been had the fight been conducted 5 years prior but it wasn't. I think that you'd have to go back to the dominating days of the heavyweight to find a fight that meant this much for the winner.

Nothing against Roman Gonzales but I refuse to recognize a P4P king who weighs less than my petite girlfriend. I feel that the winner of this fight deserves the crown provided that the winner is determined legitimately and deservedly (no sketchy decision, DQ or on cuts). I think that this is the best fight that could possibly be made in Boxing right now and if we can get one of these a year, we all should be happy.

What do you think? Should the winner of this fight be declared the P4P best in the sport?

probably jones v toney or whitaker v chavez was the last time, dont really understand your issue with Gonzales and his weight, a world class fighter is a world class fighter regardless of how much he weighs and shouldnt effect his p4p status, bit silly that really

Yes....imo I think this is literally 1 vs 2

caldo2025 wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:Probably, but it depends on the fight. If Ward turns it into a stinker and wins a close decision where neither fighter looks good, I could see people not having him as p4p #1.

I agree. If we get a Floyd/Manny type fight then there won't be much impact at all to boxing's P4P list. This is definitely a possibility with the way Ward utilizes the clinch. I'm hoping that we don't have to sit through 12 rounds of ugly boxing.

Kova should do us all a favor and stop the ugliness sooner

Seriously speaking, if Roman wins and there is a clear winner in Kova vs Ward fight, then they will be #1 and #2 depending on one's taste.

They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

gilgamesh wrote:They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

How do you compare a guy who has never fought p4p top 20 to Andre Ward?
Especially if he beats Kovalev (consensus 1-3 p4p).
Sorry, I forgot ... because HBO said so.

Also, I see the BS already. If Ward wins a boring stinker, he did his job.
That is the only way he can win. So you are preparing to take his credit beforehand.

You get more p4p credit if your wins are exciting? Another HBO-based logic.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

How do you compare a guy who has never fought p4p top 20 to Andre Ward?
Especially if he beats Kovalev (consensus 1-3 p4p).
Sorry, I forgot ... because HBO said so.

Also, I see the BS already. If Ward wins a boring stinker, he did his job.
That is the only way he can win. So you are preparing to take his credit beforehand.

You get more p4p credit if your wins are exciting? Another HBO-based logic.

Chocolatito has beaten a P4P Top 20 opponent in Juan Francisco Estrada. Estrada has even appeared in Top 10 lists, and would be no worse than Top 15 on several experts list right now.

I never said you get more credit if your wins are exciting. It helps draw in fans, doesn't make a win any more clear. I know that Ward will do all he can to make this a boring fight because that's the only way he can win it, but if he does indeed win it I'd give him full credit for the win. Unlike other fans I give credit where credit is due whether I like a guy or not.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

How do you compare a guy who has never fought p4p top 20 to Andre Ward?
Especially if he beats Kovalev (consensus 1-3 p4p).
Sorry, I forgot ... because HBO said so.

Also, I see the BS already. If Ward wins a boring stinker, he did his job.
That is the only way he can win. So you are preparing to take his credit beforehand.

You get more p4p credit if your wins are exciting? Another HBO-based logic.

No, you get more p4p credit if it is a clear win and not something which could have gone either way. I don't think Canelo gets much credit for his wins over Trout and Lara.

boxing_rocks wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

How do you compare a guy who has never fought p4p top 20 to Andre Ward?
Especially if he beats Kovalev (consensus 1-3 p4p).
Sorry, I forgot ... because HBO said so.

Also, I see the BS already. If Ward wins a boring stinker, he did his job.
That is the only way he can win. So you are preparing to take his credit beforehand.

You get more p4p credit if your wins are exciting? Another HBO-based logic.

No, you get more p4p credit if it is a clear win and not something which could have gone either way. I don't think Canelo gets much credit for his wins over Trout and Lara.

He gets full credit for me for his win over Lara because it was a clear win. I did think Trout beat him though. Right now all I want to see happen to Canelo is for him to get his face mashed in. I liked him until the "I don't f*ck around" and then dropping his belt stuff. Now I can't stand him and hope to never see him win another fight.

gilgamesh wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

How do you compare a guy who has never fought p4p top 20 to Andre Ward?
Especially if he beats Kovalev (consensus 1-3 p4p).
Sorry, I forgot ... because HBO said so.

Also, I see the BS already. If Ward wins a boring stinker, he did his job.
That is the only way he can win. So you are preparing to take his credit beforehand.

You get more p4p credit if your wins are exciting? Another HBO-based logic.

Chocolatito has beaten a P4P Top 20 opponent in Juan Francisco Estrada. Estrada has even appeared in Top 10 lists, and would be no worse than Top 15 on several experts list right now.

I never said you get more credit if your wins are exciting. It helps draw in fans, doesn't make a win any more clear. I know that Ward will do all he can to make this a boring fight because that's the only way he can win it, but if he does indeed win it I'd give him full credit for the win. Unlike other fans I give credit where credit is due whether I like a guy or not.

Also, the ignorance of the common fight fan (including me) about weights lower than 115 is a problem here.
Gonzalez 3 weight class titles are 105, 108, and 112. Most fighters in these weight classes fight in all 3, or DEFINITELY 2.
His next "weight class" would be 115. It's just lower weight class belt spamming.
Not just because of the theoretical weight difference, but because the actual practice of all the guys fighting each other.

Gonzalez would get to 118 before "he moves up".

What's his fight night weight?

boxing_rocks wrote:No, you get more p4p credit if it is a clear win and not something which could have gone either way. I don't think Canelo gets much credit for his wins over Trout and Lara.

I agree. So based on that, explain Canelo's p4p ranking.

45 fights that Charlo, Williams, Lara, and Andrade (maybe even Spence and Thurman) would have also handled.
Then he's 1-1-2 against Floyd, Trout, Lara and Cotto.

It's crazy to think how long it took guys like Hopkins, Floyd and Manny to get serious p4p recognition.
Now it's just given away.

Crawford #4

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:No, you get more p4p credit if it is a clear win and not something which could have gone either way. I don't think Canelo gets much credit for his wins over Trout and Lara.

I agree. So based on that, explain Canelo's p4p ranking.

45 fights that Charlo, Williams, Lara, and Andrade (maybe even Spence and Thurman) would have also handled.
Then he's 1-1-2 against Floyd, Trout, Lara and Cotto.

It's crazy to think how long it took guys like Hopkins, Floyd and Manny to get serious p4p recognition.
Now it's just given away.

Crawford #4

Ring is controlled by GB which explains Canelo's rankings.

I think so. The win will be more impressive than any single win of Chocolatito's, however if Gonzalez beats Cuadras to become a 4 weight world champion he would still have a strong claim to being #1.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:No, you get more p4p credit if it is a clear win and not something which could have gone either way. I don't think Canelo gets much credit for his wins over Trout and Lara.

I agree. So based on that, explain Canelo's p4p ranking.

45 fights that Charlo, Williams, Lara, and Andrade (maybe even Spence and Thurman) would have also handled.
Then he's 1-1-2 against Floyd, Trout, Lara and Cotto.

*2-1-1.

jezzamundo wrote:Probably, but it depends on the fight. If Ward turns it into a stinker and wins a close decision where neither fighter looks good, I could see people not having him as p4p #1.

pretty much what i'm thinking kovalev and ward, whoever the winner will be, need to win decisively and this will earn them the p4p #1 spot.

i'm saying krusher is going to take that spot

Oiky wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:Probably, but it depends on the fight. If Ward turns it into a stinker and wins a close decision where neither fighter looks good, I could see people not having him as p4p #1.

pretty much what i'm thinking kovalev and ward, whoever the winner will be, need to win decisively and this will earn them the p4p #1 spot.

i'm saying krusher is going to take that spot

A close decision win over Andre Ward is worth more than any Roman Gonzalez win x10.
A close decision win over Sergey Kovalev is worth more than any Roman Gonzalez win x5.

Probably could say the same thing about GGG, Crawford and most of the p4p list.