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Does Tim Witherspoon belongs in the hall of fame in Canastota, NY someday?

Explain and why.

elmersalsa wrote:Does Tim Witherspoon belongs in the hall of fame in Canastota, NY someday?

Explain and why.

I like Tim, he was very good and could have been better IMO. I don't think he deserves into the HOF though. He lost too many of his big fights. If he had maintained the form he showed in the Holmes fight then sure, but he didn't.

Yes he does.

There are worse fighters in the HOF.

Even Sylvester Stallone is in the HOF & he has never boxed in his life.

Who next? Wilt Chamberlain?

No, just because he's better than other mistakes doesn't mean he belongs. Why does everyone bring up Stallone? He's a nonparticipant, if that grinds your gears why not direct the angst at Leroy Nieman? The Rocky movies brought more fans to the sport than just about anything else, certainly more than a painting(I have the FOTC one).

So what specifically did he do that makes him worthy of being in the IBHOF ?

elmersalsa wrote:Does Tim Witherspoon belongs in the hall of fame in Canastota, NY someday?

Explain and why.

Probably. To start out with he's a heavyweight and a three-time belt winner Witherspoon had the ability. It was outside the ring stuff and contract issues with Don King that put a damper on his professional career.

However many times a fighters a beltholder (I think he was only two anyway) should have no bearing on if someone should be or not.

Yes, there have been huge mistakes in the past and Witherspoon is better than a small % of fighters already in.

However, there are many other fighters who are more deserving.
A likable guy, but he doesn't really have much of a case at all.

Ambling Alp II wrote:However many times a fighters a beltholder (I think he was only two anyway) should have no bearing on if someone should be or not.

Yes, there have been huge mistakes in the past and Witherspoon is better than a small % of fighters already in.

However, there are many other fighters who are more deserving.
A likable guy, but he doesn't really have much of a case at all.

I think there are so many more deserving than Tim, that his induction would be considered an error. Not that his time might not come eventually...but he's not at the head of the line.

There are some pretty major names that still need acknowledgment.....I think someone brought up Starlings name recently....and he's more deserving....though once again...probably not at the head of the line.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:However many times a fighters a beltholder (I think he was only two anyway) should have no bearing on if someone should be or not.

Yes, there have been huge mistakes in the past and Witherspoon is better than a small % of fighters already in.

However, there are many other fighters who are more deserving.
A likable guy, but he doesn't really have much of a case at all.

I think there are so many more deserving than Tim, that his induction would be considered an error. Not that his time might not come eventually...but he's not at the head of the line.

There are some pretty major names that still need acknowledgment.....I think someone brought up Starlings name recently....and he's more deserving....though once again...probably not at the head of the line.

Huge Spoon fan and in a few years Vitali will get in when Witherspoon has a way better resume. He'd also beat the breaks off either Klitschko on his worst night. Still not a HOFer.

Tomasino wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Does Tim Witherspoon belongs in the hall of fame in Canastota, NY someday?

Explain and why.

I like Tim, he was very good and could have been better IMO. I don't think he deserves into the HOF though. He lost too many of his big fights. If he had maintained the form he showed in the Holmes fight then sure, but he didn't.

I agree with Tomasino.He was good but he lost too many of this big fights.

Terrible Tim Witherspoon is one of my all time favourite Heavyweight's he was so naturally TALENTED and In the year's to come he will be in the HOF but right now there are quite a few in front of him I will probably be dead when he's inducted as will Tim i'd imagine.......... What did Tim have 5/6 amateur fight's then a short time later gets invited to Muhammad Ali training camp for the Holmes fight come to think of it Holmes had a very limited Amateur career too not that Tim accomplished what Larry did....For what its worth I was 12 year's old when I watched Witherspoon Challenge Holmes for The Heavyweight Title and i'v watched quite a few replay's and I still to this day give Witherspoon the decision that night

What are the exact criteria for entry to the HOF?

I'm personally not bothered who gets in or not, but wonder why so many people are adamant Witherspoon doesn't get in, even though lesser fighters than him are in & no doubt in the future, others will get in too.

As I have said, if an actor & other folk for various reasons can get in (obviously as non participants), then a man who won a version of the HW title, was one of the foremost HWs of his era, took his lumps & now trains fighters should get in too?

The nonparticipants are a separate category. It's the difference between a right fielder and an announcer.

Syntax Error wrote:What are the exact criteria for entry to the HOF?

I'm personally not bothered who gets in or not, but wonder why so many people are adamant Witherspoon doesn't get in, even though lesser fighters than him are in & no doubt in the future, others will get in too.

As I have said, if an actor & other folk for various reasons can get in (obviously as non participants), then a man who won a version of the HW title, was one of the foremost HWs of his era, took his lumps & now trains fighters should get in too?

There is no exact criteria. You do have to be retired for five years if you are a fighter.

Yes there are fighters not as good as him that are in. Those are a mistakes. The vast majority were better than him.
Yes there will almost certainly be fighters in the future that were not as good as him. Those will be mistakes as well.

The vast majority of HOFer's were better than him.
What people don't seem to understand that voters aren't comparing Witherspoon to Arturo Gatti or Jess Willard (who are in) when he is up for election.
They will be comparing him to Marlon Starling, Rodrigo Valdez, Eddie Mustapha Muhammad etc. who are not in.

Winning a version of the title and being one of the foremost heavyweights his era simply isn't enough. You can say the same for Marvin Hart, Primo Carnera, Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terrell, as well as several of Witherpoon's rivals from his own era.

Don't forget Valero......and Ibeabuchi......surely their time for HOF status is coming?


Please please please know my tongue if planted firmly in my cheek as I suggest this.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:What are the exact criteria for entry to the HOF?

I'm personally not bothered who gets in or not, but wonder why so many people are adamant Witherspoon doesn't get in, even though lesser fighters than him are in & no doubt in the future, others will get in too.

As I have said, if an actor & other folk for various reasons can get in (obviously as non participants), then a man who won a version of the HW title, was one of the foremost HWs of his era, took his lumps & now trains fighters should get in too?

There is no exact criteria. You do have to be retired for five years if you are a fighter.

Yes there are fighters not as good as him that are in. Those are a mistakes. The vast majority were better than him.
Yes there will almost certainly be fighters in the future that were not as good as him. Those will be mistakes as well.

The vast majority of HOFer's were better than him.
What people don't seem to understand that voters aren't comparing Witherspoon to Arturo Gatti or Jess Willard (who are in) when he is up for election.
They will be comparing him to Marlon Starling, Rodrigo Valdez, Eddie Mustapha Muhammad etc. who are not in.

Winning a version of the title and being one of the foremost heavyweights his era simply isn't enough. You can say the same for Marvin Hart, Primo Carnera, Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terrell, as well as several of Witherpoon's rivals from his own era.

Fair points.

Tim is a well-liked fighter and that's backed-up by the number of fans who still remember and respect him - decent enough record as well - but I personally think the Canastota doyens would be making a popularist decision rather than one based on sheer boxing merit if Tim got the nod.

If Jesse Willard is in then get Terrible Tims Seat ready because if ex Heavyweight Champ like Williard is in it open's the door for quite a few

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:If Jesse Willard is in then get Terrible Tims Seat ready because if ex Heavyweight Champ like Williard is in it open's the door for quite a few

This is the thing with this whole HOF malarkey.

You can muddy the waters when you start thinking of others who have got in & before you know it, we'll be getting the likes of Willy Wise & Pat Lawlor inducted!

I used to think like that, but others have shown me the error of my ways.

I would suggest if you asked Witherspoon which he'd prefer, entrance to a HOF or the money King screwed him for, I don't think membership of some club would get a look in.

Fair comment, although membership of the HOF might be a very handy bonus for Tim in terms of landing a few more speaking gigs/appearances.
I am fairly sure Tim tops-up his income with this sort of stuff and it would be a nice boost of sorts.

But definitely get the overall point; King owned fighters in a deeply cynical- parasitical way and despite all the razzamataz and some great fight nights I still view him as one of the sport's bad guys.

My favorite heavyweight fighter outside of Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson in the decade of the 1980s, as much as I like him for skills and talent, there are many good fighters who are deserving as "Terrible" Tim Witherspoon like a Donald Curry, Marlon Starling, Michael Nunn, Iran Barkley and others.

Yes, Witherspoon deserves to be in there. If for no other reason than he said this when asked why he went back to Don King after King had robbed him blind..."I was a damsel in distress" Way to go Tim (an excellent fighter on his good days but not HOF material)

Oh and anyone that walks away with $60,000 from a $1,000,000 purse and doesn't murder Don King deserves something

bollox wrote:Oh and anyone that walks away with $60,000 from a $1,000,000 purse and doesn't murder Don King deserves something

Well, he went to court and made King pay him $ 1,000,000, so eventually he got something.

It is a pity his career went this way (with those inactivity periods, legal issues and not much motivation sometimes), as I feel Tim had enough skills to make HOF easily. Still, HOF is about achievements and not potential, and I do not think he achieved enough to be there... also I do not consider the argument that someone worse as good one... one simply does not correct a mistake by making another one of the same kind

Syntax Error wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:If Jesse Willard is in then get Terrible Tims Seat ready because if ex Heavyweight Champ like Williard is in it open's the door for quite a few

This is the thing with this whole HOF malarkey.

You can muddy the waters when you start thinking of others who have got in & before you know it, we'll be getting the likes of Willy Wise & Pat Lawlor inducted!

I used to think like that, but others have shown me the error of my ways.

Willy Wise and Lawlor are no where near HOF I'd like to know who'd be putting them in.....Come to think of it those 2 you mentioned should not be spoken in the same sentence as Witherspoon when we are talking HOF