BoxRec

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Abel Holtz Stadium, Miami Beach, Florida, USA, 09/26/1986

The Preamble to Bramble

I got lucky that night; I ended up sitting next to Alexis Arguello. By happenstance my seat was bumped up next to the VIP section; we sat right next to each other separated by a velvet rope, he was in the VIP section; I wasn’t.

Throughout the night everyone wanted to shake Arguello’s hand, never giving the man a moment of peace, yet never once did I see him show any sign of impatience, greeting each well-wisher with a smile and taking the time to treat each like an individual, even when a fan back in the ‘cheap seats’ would call out his name, he would turn, find that person in the crowd and then flash him the “love sign.”

I felt the most respectful thing I could do was to leave the man alone, so I made it a point not to ask to shake his hand or request an autograph; only occasionally did I make a comment about the action in front of us, as any fight fan might do, and even then he would always acknowledge my observation with a reply or a nod.

At the evening’s end, as we were all trying to exit, a woman approached Arguello and asked if he would mind posing for a picture with her young son. He of course replied yes, and as he stood next to the boy it became painfully obvious to all of us that the woman was ‘camera challenged’ and after several attempts couldn’t get the camera to work. Instead of walking on, it was Arguello who stepped forward and took the camera from the woman’s hand, looked it over, and reloaded the film correctly so the camera would work, (it was one of those old type cameras with a cartridge). Some guy who was standing next to me, watching as I was, who must have been as moved by the man’s behavior as I was, quipped: “Amazing, do you believe this guy’s patience’s, he’s even fixing the woman’s god damn camera for her.

As we continued towards the exit Arguello couldn’t take five steps before another hand would be pushed in front of him and yet he still continued to pause, smile and acknowledge every fan; he even kept turning around when someone in the distance would call his name.

For almost four straight hours I watched this man and never once did he make any fan that approached him, or called out his name, feel unappreciated; the man’s graciousness was amazing to behold.

Rest in peace, sir.

That's a great story. Arguello was treated very well by everyone because he was a very humble gentleman. He didn't think he was better than anyone.

Some athletes aren't treated that well because they're not so humble... Ken Norton wasn't treated particularly well because he had a big head.. He didn't even get along particularly well with his son Ken Jr.. Ali predicted Holmes would beat Norton just before their fight was nationally televised. Ali said, "The way people think I am - an egotistic jerk - which is not the real me.. but that's the way Ken Norton really is."

Norton came into the gym after the 3rd Ali fight and about 10 boxers were there.. Nobody acknowledged him or looked at him. He stood there for a while and then let out a chuckle and left.. I was always friendly with him and talked to him.. I pretended I didn't see him on that occasion.. I thought he won, but when he later asked me I said "I thought it was close." I didn't want to give him confirmation because I didn't think he was as good as he thought he was. That's way off the subject of Arguello, but he was the Mother Teresa of boxers. Norton was the Howard Cosell of boxers.

Kalan wrote:That's a great story. Arguello was treated very well by everyone because he was a very humble gentleman. He didn't think he was better than anyone.

Some athletes aren't treated that well because they're not so humble... Ken Norton wasn't treated particularly well because he had a big head.. He didn't even get along particularly well with his son Ken Jr.. Ali predicted Holmes would beat Norton just before their fight was nationally televised. Ali said, "The way people think I am - an egotistic jerk - which is not the real me.. but that's the way Ken Norton really is."

Norton came into the gym after the 3rd Ali fight and about 10 boxers were there.. Nobody acknowledged him or looked at him. He stood there for a while and then let out a chuckle and left.. I was always friendly with him and talked to him.. I pretended I didn't see him on that occasion.. I thought he won, but when he later asked me I said "I thought it was close." I didn't want to give him confirmation because I didn't think he was as good as he thought he was. That's way off the subject of Arguello, but he was the Mother Teresa of boxers. Norton was the Howard Cosell of boxers.

harsh words on Norton - I was unaware he was so disliked. - Ali's boasting always had a playful feel to it by the time we got into the seventies - early on though most Americans were traumatized by his behavior

Very nice post about one of my favorite fighters Arguello. I was relatively new to boxing forums when Arguello, Gatti and Vernon Forrest tragically passed within a week or two of each other and remember the deep sorrow and mourning of the boxing community at that time.

Many people were posting stories of personal experiences with Alexis. All stories mentioned his kindness and his smile. The man certainly had a beautiful soul.

Like all reports of the great Alexis Arguello, he had a great reputation as one of boxing's great ambassadors. A real gentleman inside and out of the ring with a lot of class. A great human being and champion.

Can't prove it, always felt he was murdered. But Alexis was definitely a class act. Always a great fighter, though I still feel he doesn't beat Kenty, Davis jr, Mamby, or prime Duran.

APerno wrote:

Kalan wrote:That's a great story. Arguello was treated very well by everyone because he was a very humble gentleman. He didn't think he was better than anyone.

Some athletes aren't treated that well because they're not so humble... Ken Norton wasn't treated particularly well because he had a big head.. He didn't even get along particularly well with his son Ken Jr.. Ali predicted Holmes would beat Norton just before their fight was nationally televised. Ali said, "The way people think I am - an egotistic jerk - which is not the real me.. but that's the way Ken Norton really is."

Norton came into the gym after the 3rd Ali fight and about 10 boxers were there.. Nobody acknowledged him or looked at him. He stood there for a while and then let out a chuckle and left.. I was always friendly with him and talked to him.. I pretended I didn't see him on that occasion.. I thought he won, but when he later asked me I said "I thought it was close." I didn't want to give him confirmation because I didn't think he was as good as he thought he was. That's way off the subject of Arguello, but he was the Mother Teresa of boxers. Norton was the Howard Cosell of boxers.

harsh words on Norton - I was unaware he was so disliked. - Ali's boasting always had a playful feel to it by the time we got into the seventies - early on though most Americans were traumatized by his behavior

He wasn't disliked at all. Ali and Frazier both liked him quite a bit. Never head anyone say a bad word about him.

Nile4000 wrote:Can't prove it, always felt he was murdered. But Alexis was definitely a class act. Always a great fighter, though I still feel he doesn't beat Kenty, Davis jr, Mamby, or prime Duran.

Are you being serious when you say that a fighter who clearly wasn't as as good would beat someone like Arguello? I have seen you do this before. Kenty, Davis, and Mamby beat Arguello? huh?

Ambling Alp II wrote:Never head anyone say a bad word about him.

Holmes did in his book.

Kalan wrote:That's a great story. Arguello was treated very well by everyone because he was a very humble gentleman. He didn't think he was better than anyone.

Some athletes aren't treated that well because they're not so humble... Ken Norton wasn't treated particularly well because he had a big head.. He didn't even get along particularly well with his son Ken Jr.. Ali predicted Holmes would beat Norton just before their fight was nationally televised. Ali said, "The way people think I am - an egotistic jerk - which is not the real me.. but that's the way Ken Norton really is."

Norton came into the gym after the 3rd Ali fight and about 10 boxers were there.. Nobody acknowledged him or looked at him. He stood there for a while and then let out a chuckle and left.. I was always friendly with him and talked to him.. I pretended I didn't see him on that occasion.. I thought he won, but when he later asked me I said "I thought it was close." I didn't want to give him confirmation because I didn't think he was as good as he thought he was. That's way off the subject of Arguello, but he was the Mother Teresa of boxers. Norton was the Howard Cosell of boxers.

I'm surprised that you don't post on the West Coast boxing thread Kalan, assuming that this gym was in L.A. There are a number of guys who were involved in boxing posting there, I imagine you know some of the same people.

And that's a great story about Arguello, pure class. I remember Jim Watt couldn't speak highly enough of him.

Ambling Alp II wrote:He wasn't disliked at all. Ali and Frazier both liked him quite a bit. Never head anyone say a bad word about him.

Holmes and Ali sure did...

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:Can't prove it, always felt he was murdered. But Alexis was definitely a class act. Always a great fighter, though I still feel he doesn't beat Kenty, Davis jr, Mamby, or prime Duran.

Are you being serious when you say that a fighter who clearly wasn't as as good would beat someone like Arguello? I have seen you do this before. Kenty, Davis, and Mamby beat Arguello? huh?

Don't think I would put Vilomar Fernandez on Alexis' level, but he beat Alexis. Kenty and Davis were just as tall, and had the skillset. Mamby had the experience and skillset. Alexis wasn't going to floor, or hurt Saoul.

Arguello wasn't a real slick boxer... That why Vilomar Fernandez beat him.. And he was pretty easy to hit actually... Duran would have killed the lad.

Kalan wrote:Arguello wasn't a real slick boxer... That why Vilomar Fernandez beat him.. And he was pretty easy to hit actually... Duran would have killed the lad.

It is actually a great thing they didn't meet then. Wonder why Ali and Holmes didn't like him.

Kalan wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:He wasn't disliked at all. Ali and Frazier both liked him quite a bit. Never head anyone say a bad word about him.

Holmes and Ali sure did...

??????? - really - why would they have an opinion - I am curious, what was it about the man they disliked?

Nile4000 wrote:

Kalan wrote:Arguello wasn't a real slick boxer... That why Vilomar Fernandez beat him.. And he was pretty easy to hit actually... Duran would have killed the lad.

It is actually a great thing they didn't meet then. Wonder why Ali and Holmes didn't like him.

Ali and Norton were friends. They liked each other.

Nile4000 wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:Can't prove it, always felt he was murdered. But Alexis was definitely a class act. Always a great fighter, though I still feel he doesn't beat Kenty, Davis jr, Mamby, or prime Duran.

Are you being serious when you say that a fighter who clearly wasn't as as good would beat someone like Arguello? I have seen you do this before. Kenty, Davis, and Mamby beat Arguello? huh?

Don't think I would put Vilomar Fernandez on Alexis' level, but he beat Alexis. Kenty and Davis were just as tall, and had the skillset. Mamby had the experience and skillset. Alexis wasn't going to floor, or hurt Saoul.

Do you really think Fernandez would beat Arguello again? I sure don't.

Arguello had a long career fighting quality opponents. Often he was fighting several times a year. He was human; he could lose on an off day to someone decent. However, he would beat Kent, Davis, Mamby, or Fernandez for that matter the vast majority of the time.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:

Kalan wrote:Arguello wasn't a real slick boxer... That why Vilomar Fernandez beat him.. And he was pretty easy to hit actually... Duran would have killed the lad.

It is actually a great thing they didn't meet then. Wonder why Ali and Holmes didn't like him.

Ali and Norton were friends. They liked each other.

They didn't like each other.. They were nice to each other and cordial to one another in public settings.. Aren't you nice to people you don't like??? You treat everybody generously and nicely even if you don't like them -- because you want people to think you're a nice guy and don't want anyone to think you're a jerk.. But Ali let his real feeling slip sometimes.. Before the Holmes-Norton fight Ali was interviewed on TV.. He predicted Holmes would win and ripped Norton, "You know how everyone thinks I'm an egotistical, conceited jerk? I'm not really like that in real life -- but that's the way Norton really is. He's really like that."

That's the absolute truth too -- Ali was being as honest as Hell. Ali was a really nice person and Norton was a jerk.. Everyone heard that... I was shocked that Ali would say such a thing about Norton on national television... That's not the kind of thing you say, but that was Ali being honest.