BoxRec

Here is a photo of brook at the Bizier weigh in.
Now here is a picture of him the other day just over a week out from GGG


Any extra weight Brook is carrying is clearly fat. This talk of Brook being the "bigger man" is undisputebly a marketing ploy by Matchroom to sell this fight as a decent contest.
None of that extra weight will do brook any good. It is likely to be a hindrance as his footwork becomes sluggish and he can't get his punches off like before.

Given in one of the photos he's clearly way more tense and the lighting is different you really can't tell.

Lighting and tensing up doesn't make that difference! Without even looking at his body the difference is even noticeable in his face.

He has gained zero, literally fecking nothing. He is carrying more bodyfat and is better hydrated. Arseholes.

Look I have said it before. I work with the best natural, drug tested and clean bodybuilders on the bloody planet. I also compete on the natural stage. We are all training totally to just gain muscle. No other goal, gain muscle. We lift fecking hard and heavy, use every piece of science available, we follow a diet accordingly with every supplement we should take, and we gain nearly nothing now. A trained adult man will hit a ceiling and future gains are microscopic, maybe the body composition will change but not weight by much. My mates include Heavyweight Champions of the world and various other world champions. I have travelled with the British team to three world championships and these guys are genetically gifted, they are the elite at muscle gaining and they cannot do it over a whole year. My best mate is a three time British Champion, 2 x World Champion, a WNBF Pro and he has gained about 1.5kg in three years and trust me, he is massively genetically gifted. His weight gain is mainly due to staying better hydrated too. So tell me, how the living fcuk can a boxer, doing a ton of bloody cardio able to do it in a matter of weeks?


IT CANNOT BE DONE!!! Anyone gaining a ton of muscle is on drugs, no doubt and anyone just gaining weight is just carrying more fat.

Exactly.

Did anyone actually believe that Brook is the bigger man anyway?

Boxerbeetle wrote:Did anyone actually believe that Brook is the bigger man anyway?

Sky are trying to convince the casuals he is. I seen a quote on the sky sports website where they say - Golovkin's team have "been forced to concede that brook will be the bigger man"
He will be the "heavier" man but there will only be one middleweight in the ring on Saturday night!

tobyh5 wrote:He has gained zero, literally fecking nothing. He is carrying more bodyfat and is better hydrated. Arseholes.

Look I have said it before. I work with the best natural, drug tested and clean bodybuilders on the bloody planet. I also compete on the natural stage. We are all training totally to just gain muscle. No other goal, gain muscle. We lift fecking hard and heavy, use every piece of science available, we follow a diet accordingly with every supplement we should take, and we gain nearly nothing now. A trained adult man will hit a ceiling and future gains are microscopic, maybe the body composition will change but not weight by much. My mates include Heavyweight Champions of the world and various other world champions. I have travelled with the British team to three world championships and these guys are genetically gifted, they are the elite at muscle gaining and they cannot do it over a whole year. My best mate is a three time British Champion, 2 x World Champion, a WNBF Pro and he has gained about 1.5kg in three years and trust me, he is massively genetically gifted. His weight gain is mainly due to staying better hydrated too. So tell me, how the living fcuk can a boxer, doing a ton of bloody cardio able to do it in a matter of weeks?


IT CANNOT BE DONE!!! Anyone gaining a ton of muscle is on drugs, no doubt and anyone just gaining weight is just carrying more fat.

I fully agree with you here. I have a family member who is quite tall and on the skinny side. Been training naturally in the gym and his work place (physical job) for 8 years and never really put a great deal of weight on. Then went on the sterdoids, fcuking ballooned in muscle to the extent that he practically doubled in size. This was a matter of around 7 or 8 months. No matter how much he trained naturally he just could not put on the weight in muscle, no matter how much protein shakes he drank. The steroids did it for him and cost him his job.

tobyh5 wrote:He has gained zero, literally fecking nothing. He is carrying more bodyfat and is better hydrated. Arseholes.

Look I have said it before. I work with the best natural, drug tested and clean bodybuilders on the bloody planet. I also compete on the natural stage. We are all training totally to just gain muscle. No other goal, gain muscle. We lift fecking hard and heavy, use every piece of science available, we follow a diet accordingly with every supplement we should take, and we gain nearly nothing now. A trained adult man will hit a ceiling and future gains are microscopic, maybe the body composition will change but not weight by much. My mates include Heavyweight Champions of the world and various other world champions. I have travelled with the British team to three world championships and these guys are genetically gifted, they are the elite at muscle gaining and they cannot do it over a whole year. My best mate is a three time British Champion, 2 x World Champion, a WNBF Pro and he has gained about 1.5kg in three years and trust me, he is massively genetically gifted. His weight gain is mainly due to staying better hydrated too. So tell me, how the living fcuk can a boxer, doing a ton of bloody cardio able to do it in a matter of weeks?


IT CANNOT BE DONE!!! Anyone gaining a ton of muscle is on drugs, no doubt and anyone just gaining weight is just carrying more fat.

It clearly not all muscle, but a major difference is bodybuilders are staring from very near as much as they can wheereas boxers often won't want t gain any a lot o th time to not go up a weight class, so the difference is they are going from not trying to put on muscle to trying to. Whereas bodybuilders have consistantly been trying to put on muscle.

BitPlayer wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:He has gained zero, literally fecking nothing. He is carrying more bodyfat and is better hydrated. Arseholes.

Look I have said it before. I work with the best natural, drug tested and clean bodybuilders on the bloody planet. I also compete on the natural stage. We are all training totally to just gain muscle. No other goal, gain muscle. We lift fecking hard and heavy, use every piece of science available, we follow a diet accordingly with every supplement we should take, and we gain nearly nothing now. A trained adult man will hit a ceiling and future gains are microscopic, maybe the body composition will change but not weight by much. My mates include Heavyweight Champions of the world and various other world champions. I have travelled with the British team to three world championships and these guys are genetically gifted, they are the elite at muscle gaining and they cannot do it over a whole year. My best mate is a three time British Champion, 2 x World Champion, a WNBF Pro and he has gained about 1.5kg in three years and trust me, he is massively genetically gifted. His weight gain is mainly due to staying better hydrated too. So tell me, how the living fcuk can a boxer, doing a ton of bloody cardio able to do it in a matter of weeks?


IT CANNOT BE DONE!!! Anyone gaining a ton of muscle is on drugs, no doubt and anyone just gaining weight is just carrying more fat.

It clearly not all muscle, but a major difference is bodybuilders are staring from very near as much as they can wheereas boxers often won't want t gain any a lot o th time to not go up a weight class, so the difference is they are going from not trying to put on muscle to trying to. Whereas bodybuilders have consistantly been trying to put on muscle.

With respect, nothing in that paragraph actually made a lot of sense or even made me think you know what you are talking about in the slightest. I am not arguing an unarguable point. What I know is fact and I have taken on board that tangible you are talking about but point one - Brook has muscle and shape to indicate he has used weights previously. Point two he has not been working out much with weights on this. Point three, he has been doing insane amounts of cardio obviously, even doing runs in an altitude tent. Point four. NO HUMAN BEING ON THE FECKING PLANET CAN MAKE THESE GAINS IN MUSCLE. Not even a newbie, no one in this short period of time. And anyway, the pictures show no muscle gain, just bodyfat. I have an eye for this. I may not know much in life, but I have an eye for this. FML mate, I do nothing but compete and go to fecking bodybuilding shows and analyse and discuss musculature of competitors. I sit and we judge inch by inch, every single tendon, fibre, muscle, shape, size, balance, condition, symmetry, mass. Its what I do.

tobyh5 wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:He has gained zero, literally fecking nothing. He is carrying more bodyfat and is better hydrated. Arseholes.

Look I have said it before. I work with the best natural, drug tested and clean bodybuilders on the bloody planet. I also compete on the natural stage. We are all training totally to just gain muscle. No other goal, gain muscle. We lift fecking hard and heavy, use every piece of science available, we follow a diet accordingly with every supplement we should take, and we gain nearly nothing now. A trained adult man will hit a ceiling and future gains are microscopic, maybe the body composition will change but not weight by much. My mates include Heavyweight Champions of the world and various other world champions. I have travelled with the British team to three world championships and these guys are genetically gifted, they are the elite at muscle gaining and they cannot do it over a whole year. My best mate is a three time British Champion, 2 x World Champion, a WNBF Pro and he has gained about 1.5kg in three years and trust me, he is massively genetically gifted. His weight gain is mainly due to staying better hydrated too. So tell me, how the living fcuk can a boxer, doing a ton of bloody cardio able to do it in a matter of weeks?


IT CANNOT BE DONE!!! Anyone gaining a ton of muscle is on drugs, no doubt and anyone just gaining weight is just carrying more fat.

It clearly not all muscle, but a major difference is bodybuilders are staring from very near as much as they can wheereas boxers often won't want t gain any a lot o th time to not go up a weight class, so the difference is they are going from not trying to put on muscle to trying to. Whereas bodybuilders have consistantly been trying to put on muscle.

With respect, nothing in that paragraph actually made a lot of sense or even made me think you know what you are talking about in the slightest. I am not arguing an unarguable point. What I know is fact and I have taken on board that tangible you are talking about but point one - Brook has muscle and shape to indicate he has used weights previously. Point two he has not been working out much with weights on this. Point three, he has been doing insane amounts of cardio obviously, even doing runs in an altitude tent. Point four. NO HUMAN BEING ON THE FECKING PLANET CAN MAKE THESE GAINS IN MUSCLE. Not even a newbie, no one in this short period of time. And anyway, the pictures show no muscle gain, just bodyfat. I have an eye for this. I may not know much in life, but I have an eye for this. FML mate, I do nothing but compete and go to fecking bodybuilding shows and analyse and discuss musculature of competitors. I sit and we judge inch by inch, every single tendon, fibre, muscle, shape, size, balance, condition, symmetry, mass. Its what I do.

Dominic Ingle looks very natural......

lefty wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: It clearly not all muscle, but a major difference is bodybuilders are staring from very near as much as they can wheereas boxers often won't want t gain any a lot o th time to not go up a weight class, so the difference is they are going from not trying to put on muscle to trying to. Whereas bodybuilders have consistantly been trying to put on muscle.

With respect, nothing in that paragraph actually made a lot of sense or even made me think you know what you are talking about in the slightest. I am not arguing an unarguable point. What I know is fact and I have taken on board that tangible you are talking about but point one - Brook has muscle and shape to indicate he has used weights previously. Point two he has not been working out much with weights on this. Point three, he has been doing insane amounts of cardio obviously, even doing runs in an altitude tent. Point four. NO HUMAN BEING ON THE FECKING PLANET CAN MAKE THESE GAINS IN MUSCLE. Not even a newbie, no one in this short period of time. And anyway, the pictures show no muscle gain, just bodyfat. I have an eye for this. I may not know much in life, but I have an eye for this. FML mate, I do nothing but compete and go to fecking bodybuilding shows and analyse and discuss musculature of competitors. I sit and we judge inch by inch, every single tendon, fibre, muscle, shape, size, balance, condition, symmetry, mass. Its what I do.

Dominic Ingle looks very natural......

You know, he could be, is not that big. Want to see the ceiling for naturals? Google a couple of my mates - Nigel St Lewis, Brian Whitacre or Richard Gozdecki.

I travelled to two world championships with a guy who boxed in that Ingle gym professionally as a heavyweight, a chap called Lloyd Stewart and he speaks very highly of the ingles and I must say that as Lloyd scares the shite out of me! Very intimidating chap.

tobyh5 wrote:

lefty wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:

With respect, nothing in that paragraph actually made a lot of sense or even made me think you know what you are talking about in the slightest. I am not arguing an unarguable point. What I know is fact and I have taken on board that tangible you are talking about but point one - Brook has muscle and shape to indicate he has used weights previously. Point two he has not been working out much with weights on this. Point three, he has been doing insane amounts of cardio obviously, even doing runs in an altitude tent. Point four. NO HUMAN BEING ON THE FECKING PLANET CAN MAKE THESE GAINS IN MUSCLE. Not even a newbie, no one in this short period of time. And anyway, the pictures show no muscle gain, just bodyfat. I have an eye for this. I may not know much in life, but I have an eye for this. FML mate, I do nothing but compete and go to fecking bodybuilding shows and analyse and discuss musculature of competitors. I sit and we judge inch by inch, every single tendon, fibre, muscle, shape, size, balance, condition, symmetry, mass. Its what I do.

Dominic Ingle looks very natural......

You know, he could be, is not that big. Want to see the ceiling for naturals? Google a couple of my mates - Nigel St Lewis, Brian Whitacre or Richard Gozdecki.

I travelled to two world championships with a guy who boxed in that Ingle gym professionally as a heavyweight, a chap called Lloyd Stewart and he speaks very highly of the ingles and I must say that as Lloyd scares the shite out of me! Very intimidating chap.

Fvck me, they are big.

Second picture is from 30 day weigh in - http://www.skysports.com/golovkin-vs-br ... 0531742/12. So you are comparing a photo of 147 to a photo of 176. Obviously that is not how 30 pound fat looks like.

The idea that Brook would put a fat detrimental to his performance, so that Eddie can sell few more ppv to the show that sold out in 10 minutes is ridiculous.

Brook is a natural super welter, which means he weighs no less then 160 lb on the fight night, perhaps much more. Gaining extra 10 pound muscle is not anything extraordinary. He will come 170 or higher an of course will not be as lean as when he drains down to 147 but will not carry excessive fat.

I do agree that extra weight, muscle or not is a problem for speed, flexibility an stamina. But he needs power to have a chance in this fight. I personally think that he is maximizing his winning chances by adding extra power here.

tobyh5 wrote:NO HUMAN BEING ON THE FECKING PLANET CAN MAKE THESE GAINS IN MUSCLE.

So what weight of muscle would you say a man of Brooks size and physique can gain in couple of months of dedicated training?

Didn't you do a cycle in the past, Toby? Or am I confusing you with someone else? If so, how long does it have to be before you're allowed to compete as a natural?

And my last question, how clean do you think most natties are? It's my understanding that epi balances out testosterone really well, hGHs are almost impossible to detect after therapy (or during?), and the IGFs fly under the radar? I've never been tempted to take anything because of organ growth and a bit of a family history of heart defects, but it seems like a huge struggle to compete without these days.

As for Brook, he looks way too dry in the first photo, and about 80 or 90% of where he could be in the second (doesn't look like he's tensing all that hard). Everything points to 154 as his best weight IMO.

Grilling Machine wrote:Didn't you do a cycle in the past, Toby? Or am I confusing you with someone else? If so, how long does it have to be before you're allowed to compete as a natural?

And my last question, how clean do you think most natties are? It's my understanding that epi balances out testosterone really well, hGHs are almost impossible to detect after therapy (or during?), and the IGFs fly under the radar? I've never been tempted to take anything because of organ growth and a bit of a family history of heart defects, but it seems like a huge struggle to compete without these days.

As for Brook, he looks way too dry in the first photo, and about 80 or 90% of where he could be in the second (doesn't look like he's tensing all that hard). Everything points to 154 as his best weight IMO.

Not me mate, I could not be more anti drugs if I tried. I am a proud member of the natural community. What sort of idiot puts their health at risk just to get a plastic trophy and a title that no one gives a shite about?

I think most natties are clean, I can only speak of my own experience and friends and they have ethics and morals and compete to push their own natural boundaries and take pride in how they work with knowledge and sweat and hard diet to get to their own personal high points. At the end of the day, natties have no need to take drugs as they are not banned in bodybuilding, a road to use them exists. We are the only sport that acknowledge and allow them and give two routes - go tested or untested. If you want to use them, go for those titles, if you want to be clean, stick with the natty shows.

Sure some arseholes do cheat and compete tested natty shows but have taken something but we try to catch them and use polygraphs. They exist but are not high in number

Boxerbeetle wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:

lefty wrote:Dominic Ingle looks very natural......

You know, he could be, is not that big. Want to see the ceiling for naturals? Google a couple of my mates - Nigel St Lewis, Brian Whitacre or Richard Gozdecki.

I travelled to two world championships with a guy who boxed in that Ingle gym professionally as a heavyweight, a chap called Lloyd Stewart and he speaks very highly of the ingles and I must say that as Lloyd scares the shite out of me! Very intimidating chap.

Fvck me, they are big.

But tiny compared to the roid monsters. Shows just how much difference taking PED's makes.

Clearly the majority of that extra weight is water.

The problem with that extra weight is that the longer the fight goes, the more it will tire him out. Remember Cleverly against Boomer 2? Clev looked like he was walking in treacle. He could not handle the extra weight.

Brook would have been better served aiming to come in about 155.

Either way a pummelling is on the cards. GGG`s big drama show and great for fans approach may see him extend it beyond the first half of the fight, but I get the feeling he could end it pretty much whenever he wanted.

How many times do we get sucked into the hype, the spiel when the underdog and his management make us believe he has a chance. I`m not falling for it this time. Kell will get smashed to bits.

Hope not of course, but he`ll need more than hope in this fight. Big drama show on the way.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

tobyh5 wrote:

You know, he could be, is not that big. Want to see the ceiling for naturals? Google a couple of my mates - Nigel St Lewis, Brian Whitacre or Richard Gozdecki.

I travelled to two world championships with a guy who boxed in that Ingle gym professionally as a heavyweight, a chap called Lloyd Stewart and he speaks very highly of the ingles and I must say that as Lloyd scares the shite out of me! Very intimidating chap.

Fvck me, they are big.

But tiny compared to the roid monsters. Shows just how much difference taking PED's makes.

Exactly that James. Rich Gozdecki is the biggest natural champion in the world at about 104-106kg stage weight (most conditioned heavies are late 80's and maybe touching into the 90's). He won the WNBF Professional Heavyweight and Overall titles which are the premier league of the sport worldwide and he is dwarfed by assisted chaps like any Mr Olympia esq competitor. His training partner is a NABBA Mr World and Universe and he is bigger than Rich too.

Jeez tobyh5 you do seem to get angry rather easily. Almost as though something beyond your control was making you fly into a rage

can someone remind me, what was Brooks usual weight on fight night when he was at 147 ?

MightyWarrior wrote:can someone remind me, what was Brooks usual weight on fight night when he was at 147 ?

I've heard Steve Bunce claim he comes in at about 170. He's only a few pounds heavier on that picture.

tobyh5 wrote:He has gained zero, literally fecking nothing. He is carrying more bodyfat and is better hydrated. Arseholes.

Look I have said it before. I work with the best natural, drug tested and clean bodybuilders on the bloody planet. I also compete on the natural stage. We are all training totally to just gain muscle. No other goal, gain muscle. We lift fecking hard and heavy, use every piece of science available, we follow a diet accordingly with every supplement we should take, and we gain nearly nothing now. A trained adult man will hit a ceiling and future gains are microscopic, maybe the body composition will change but not weight by much. My mates include Heavyweight Champions of the world and various other world champions. I have travelled with the British team to three world championships and these guys are genetically gifted, they are the elite at muscle gaining and they cannot do it over a whole year. My best mate is a three time British Champion, 2 x World Champion, a WNBF Pro and he has gained about 1.5kg in three years and trust me, he is massively genetically gifted. His weight gain is mainly due to staying better hydrated too. So tell me, how the living fcuk can a boxer, doing a ton of bloody cardio able to do it in a matter of weeks?


IT CANNOT BE DONE!!! Anyone gaining a ton of muscle is on drugs, no doubt and anyone just gaining weight is just carrying more fat.

Tyson Fury ?