BoxRec

Two different divisions yes.....and two different talent levels in my opinion.

I favor Marvin here.....I think he would outpoint Maxim

I also think this may have some impact and may add....or detract from our consideration of Robinson vs Leonard.

Leonards win over Marvin, and Robinsons loss to Maxim is simply an intriguing factor of this hypothetical.

I know that head to head observations may or may not be helpful when assessing someone's overall abilities, but they probably should not be ignored either.

I'd definitely go with Hagler to win a convincing decision here. Maxim is a tough son of a bitch so he ain't getting stopped I don't figure by the smaller Hagler, but the superior talent of Hagler would allow him to outbox Maxim and win a decisive UD.

BoxBuzz wrote:Two different divisions yes.....and two different talent levels in my opinion.

I favor Marvin here.....I think he would outpoint Maxim

I also think this may have some impact and may add....or detract from our consideration of Robinson vs Leonard.

Leonards win over Marvin, and Robinsons loss to Maxim is simply an intriguing factor of this hypothetical.

I know that head to head observations may or may not be helpful when assessing someone's overall abilities, but they probably should not be ignored either.

I agree with gilgamesh - Hagler by easy but uninspired UD - Hagler won't engage Maxim to the point of KO, too big/strong, (same problem Robinson ran into) but Maxim with no big punch and only fair speed won't be able to hurt Hagler and put him off his game - Hagler will be free to fight his fight all night long - Me thinks Hagler v. Conn is a better match, more intrigue. - Conn would be fast enough to counter Hagler's counters; slick boxers both and Conn would be willing to risk going after Hagler (he's 'Irish so why not be stupid')

Hagler would never take the fight.

So long as it's not 120 degrees in the ring, I like Marvin's chances to take a clear decision. Under normal conditions, the only way I see him blowing it, is if he get's over confident and start's going toe to toe with Maxim for long periods.

Fifteen pounds is a lot. I am undecided here. Boxing to me is about speed and weight classifications. Would Marvelous carry the speed he had at 160? We never will know. He never fought at light-heavyweight like the great Harry Greb.

Hagler got that granite chin and his class would be the deciding factor's in this one Maxim size advantage would not be a problem for Hagler he would have Maxim barely hanging on too see the final bell Hagler dominates Maxim and wins a easy un dec over 15 round's

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Hagler got that granite chin and his class would be the deciding factor's in this one Maxim size advantage would not be a problem for Hagler he would have Maxim barely hanging on too see the final bell Hagler dominates Maxim and wins a easy un dec over 15 round's

What about the weight discrepancy? Would Marvelous handle the weight?

I see this as a very tough proposition for Hagler. The size, strength, physical toughness, and the jab would factor in. I don't think Marv particularly wanted to fight Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum because of the size and height disparity.

Maxim easily went the distance with Ezzard Charles fighting for the Heavyweight Title and went the distance with him 5 X ... He also went the distance with Moore X 3... He beat Jimmy Bivins... Maxim also beat Bob Satterfield, who knocked out a 31-1 Cleveland Williams. When Maxim was way past it, losing 8 of his last 9 fights, he went the distance with rising young undefeated young Heavyweight Eddie Machen twice.. And giving up considerable weight he fought a close decision SD loss to Joe Walcott much earlier on.

elmersalsa wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Hagler got that granite chin and his class would be the deciding factor's in this one Maxim size advantage would not be a problem for Hagler he would have Maxim barely hanging on too see the final bell Hagler dominates Maxim and wins a easy un dec over 15 round's

What about the weight discrepancy? Would Marvelous handle the weight?

Class would see Hagler slowly chip away and be a mile in front on the card's at fight's end no matter what weight these two Champ's met at I agree that Boxing is about your fighting weight but when you have a HOF like Hagler who was almost impossible to hurt in front of you and in my view Hagler was a notch or two above Maxim as an all round fighter Maxim was good in his day and he might have troubled some other Middleweight Great's if they moved up to Light Heavy but not Marvin

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Hagler got that granite chin and his class would be the deciding factor's in this one Maxim size advantage would not be a problem for Hagler he would have Maxim barely hanging on too see the final bell Hagler dominates Maxim and wins a easy un dec over 15 round's

What about the weight discrepancy? Would Marvelous handle the weight?

Class would see Hagler slowly chip away and be a mile in front on the card's at fight's end no matter what weight these two Champ's met at I agree that Boxing is about your fighting weight but when you have a HOF like Hagler who was almost impossible to hurt in front of you and in my view Hagler was a notch or two above Maxim as an all round fighter Maxim was good in his day and he might have troubled some other Middleweight Great's if they moved up to Light Heavy but not Marvin

Oh, I see, Clive. I am just saying about a man going up 15 pounds to challenge a very good fighter in his own weight might be a little or big disadvantage. Marvelous was a great boxer. I just imagine how good he would look 15 pounds over

elmersalsa wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: What about the weight discrepancy? Would Marvelous handle the weight?

Class would see Hagler slowly chip away and be a mile in front on the card's at fight's end no matter what weight these two Champ's met at I agree that Boxing is about your fighting weight but when you have a HOF like Hagler who was almost impossible to hurt in front of you and in my view Hagler was a notch or two above Maxim as an all round fighter Maxim was good in his day and he might have troubled some other Middleweight Great's if they moved up to Light Heavy but not Marvin

Oh, I see, Clive. I am just saying about a man going up 15 pounds to challenge a very good fighter in his own weight might be a little or big disadvantage. Marvelous was a great boxer. I just imagine how good he would look 15 pounds over

We never seen Marvin in such a match up so it's difficult to say. Joey Maxim was no pushover. He fought at heavyweight also. I'd take Maxim over 15, maybe Hagler wins the rematches.

Im not a big Maxim fan but he was bigger, durable, and had that jab and grab style that I think would give Hagler fits. This would be a tough one for Hagler to pull of IMO.

Judging Marvelous going up to light-heavyweight is like judging the great Salvador Sanchez going up to lightweight to fight the great Alexis Arguello. Or the great Carlos Monzon going up in weight and challenge someone like Matthew Saad Muhammad or the great Bob Foster.

We will never know how those 3 would've fared going up to weight classifications out of their weight range.

golden oldie wrote:If the temperature in the ring was the same for Hagler as it was for SRR, the same result would ensue. Maxim wins an RTD.

If I may ask - why?

These two are genuinely tough men, but to me, Hagler was great and Maxim was not. However, I have to pick Maxim.

Marvelous had a tendency to get too cautious in some of his bigger fights. He held back and let Vito Antuofermo stretch their first match into a draw. Hagler showed so much respect for Roberto Duran that he nearly let that one slip away. He didn't start until the fifth round against Sugar Ray Leonard and lost the decision.

He showed no caution whatsoever in the third round against Thomas Hearns because he knew the fight was about to be stopped. The result speaks for itself.

I can't help but think that Hagler, fighting a bigger, crafty opponent in a foreign weight division, would restrain himself. Maxim by points.

Sounds like the altitude could affect things as well.

Tomasino wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

Class would see Hagler slowly chip away and be a mile in front on the card's at fight's end no matter what weight these two Champ's met at I agree that Boxing is about your fighting weight but when you have a HOF like Hagler who was almost impossible to hurt in front of you and in my view Hagler was a notch or two above Maxim as an all round fighter Maxim was good in his day and he might have troubled some other Middleweight Great's if they moved up to Light Heavy but not Marvin

Oh, I see, Clive. I am just saying about a man going up 15 pounds to challenge a very good fighter in his own weight might be a little or big disadvantage. Marvelous was a great boxer. I just imagine how good he would look 15 pounds over

We never seen Marvin in such a match up so it's difficult to say. Joey Maxim was no pushover. He fought at heavyweight also. I'd take Maxim over 15, maybe Hagler wins the rematches.

Thanks mate That makes sense

Heat or no heat, it's a very tough fight for Marvelous!

not even one of maxim's more difficult fights....

...i should add that i consider hagle an outstanding middleweight.

but...kalan breaks this down point by point and shows why maxim should win. let us not forget that maxim campaigned as a heavyweight for years until he fought t his best weight as a light heavy and won that title. he was kayoed just once in a long career. that was early in that career and was caught cold by the fearsome curtis shepard. thy fought again in a few weeks and maxim won the decision.

good chin, smart.....and stronger than he is given credit for.

After Maxim is awarded the decision, Hagler undoubtedly would give credit to Maxim, say that the best man won, and blame himself for coasting through several rounds.

Ambling Alp II wrote:After Maxim is awarded the decision, Hagler undoubtedly would give credit to Maxim, say that the best man won, and blame himself for coasting through several rounds.

Maxim wasn't concerned about the score cards versus Robinson... His plan was to make Robinson work hard and stop him late... He infuriated Robinson by telling him he couldn't punch and wasn't breaking popcorn...

"I could feel Robbie weakening in the 10th. Doc kept telling me to hold off and hold off and hold off. But in the 13th I knew he was physically spent. He had no strength in the clinches and I couldn't feel his punches. I set out to end it. I paced myself well and had enough gas to go 30 rounds so I wasn't worried about the weather. It wasn't a tough fight for me at all. It was nothing compared to my fights with Moore, Charles, Walcott, Bivins, Satterfield, Machen and other Heavyweights who punished me severely. Robinson was a great fighter, but a very slim and slender guy. He wasn't a Light Heavyweight. We would have made a mountain of money in the rematch, but Ray was done with the Light Heavyweight division after that. He stuck to fighting Middleweights the rest of his career."

Yeah right...