mullenman wrote:Don't let the paper titles fool you..
There is three world elite level brits.....
Frampton
Fury
Degale..
Crolla joins the list of he beats linares
I would be interested to see the criteria applied to this "elite" status.
Is it biased more towards ability, strength of resume or ranking?
The term "elite" is a wooly one, much like the term world class. And different people have very different concepts of what that entails.
Ability has to be a major factor to consider, but someone can often look better than they are based on their level of opposition
The level of competition they have faced has to be a major factor. But we then have to consider who they fought, when they fought them, how they performed and the weight and relative stage of their career the opponent was at. As well as various other factors such as injuries.
Rankings, well they have to be considered as they are there for a reason,. but they are as subjective as the above 2 factors and vary widely and are susceptible to opinion.
You're right, titles is not the qualifier to be considered "world class" let alone elite and your list there are arguably the top 3 we have in the UK just now. But are they elite? Is that an exhaustive list of our elite fighters? Where do we draw the line?
For me Frampton ticks every box. His talent is in little doubt and there are very few weaknesses in his game. He's been at world level since 2013 for me, he's beaten an actual world champion to win his first strap, he's unified and he's won a title at a second weight, again against a world class operator and naturally bigger fighter.
Fury? Talented, yes. Elite level talented? There are obvious holes in his game and things he could do better, but sometimes even the very best don't do everything perfectly. GGG doesn't move his head, Mayweather doesn't hit hard etc.
Resume? He fought a whole heap of second and third tier guys and made mistakes against almost every one. But he did the business and earned his shot.
He beat "the Man", so that has to give him kudos. Was the man past his best? I suppose he can only fight him when the opportunity presents itself. We'll find out a few more answers next month. For now he is the number 1 heavyweight (is he the best??? still lot's of fights to truly justify that.) but even being the number 1 man in your division doesn't qualify as "elite". Is the no1 Cruiserweight elite, is there an elite fighter at lightweight? Is there an elite fighter from flyweight down?
Fury, I'll give you, but there more than a few question marks
Degale?
He has the talent but does he have the desire and work ethic. He can look fantastic when he gives it 100%, but he never sustains that throughout a fight. He takes breaks and does just enough, can he maintain it when he needs to?
He is arguably (and arguably not) the best SMW, but only in the absence of Andre Ward. Andre Ward is an example of elite and he'd make mince meat of Degale.
Resume? Dirrell and Bute? That's not elite.
I'll wait until he faces C Smith or Ramires before I call him elite.
Brook, I would put on a par with Degale in terms of ability, with what looks to me to be more hunger and desire.
His Porter win, albeit narrow, was as good as Dirrell or Bute and his performance against GGG does nothing to dent his reputation.
He is still potentially the best welter out there, certainly has to be considered in the mix and I would put money on him to win a world title at 154 or 160 against someone who isn't Golovkin.
Elite, again not yet but has as strong a case as Degale.
Crolla? if he beats Linares?
Not quite. I still don't think he has proven he is the best British lightwieght, let alone elite.
Linares wouldn't qualify you as elite either
If DeGale is classed as elite then Brook should be as well.