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Hello Boxfans,

I need some reviews about the last 2 fights of Muhammad Ali, against Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick, was Ali really too weak to beat those two guys? And how those fights go on did Ali had his moments? Was he Knocked Out bij Holmes?I really did search material for his last two fights but never found something.

Was it true that Berbick some moments didn't want to hit Ali and keep himself in defence when he was in advantage on points?

Any comments would be great!

Thanks

Uppercut24 wrote:Hello Boxfans,

I need some reviews about the last 2 fights of Muhammad Ali, against Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick, was Ali really too weak to beat those two guys? And how those fights go on did Ali had his moments? Was he Knocked Out bij Holmes?I really did search material for his last two fights but never found something.

Was it true that Berbick some moments didn't want to hit Ali and keep himself in defence when he was in advantage on points?

Any comments would be great!

Thanks

Basically Larry didn't really want to mess up Ali, who had Parkinson's hurting him by that point, but nonetheless Ali retired on the stool after the 10th round if I remember correctly, though WBC rules said that meant it was an 11th round TKO in the books. Larry cried after the fight about messing up his hero, mentor and friend (though Larry was also trying to move himself outside of Ali's shadow).

The Berbick fight was really, really sad as well. Those last two fights wasn't even a shell of Ali, to be honest. Even Leon Spinks had a somewhat closer version of Ali in the ring when he won the belt off him.

Uppercut24 wrote:Hello Boxfans,

I need some reviews about the last 2 fights of Muhammad Ali, against Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick, was Ali really too weak to beat those two guys? And how those fights go on did Ali had his moments? Was he Knocked Out bij Holmes?I really did search material for his last two fights but never found something.

Was it true that Berbick some moments didn't want to hit Ali and keep himself in defence when he was in advantage on points?

Any comments would be great!

Thanks

Against Holmes Ali was completly weight-drained. He weighed 217 which was his lowest weight since the Foreman fight in 1974 and he came out and looked COMPLETLY lethargic. I mean, Ali could hardly throw punches. One of the saddest, most one-sided beatings you'll ever see. He was not knocked out or knocked down-Angelo Dundee stopped the fight after the 10th b/c Ali was just getting pounded and offering nothing in return.
The Berbick fight wasn't nearly as bad. Ali came into the fight at a pudgy but healthy 233 lbs, and was able to stick the jab and win 3-4 rounds. Berbick clearly won and pounded him to the body pretty bad, but it was not nearly as embarassing as the Holmes fight.
He still should've never come back though.

Uppercut24 wrote:Hello Boxfans,

I need some reviews about the last 2 fights of Muhammad Ali, against Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick, was Ali really too weak to beat those two guys? And how those fights go on did Ali had his moments? Was he Knocked Out bij Holmes?I really did search material for his last two fights but never found something.

Was it true that Berbick some moments didn't want to hit Ali and keep himself in defence when he was in advantage on points?

Any comments would be great!

Thanks

"I need some reviews about the last 2 fights of Muhammad Ali, against Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick, was Ali really too weak to beat those two guys? And how those fights go on did Ali had his moments? "'
The Ali-Berbick fight was fairly close. Holmes beat Ali badly. You have to remember, Ali was washed up and suffering from Parkinson's syndrome at the time of these last two fights.

"Was he Knocked Out bij Holmes?I really did search material for his last two fights but never found something."
Ali wasn't actually knocked out against Holmes. Holmes was years younger than Ali, who was way past his prime at 38, and Holmes was just giving him a brutally one-sided pummeling, so Ali's corner man Angelo Dundee stopped the fight after the 10th round.

The Ali-Holmes fight is sad. I wouldn't even suggest watching it if you haven't seen it. Holmes was clearly holding back trying not to beat up Muhammad too badly. He might have done him more of a favor just to KTFO him early and maybe that would have retired him for good, instead of fighting Berbick a year later.

The Berbick fight, Ali actually had some good rounds in. That was as much because Berbick sucked as anything Ali was doing, but considering the shape Ali was in... If you ask me, giving Ali the win would have been more justifiable than say, giving DLH a win over Felix Sturm. But thank God they didn't. I saw the fight once and scored it 96-94 for Berbick. I think the scores were 96-94 twice and 97-93--someone correct me if I'm wrong.

like hell larry held back. he tried like hell to knockout the greatest. larry was swinging for all he was worth. better watch the tape again. his hated for ali was not hard to see. larry did not carry ali*

warrior wrote:like hell larry held back. he tried like hell to knockout the greatest. larry was swinging for all he was worth. better watch the tape again. his hated for ali was not hard to see. larry did not carry ali*

Umm, yes he clearly did. Watch Holmes-Frazier orHolmes-Cooney to see what Holmes does when he wants to get a guy out of there. Ali was just lying against the ropes and Holmes was almost exclusively jabbing him . . . very little power punches.

I re-watched Tyson-Berbick again yesterday. Ali had his moments but he clearly lost. Berbick gave him a pretty good beating, but it was pretty pathetic that when Ali managed to show a fraction of his former self he was outboxing him. That Berbick was able to later upset Greg Page and Pinklin Thomas shows you the depth of the 80s compared to the 70s.

I've only seen clips of Ali Vs Holmes & Berbick and to be honest that enough for me. I believe one comment of the Holmes - Ali 'fight' was "It was like watching an autopsy on a man who was still alive". Ali was shot and should never have been in a Boxing ring when he fought Holmes, and the medication induced weight loss before the fight just made thing worse.

I believe Ali was hoping that if he beat Berbick he would have got a shot at John Tate for the WBA title.

Sure, Ali was shot when he 'fought' Holmes...but remember he got $9 million for the fight...I always kind of thought he was exploited by the Don King Machine...give him a lot of cash and watch him get badly beaten...I don't think Don King really liked Muhammad Ali as a person...only as a cash producer....and any real boxing fan knew Ali had no chance at age 38 against Holmes...King certainly knew it...

Sweet Scientist wrote:Sure, Ali was shot when he 'fought' Holmes...but remember he got $9 million for the fight...I always kind of thought he was exploited by the Don King Machine...give him a lot of cash and watch him get badly beaten...I don't think Don King really liked Muhammad Ali as a person...only as a cash producer....and any real boxing fan knew Ali had no chance at age 38 against Holmes...King certainly knew it...

I've read Ali saw little of that $9million, I think his manager took about a third of it.

warrior wrote:like hell larry held back. he tried like hell to knockout the greatest. larry was swinging for all he was worth. better watch the tape again. his hated for ali was not hard to see. larry did not carry ali*

Holmes did not hate Muhammad Ali. I don't know what you think you're seeing, but the only other time I ever saw him take it so easy on anyone was when he fought Butterbean.

Watch the Holmes-Cooney fight, then watch the Ali fight again, and tell me if Holmes was trying to knock Ali out. Holmes wanted to knock Cooney's head off, he was so angry about the lack of respect he'd been shown.

By 1980, Holmes didn't even want to fight Ali, but was pretty much in a position where he had to take the fight. He'd wanted to fight Ali in 1976 or 1977, but he had the same problem Hagler did. No one wanted him to win a title because they knew he'd keep it for years, on his terms.

If you don't believe me, ask Larry himself--he's got a message board on his website and answers just about any reasonable question.

Ask him why he wouldn't give Tim Witherspoon or Carl williams a rematch too while your at it. And ask him ahy he's the most overrated heavyweight champ ever. And ask him why he thinks he could even come close to the greatness of Rocky Marciano. :x :x :x

Cos he was a better boxer than Rocky M, who held his title for longer and fought better opponents!

The Scranton Assassin wrote:Ask him why he wouldn't give Tim Witherspoon or Carl williams a rematch too while your at it.

I can forgive Holmes for not giving Williams a rematch as Holmes was right at the end of his Championship reign and fading fast. But it has always bothered me that he never gave Witherspoon another shot. That was such a close fight an argument can be made for either fighter. It is a fight I've always stuggled to pick a winner, although edge towards Witherspoon or even a draw.