BoxRec

What do people think Joe Gallaghers merits are as a world class trainer some people try and say he is a world class train but from what I can tell his record at world level is 3-12-1.

I'm defining world level as someone who was in the consensus top 10 or would go on to be in the top 10 of the top independent rankings Ring Mag, ESPN, Boxing News ect

The way I see it he has wins versus: Perez(Crolla), Barosso(Crolla) & Kiko Martinez(Quigg)
Draw versus: Perez(Crolla) and
Defeats versus: Linares(Crolla), Frampton(Quigg), Canelo(L Smith), Groves/Ward/Abrahamx2(P Smith), Selby/Pedraza(S Smith), Sturm(Macklin), Rios/Mitchell(John Murray)

I know he has had good success at domestic level but I cant see how someone with a 19% win ratio at world level can be class a world class coach. (If anyone disputes his record then let me know)

You have to add some context in your equation, such as:

How many times were his fighters underdogs in the fights you've listed?

How much did he improve his fighters overall abilities from the time he started working with them?

Could other trainers have achieved more than he has with the same fighters?

Would limited funds have been a factor in his fighters success rate, such as: the calibre of the sparring partners, dietician, quality of the facilities, strength and conditioning coaches etc,?

What sort of amateur pedigree, professional experience and natural ability did his fighters have before he started working with them?

And the list goes on-and-on...

You can have Lewis Hamilton driving a Nissan Micra, but he probably won't be able to beat any old Tom, Dick or Harry in a drag race if they're driving a Bugatti Veyron!

Enlightened-One wrote:You have to add some context in your equation, such as:

How many times were his fighters underdogs in the fights you've listed?

How much did he improve his fighters overall abilities from the time he started working with them?

Could other trainers have achieved more than he has with the same fighters?

Would limited funds have been a factor in his fighters success rate, such as: the calibre of the sparring partners, dietician, quality of the facilities, strength and conditioning coaches etc,?

What sort of amateur pedigree, professional experience and natural ability did his fighters have before he started working with them?

And the list goes on-and-on...


You can have Lewis Hamilton driving a Nissan Micra, but he probably won't be able to beat any old Tom, Dick or Harry in a drag race if they're driving a Bugatti Veyron!

Of his 12 defeats half of them came in fights where his guy was either favourite or the odds were very close.
And as for your question about could other trainers had done more you have to consider the fact that he has been criticised for his tactics multiple occasions where his fighters have done the standard Gallagher wait 6 rounds to get started routine.

When all is said and done they guy claimed an I quote "id equate my gym to the kronk back in the day" so there is no real excuse for only winning 1 of every 5 at world level.

RuairiMcG12 wrote:Of his 12 defeats half of them came in fights where his guy was either favourite or the odds were very close... there is no real excuse for only winning 1 of every 5 at world level.

From the sixteen fights that you listed involving Joe Gallagher-trained fighters:
• They were the underdog eleven times
• They were on the losing end twelve times

Here's a detailed breakdown of the sixteen fights you listed (stats obtained from Oddchecker and BoxRec):

• 21/11/15 - Anthony Crolla vs. Darleys Perez - Result = W (Favourite)
• 18/07/15 - Anthony Crolla vs. Darleys Perez - Result = D (Underdog)
• 07/05/16 - Anthony Crolla vs. Ismael Barroso - Result = W (Underdog)
• 18/07/15 - Scott Quigg vs. Kiko Martinez - Result = W (Favourite)
• 27/02/16 - Scott Quigg vs. Carl Frampton - Result = L (Underdog)
• 24/09/16 - Anthony Crolla vs. Jorge Linares - Result = L (Favourite)
• 17/09/16 - Liam Smith vs. Canelo Alvarez - Result = L (Underdog)
• 20/06/15 - Paul Smith vs. Andre Ward - Result = L (Underdog)
• 21/02/15 - Paul Smith vs. Arthur Abraham - Result = L (Underdog)
• 27/09/14 - Paul Smith vs. Arthur Abraham - Result = L (Underdog)
• 05/11/11 - Paul Smith vs. George Groves - Result = L (Underdog)
• 17/09/11 - Stephen Smith vs. Lee Selby - Result = L (Favourite)
• 16/04/16 - Stephen Smith vs. Jose Pedraza - Result = L (Underdog)
• 25/06/11 - Matthew Macklin vs. Felix Sturm - Result = L (Underdog)
• 03/12/11 - John Murray vs. Brandon Rios - Result = L (Underdog)
• 16/07/11 - John Murray vs. Kevin Mitchell - Result = L (Favourite)

It seems pretty clear to me that Joe Gallagher’s fighters’ were expected to lose most of those fights… and you’re surprised that the eventual outcome of the vast majority of those contests met the bookies expectations? So you think that makes him a bad trainer?

Like I said before... You can have Lewis Hamilton driving a Nissan Micra, but he probably won't be able to beat any old Tom, Dick or Harry in a drag race if they're driving a Bugatti Veyron!

Enlightened-One wrote:

RuairiMcG12 wrote:Of his 12 defeats half of them came in fights where his guy was either favourite or the odds were very close... there is no real excuse for only winning 1 of every 5 at world level.

From the sixteen fights that you listed involving Joe Gallagher-trained fighters:
• They were the underdog eleven times
• They were on the losing end twelve times

Here's a detailed breakdown of the sixteen fights you listed (stats obtained from Oddchecker and BoxRec):

• 21/11/15 - Anthony Crolla vs. Darleys Perez - Result = W (Favourite)
• 18/07/15 - Anthony Crolla vs. Darleys Perez - Result = D (Underdog)
• 07/05/16 - Anthony Crolla vs. Ismael Barroso - Result = W (Underdog)
• 18/07/15 - Scott Quigg vs. Kiko Martinez - Result = W (Favourite)
• 27/02/16 - Scott Quigg vs. Carl Frampton - Result = L (Underdog)
• 24/09/16 - Anthony Crolla vs. Jorge Linares - Result = L (Favourite)
• 17/09/16 - Liam Smith vs. Canelo Alvarez - Result = L (Underdog)
• 20/06/15 - Paul Smith vs. Andre Ward - Result = L (Underdog)
• 21/02/15 - Paul Smith vs. Arthur Abraham - Result = L (Underdog)
• 27/09/14 - Paul Smith vs. Arthur Abraham - Result = L (Underdog)
• 05/11/11 - Paul Smith vs. George Groves - Result = L (Underdog)
• 17/09/11 - Stephen Smith vs. Lee Selby - Result = L (Favourite)
• 16/04/16 - Stephen Smith vs. Jose Pedraza - Result = L (Underdog)
• 25/06/11 - Matthew Macklin vs. Felix Sturm - Result = L (Underdog)
• 03/12/11 - John Murray vs. Brandon Rios - Result = L (Underdog)
• 16/07/11 - John Murray vs. Kevin Mitchell - Result = L (Favourite)

It seems pretty clear to me that Joe Gallagher’s fighters’ were expected to lose most of those fights… and you’re surprised that the eventual outcome of the vast majority of those contests met the bookies expectations? So you think that makes him a bad trainer?

Like I said before... You can have Lewis Hamilton driving a Nissan Micra, but he probably won't be able to beat any old Tom, Dick or Harry in a drag race if they're driving a Bugatti Veyron!

Your lewis Hamilton analogy doesn't fit his fighters were not disadvantaged in any of the fights, Crolla was fav against linares, smith against Selby, murray against Mitchell and with smith Pedraza, smith Abraham 2, and quigg Frampton the fights were regarded as close yet Joe Gallaghers tactics of waiting for the opponent to tire lost most of them.

RuairiMcG12 wrote:Your lewis Hamilton analogy doesn't fit his fighters were not disadvantaged in any of the fights, Crolla was fav against linares, smith against Selby, murray against Mitchell and with smith Pedraza, smith Abraham 2, and quigg Frampton the fights were regarded as close yet Joe Gallaghers tactics of waiting for the opponent to tire lost most of them.

If it’s your opinion that Joe Gallagher isn’t a good trainer, then that’s fine by me, as it’s your prerogative to hold that belief.

Your original premise though, based on the betting odds, is false.

That being said, I’m open to the idea that Gallagher does in fact deserve to receive a certain amount of criticism in a few of the bouts that you’ve mentioned. However, it’s just that I had to question the way you frame your argument, as it's based on a foundation of inaccuracy, intentional or otherwise.

I’m not going to disagree with your main claim though, just some of the misconceptions you've used to illustrate your point.

Enlightened-One wrote:

RuairiMcG12 wrote:Your lewis Hamilton analogy doesn't fit his fighters were not disadvantaged in any of the fights, Crolla was fav against linares, smith against Selby, murray against Mitchell and with smith Pedraza, smith Abraham 2, and quigg Frampton the fights were regarded as close yet Joe Gallaghers tactics of waiting for the opponent to tire lost most of them.

If it’s your opinion that Joe Gallagher isn’t a good trainer, then that’s fine by me, as it’s your prerogative to hold that belief.

Your original premise though, based on the betting odds, is false.

That being said, I’m open to the idea that Gallagher does in fact deserve to receive a certain amount of criticism in a few of the bouts that you’ve mentioned. However, it’s just that I had to question the way you frame your argument, as it's based on a foundation of inaccuracy, intentional or otherwise.

I’m not going to disagree with your main claim though, just some of the misconceptions you've used to illustrate your point.

Im not saying he is a bad trainer just that he isn't world class. Hes had a lot of success at domestic and euro level.

It is what it is ,, and thats Joe managing to get domestic level fighters , fights on the international scale , nothing more nothing less ,or it may well be the promoter managing to get these fights , Joe or promoter does'nt matter , facts are they are mostly just British / european level fighters , who will mostly fail on a world stage .

His fighters have probably reached there full potential , under him , i doubt very much if , any other trainer could of turned them into anything better